MO - Sherrill Levitt, 47, Suzie Streeter, 19, & Stacy McCall, 18, Springfield, 7 June 1992 #13

[Tuffgong]

in her car , never had kids did ya

Yeah, but mine would bring the bag inside the house where they are staying.

 

[asyousay]

Yeah, but mine would bring the bag inside the house where they are staying.

Stacey’s bag was inside the house that’s not disputed.

 

[reprisal]

Yeah, but mine would bring the bag inside the house where they are staying.

theres no dispute they got there , make up removal pads showed the girls got ready for bed then went missing ,

 

[cobalt sky]

Stacey’s bag was inside the house that’s not disputed.

Stacy's HANDBAG (purse) or like an OVERNIGHT bag? Because Stacy's own mother in a recent People Investigates episode stated that the only clothes she had with her were the ones she was wearing.

 

[Tuffgong]

in her car , never had kids did ya

The mother clearly said that all she had on was her panties and t-shirt, therefore she wouldn't have gone anywhere. That seems to imply she did not have a bag inside with her. Not disputing she went inside. But I have never heard or read she had a bag of clothes inside or outside, she brought a purse, period. Maybe her bag was in the car, maybe after taking off her makeup she realized she needed to brush her teeth. She goes outside to retrieve them. Doesn't come back in. Maybe that is when the globe is removed and bulb loosened. Suzie looks out blinds, where is she? Sherril goes outside with Suzie, now both are out of the house and vulnerable.

 

[cobalt sky]

Ok, so I am relatively new to this case and have been reading/watching as much information as I can about it over the past few days. Please allow me to vent for a moment...I find this case extremely frustrating, as even the most basic of "facts" have so many versions and inconsistencies it is driving me crazy! And making it hard for me to establish what actually did or didn't happen. I mean simple things, for example, when JK arrived at Sherrill & Suzie's home Sunday morning, was Cinnamon running free in the home, or closed up in the bathroom, or running around in the yard, or running around out in the street? I've seen all 4 versions! I don't really think the answer is important in this particular example, I'm just using it to illustrate how so many aspects of this case have so many different versions. Sometimes I don't know what I should or shouldn't believe. Regardless I'm now hooked on this case so I will continue to try to sort it all out .

 

[cobalt sky]

As I've already stated, I am new to the case and don't have the years of research and insight that many of you have. However, I was about Stacy and Suzie's age in 1992 so I do have personal experience as far as the culture of the time. In learning about this case, I just can't get past the actions of JK. In reading this thread, I'm glad to see that there are others who feel similarly.

We didn't have constant contact with each other back then like people do nowadays. It was impossible to have minute by minute accounts of everyone's lives, so we didn't expect that and we improvised in our own way. JK claims that Suzie and Stacy were last seen at her home at about 2:30am preparing to follow each other to Suzie's house to get some sleep; the plan was to meet back at JK's house in a few hours to then proceed to the water park. JK then woke up a few hours later and allegedly attempted to call Suzie's house several times but received no answer. Oddly, she never tries to call Stacy at her OWN home to see if she/they are there! Instead, she along with her boyfriend drives 15-20 minutes to Suzie's house at I believe around 11am-12noon. Barefoot. ???

She sees the girls' cars in the driveway along with Suzie's mother's car. She knocks on the door but nobody answers. Ok now, at this point, the NORMAL reaction would be for JK to assume that the girls got another ride to the water park and would meet up with her there at some point. Teenager's plans can change on a whim and a change of plans like this would not be out of the ordinary. Normally, JK would have then gone on to the water park with her boyfriend or other friends as planned, expecting to see the other girls there. Instead, she lets herself into the house uninvited! She then takes it upon herself to answer their phone when it rings! But doesn't use that phone to call Stacy's house to see if they are there, or if Stacy's mom knows where they are!

No, instead of assuming everything is fine and going to the waterpark, JK hangs out in the Springfield area throughout the early afternoon, then AGAIN drives BACK to Suzy's house! Why?!!! I can't stress enough how strange that is, when you add that SHE NEVER TRIES TO CONTACT STACY AT HER OWN HOME. It's hard for me not to wonder if she didn't call Stacy's home to look for her because she already knew she wasn't there.

If JK didn't think there was anything to worry about, why go BACK to the house later that afternoon? If she DID think there was something to worry about, why didn't she call Stacy's home? Instead she again walked through the house and even went through personal belongings in the house. Ridiculous!!! And I don't want to hear "oh, back in those days, it was normal..." NO it was NOT normal for an acquaintance to do something like that.

I'm not accusing JK of harming the 3 women, but I do have questions as to her bizarre actions. All imo.

 

[Tuffgong]

As I've already stated, I am new to the case and don't have the years of research and insight that many of you have. However, I was about Stacy and Suzie's age in 1992 so I do have personal experience as far as the culture of the time. In learning about this case, I just can't get past the actions of JK. In reading this thread, I'm glad to see that there are others who feel similarly.

We didn't have constant contact with each other back then like people do nowadays. It was impossible to have minute by minute accounts of everyone's lives, so we didn't expect that and we improvised in our own way. JK claims that Suzie and Stacy were last seen at her home at about 2:30am preparing to follow each other to Suzie's house to get some sleep; the plan was to meet back at JK's house in a few hours to then proceed to the water park. JK then woke up a few hours later and allegedly attempted to call Suzie's house several times but received no answer. Oddly, she never tries to call Stacy at her OWN home to see if she/they are there! Instead, she along with her boyfriend drives 15-20 minutes to Suzie's house at I believe around 11am-12noon. Barefoot. ???

She sees the girls' cars in the driveway along with Suzie's mother's car. She knocks on the door but nobody answers. Ok now, at this point, the NORMAL reaction would be for JK to assume that the girls got another ride to the water park and would meet up with her there at some point. Teenager's plans can change on a whim and a change of plans like this would not be out of the ordinary. Normally, JK would have then gone on to the water park with her boyfriend or other friends as planned, expecting to see the other girls there. Instead, she lets herself into the house uninvited! She then takes it upon herself to answer their phone when it rings! But doesn't use that phone to call Stacy's house to see if they are there, or if Stacy's mom knows where they are!

No, instead of assuming everything is fine and going to the waterpark, JK hangs out in the Springfield area throughout the early afternoon, then AGAIN drives BACK to Suzy's house! Why?!!! I can't stress enough how strange that is, when you add that SHE NEVER TRIES TO CONTACT STACY AT HER OWN HOME. It's hard for me not to wonder if she didn't call Stacy's home to look for her because she already knew she wasn't there.

If JK didn't think there was anything to worry about, why go BACK to the house later that afternoon? If she DID think there was something to worry about, why didn't she call Stacy's home? Instead she again walked through the house and even went through personal belongings in the house. Ridiculous!!! And I don't want to hear "oh, back in those days, it was normal..." NO it was NOT normal for an acquaintance to do something like that.

I'm not accusing JK of harming the 3 women, but I do have questions as to her bizarre actions. All imo.

I agree, it was very abnormal behavior. You would have thought maybe she leaves a message on the door, "where are yall?" But not enter a house twice. And I was always of the belief that JK was close to Stacey, more so than Suzie. Couple this with Suzie having not lived in that house very long, would JK even know where she lived? Of course, some have speculated she was there to clean up possible clues left behind....

 

[cobalt sky]

Another thing that drives me insane about this case. Why is it assumed that the girls actually made it back to Suzie's house that night at all? Damp cloths with makeup on them? (lol!) Purses found inside the home? (because it would be impossible for someone else to place them there, right?) Their cars in the driveway? (they could have just dropped the cars off there and together jumped in someone else's car to continue partying or whatever, or other people entirely could have driven the cars there). While it is likely the girls did make it back to Suzie's house and went inside, I don't see any concrete evidence at all that this occurred, and I think that is very important to consider.

To add to this, it was assumed that Sherrill was at home all evening into the early morning and was a chain smoker. If you have ever been a woman and a chain smoker, or lived with one, if she has settled down for the night, her cigarettes are NOT going to be in her purse. They will be on her nightstand, ready for that last evening smoke and that first morning smoke. So why were Sherrill's cigarettes in her purse?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Firstly, as many of you are aware the SPD sent two detectives and over 10,000 documents to the National center for missing and exploited children to percent this case in front of a 21 person panel of retired law enforcement, forensic professionals, Ex FBI agents, NCIC personal and others within LE.

This presentation took 2 days.

That panel of professionals reviewed the information and then compiled a report and sent that report to the SPD.

I believe part of that report was an overall assessment of the past performance of the SPD in their handling of this case.

I would like the SPD to honor my request, to publicly release nothing that could be considered sensitive material or that could damage the ongoing investigation, just the overall assessment of their performance, done by an independent outside agency (The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.)

However, my request was denied by both the SPD and the NCMEC.

That overall assessment needs to be made public.

As I've said before, how can we the people make an informed rational decision on the performance of the SPD without that report.

I believe that report would give us the information needed to request and/or demand FBI intervention in this case.

Secondly, I rarely talk about this case, it is very painful and extremely frustrating.
The last time I spoke with a Springfield Police department detective was in 2012.

At that time Sergeant Allen Neal meet me at my favorite restaurant for a tasty steak lunch, we spoke for about 4 hours. I found him to be professional, engaging, genuine and limitedly informative.

That meeting was the last time I spoke to anyone at Springfield Police department that would have been 7 years ago

I believe Sergeant Alan Neal retired in 2016.. as such we have reached one more sad milestone, he being the last detective that was working at the SPD during the abductions and initial investigation.

I have always been and continue to be available to anyone at the SPD.

Many years ago, when cheif Williams was hired, I became quite hopeful that he would be less political and more active in helping resolve our case, he made a pretty good first impression and it's all been downhill since then, he talks about transparency but that has not equated to any real transparency. his peacock presentation and politics will one day be rewarded with a gold watch paid for by the people of Springfield. Our feelings for each other our mutual.

As most people may understand as far as I'm concerned the SPD has one job, find out what happened to my family and Stacy, they have been unsuccessful for over 27 years it is well past time for transparency and a puplic evaluation of their failure.

I am rereading this thread from the beginning. Bartt Streeter lays out the facts very clearly and logically. Strongly suggest everyone avail themselves of his excellent summary. I would agree with him on 100% in his conclusions especially transparency.

I would add one other thing I know from personal experience. I contacted the Springfield News-Leader about 12 years ago. I was put in touch with the one reporter who was assigned this case. He told me directly that the SPD would discuss any other case they were investigating. But then what he told me I found utterly astounding. He said the police REFUSED to discuss this one case.

 

[cobalt sky]

I agree, it was very abnormal behavior. You would have thought maybe she leaves a message on the door, "where are yall?" But not enter a house twice. And I was always of the belief that JK was close to Stacey, more so than Suzie. Couple this with Suzie having not lived in that house very long, would JK even know where she lived? Of course, some have speculated she was there to clean up possible clues left behind....

BBM. Well, as they say, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....

A lot is made of the obscene phone calls, which also gets on my nerves. At that time, literally every household that had a relatively attractive female living there received these types of calls. Unless a threat was made, we rolled our eyes and hung up. And when call block became available, we used it. Same as when women today receive unwanted anonymous d*ck picks, they delete and block. What's more important to me is the timing of these calls. They just so happened when JK was there in the house. Which makes me wonder, was someone watching the house from a nearby residence or business and could see she was there? Or... was JK there to check on the house for someone, and they were calling to get a report from her? But she said that it was an obscene caller to cover? We don't know what was on the "strange" message that Stacy's mom heard and inadvertently deleted that day, but LE seems to think that it contained important clues. Could the message left have been some sort of message or threat towards JK? I think it's odd that STacy's mom "doesn't remember" the details of the call, but I'm pretty confident she does and has been told to keep quiet about it. IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

I am rereading this thread from the beginning. Bartt Streeter lays out the facts very clearly and logically. Strongly suggest everyone avail themselves of his excellent summary. I would agree with him on 100% in his conclusions especially transparency.

I would add one other thing I know from personal experience. I contacted the Springfield News-Leader about 12 years ago. I was put in touch with the one reporter who was assigned this case. He told me directly that the SPD would discuss any other case they were investigating. But then what he told me I found utterly astounding. He said the police REFUSED to discuss this one case.

BBM. If I were LE and realized that I had been duped by a bunch of kids literally barely out of high school I would do everything in my power to suppress transparency and avoid public humiliation, or even possibly legal repercussions, too. A lot of lives were turned upside down over this case, and I'm suspicious that this case was used to go after suspects for other crimes (or personal vendettas) that they knew were likely not related to the 3MW at all. Kind of like in the Jayme Closs case, and even Delphi.

 

[cobalt sky]

One more thing. People talk like it would take some genius mastermind to pull off this crime but I really don't think it would. Young people have proven to be able to kill, hide the evidence, and get away with it for long periods of time while LE scramble about, rounding up the usual suspects.

For example, the Bernadette Protti case. She was a teenager I believe in the 9th or 10th grade. A religious girl and perfect student, never in trouble. She stabbed her friend to death allegedly over a sleight, and if a neighbor had not seen her at the crime scene and able to give a description of her as a young female, right now still today we would all be discussing every evil male con, excon, sex offender, etc. within 500 miles of the crime scene. Because without that eyewitness everyone would have assumed it was a crazed male stalker that killed her. Not the perfect angel concerned friend who cried at her funeral.

 

[reprisal]

As I've already stated, I am new to the case and don't have the years of research and insight that many of you have. However, I was about Stacy and Suzie's age in 1992 so I do have personal experience as far as the culture of the time. In learning about this case, I just can't get past the actions of JK. In reading this thread, I'm glad to see that there are others who feel similarly.

We didn't have constant contact with each other back then like people do nowadays. It was impossible to have minute by minute accounts of everyone's lives, so we didn't expect that and we improvised in our own way. JK claims that Suzie and Stacy were last seen at her home at about 2:30am preparing to follow each other to Suzie's house to get some sleep; the plan was to meet back at JK's house in a few hours to then proceed to the water park. JK then woke up a few hours later and allegedly attempted to call Suzie's house several times but received no answer. Oddly, she never tries to call Stacy at her OWN home to see if she/they are there! Instead, she along with her boyfriend drives 15-20 minutes to Suzie's house at I believe around 11am-12noon. Barefoot. ???

She sees the girls' cars in the driveway along with Suzie's mother's car. She knocks on the door but nobody answers. Ok now, at this point, the NORMAL reaction would be for JK to assume that the girls got another ride to the water park and would meet up with her there at some point. Teenager's plans can change on a whim and a change of plans like this would not be out of the ordinary. Normally, JK would have then gone on to the water park with her boyfriend or other friends as planned, expecting to see the other girls there. Instead, she lets herself into the house uninvited! She then takes it upon herself to answer their phone when it rings! But doesn't use that phone to call Stacy's house to see if they are there, or if Stacy's mom knows where they are!

No, instead of assuming everything is fine and going to the waterpark, JK hangs out in the Springfield area throughout the early afternoon, then AGAIN drives BACK to Suzy's house! Why?!!! I can't stress enough how strange that is, when you add that SHE NEVER TRIES TO CONTACT STACY AT HER OWN HOME. It's hard for me not to wonder if she didn't call Stacy's home to look for her because she already knew she wasn't there.

If JK didn't think there was anything to worry about, why go BACK to the house later that afternoon? If she DID think there was something to worry about, why didn't she call Stacy's home? Instead she again walked through the house and even went through personal belongings in the house. Ridiculous!!! And I don't want to hear "oh, back in those days, it was normal..." NO it was NOT normal for an acquaintance to do something like that.

I'm not accusing JK of harming the 3 women, but I do have questions as to her bizarre actions. All imo.

: 15668048, member: 78169"]As I've already stated, I am new to the case and don't have the years of research and insight that many of you have. However, I was about Stacy and Suzie's age in 1992 so I do have personal experience as far as the culture of the time. In learning about this case, I just can't get past the actions of JK. In reading this thread, I'm glad to see that there are others who feel similarly.

We didn't have constant contact with each other back then like people do nowadays. It was impossible to have minute by minute accounts of everyone's lives, so we didn't expect that and we improvised in our own way. JK claims that Suzie and Stacy were last seen at her home at about 2:30am preparing to follow each other to Suzie's house to get some sleep; the plan was to meet back at JK's house in a few hours to then proceed to the water park. JK then woke up a few hours later and allegedly attempted to call Suzie's house several times but received no answer. Oddly, she never tries to call Stacy at her OWN home to see if she/they are there! Instead, she along with her boyfriend drives 15-20 minutes to Suzie's house at I believe around 11am-12noon. Barefoot. ???

She sees the girls' cars in the driveway along with Suzie's mother's car. She knocks on the door but nobody answers. Ok now, at this point, the NORMAL reaction would be for JK to assume that the girls got another ride to the water park and would meet up with her there at some point. Teenager's plans can change on a whim and a change of plans like this would not be out of the ordinary. Normally, JK would have then gone on to the water park with her boyfriend or other friends as planned, expecting to see the other girls there. Instead, she lets herself into the house uninvited! She then takes it upon herself to answer their phone when it rings! But doesn't use that phone to call Stacy's house to see if they are there, or if Stacy's mom knows where they are!

No, instead of assuming everything is fine and going to the waterpark, JK hangs out in the Springfield area throughout the early afternoon, then AGAIN drives BACK to Suzy's house! Why?!!! I can't stress enough how strange that is, when you add that SHE NEVER TRIES TO CONTACT STACY AT HER OWN HOME. It's hard for me not to wonder if she didn't call Stacy's home to look for her because she already knew she wasn't there.

If JK didn't think there was anything to worry about, why go BACK to the house later that afternoon? If she DID think there was something to worry about, why didn't she call Stacy's home? Instead she again walked through the house and even went through personal belongings in the house. Ridiculous!!! And I don't want to hear "oh, back in those days, it was normal..." NO it was NOT normal for an acquaintance to do something like that.

I'm not accusing JK of harming the 3 women, but I do have questions as to her bizarre actions. All imo.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nadal]

One more thing. People talk like it would take some genius mastermind to pull off this crime but I really don't think it would. Young people have proven to be able to kill, hide the evidence, and get away with it for long periods of time while LE scramble about, rounding up the usual suspects.

For example, the Bernadette Protti case. She was a teenager I believe in the 9th or 10th grade. A religious girl and perfect student, never in trouble. She stabbed her friend to death allegedly over a sleight, and if a neighbor had not seen her at the crime scene and able to give a description of her as a young female, right now still today we would all be discussing every evil male con, excon, sex offender, etc. within 500 miles of the crime scene. Because without that eyewitness everyone would have assumed it was a crazed male stalker that killed her. Not the perfect angel concerned friend who cried at her funeral.

Never heard of that case but just read about it and IMO that's not a good example of a teenager being capable of getting away with a crime as she did absolutely everything wrong. She became a suspect from her first interview and not just because of a neighbour seeing them but because she actually followed the neighbours car then killed Kirsten as soon as she caught up with her which the neighbour witnessed and she went to the neighbours home while she was planning on killing her, she was basically begging to be witnessed. Not to mention Kirsten told him and his wife earlier that she had been arguing with her friend, and she said during the interview that the killer sounds like her and asked what would happen to them when they are caught. They knew what car the killer drove, height, hair colour, the fact that she was Kirsten's friend, everything. Seems like bad or at least slow policework is the only reason she wasn't caught right away and because she passed a polygraph and they initially couldn't disprove her alibi. She didn't hide any evidence, she actually made it absurdly obvious that it was her, plus she only got away with it for six months that's not long as far as these things go. Even without her being seen they would have suspected a classmate since Kirsten told her neighbours that she had just had a fight with a friend.

Anyway, not really disputing the idea that JK could've been involved (although i personally don't think she was) i just don't think that example works.

 

[cobalt sky]

Never heard of that case but just read about it and IMO that's not a good example of a teenager being capable of getting away with a crime as she did absolutely everything wrong. She became a suspect from her first interview and not just because of a neighbour seeing them but because she actually followed the neighbours car then killed Kirsten as soon as she caught up with her which the neighbour witnessed and she went to the neighbours home while she was planning on killing her, she was basically begging to be witnessed. Not to mention Kirsten told him and his wife earlier that she had been arguing with her friend, and she said during the interview that the killer sounds like her and asked what would happen to them when they are caught. They knew what car the killer drove, height, hair colour, the fact that she was Kirsten's friend, everything. Seems like bad or at least slow policework is the only reason she wasn't caught right away and because she passed a polygraph and they initially couldn't disprove her alibi. She didn't hide any evidence, she actually made it absurdly obvious that it was her, plus she only got away with it for six months that's not long as far as these things go. Even without her being seen they would have suspected a classmate since Kirsten told her neighbours that she had just had a fight with a friend.

Anyway, not really disputing the idea that JK could've been involved (although i personally don't think she was) i just don't think that example works.

You're right, Bernadette did a lot of things wrong. She wasn't a savvy criminal. Despite that, she passed a friggin polygraph (!!!) and 6 months after the murder she was still walking free. Sorry but that is a LONG TIME for a high school sophomore to deceive LE! And remember, LE didn't didn't actually solve that case and arrest her. Bernadette turned herself in/confessed!

Now, imagine if she had been just a bit cleaner in her execution of the crime, avoided witnesses and was a bit savvier after the fact...

 

[cherrymeg]

steve garrison

Is that the same Sten Garrison that is linked to this case and rape? I found an article with that picture and I didn't want to post it if it was the wrong guy.

 

[cherrymeg]

Another thing that drives me insane about this case. Why is it assumed that the girls actually made it back to Suzie's house that night at all? Damp cloths with makeup on them? (lol!) Purses found inside the home? (because it would be impossible for someone else to place them there, right?) Their cars in the driveway? (they could have just dropped the cars off there and together jumped in someone else's car to continue partying or whatever, or other people entirely could have driven the cars there). While it is likely the girls did make it back to Suzie's house and went inside, I don't see any concrete evidence at all that this occurred, and I think that is very important to consider.

To add to this, it was assumed that Sherrill was at home all evening into the early morning and was a chain smoker. If you have ever been a woman and a chain smoker, or lived with one, if she has settled down for the night, her cigarettes are NOT going to be in her purse. They will be on her nightstand, ready for that last evening smoke and that first morning smoke. So why were Sherrill's cigarettes in her purse?

Did they smoke in the house? Either way Sherrill leaving cigarettes in a purse that was by the front door when she possibly expected her daughter and friends to come over is weird. I've lived with chainsmokers and have always been surprised at their dedication when they have to go outside in the middle of winter to smoke. They always have cigarettes somewhere near them.

 

[cherrymeg]

Thanks for answering! It's good to find a woman here I can discuss with about details or "female" things. For instance: the girls were going to spend the night at a hotel first, and later at someone else´s house, (Kirby, Joy, Suzie,etc) and then they would go to the waterpark in the morning . In one of the documentaries, Janis McCall says that she found stacy's shorts and that she thought this was odd because that meant her daugther went out in underwear (a police officer said that she might have borrowed sth from Suzie but McCall answered it woudn´t fit her). Now, was Stacy planning to go to the water park with that pair of shorts that she was wearing at night and underwear or did she have a bag with a swimsuit? I haven´t heard/read if Stacy had a bag with swimsuits/nightwear... It sounds strange to me. When you go to your friend's house, you certainly take with you a bag with clothes, make up, etc. Another question, I´ve read Sherrill had 800 USd in her purse, is 800 usd a considerable amount of money to have in a purse in the usa at that time (or any other time?). I mean, would you go out for a walk with 800 Usd or would you keep that amount in a safe place at home? What I´m asking may sound stupid and completely irrelevant, but still I need to know.

Stacy was supposed to sleep and Janelle Kirby's house that night or a hotel near the water park she planned to go to the next day. Teenagers change plans they also don't tell parents everything. What was Stacy going to wear? Both her and Suzie had cars and seemed prepared to stay overnight somewhere. If they anything in the cars that's weird. Most girls would have had a change of clothes, a bathing suit, makeup, and essensentials like deodorant, a razor and a toothbrush.
If Sherrill's purse had been in her room I would think the money was possibly tips from her job, or cash she was getting together to take to the bank or pay her bills. It could also have been graduation money that she planned to deposit somewhere the next day.

 

[Alfonsina Storni]

What do people believe was staged about the crime scene?

I believe that the purses, Stacy´s shorts and the beds were staged to make people believe the girls arrived to Sherrill´s house. Plus, the scene was definetely contaminated as "friends" cleaned up the house. The best way to corrupt a crime is scene is to let people come and go as they want.

Is there a list of names of everybody who went into that home that day?

Janelle Kirby, Mike Henson, Stewart and Janice MCall and their daughters (Meredith and Lisa); Adina Ruthfrauff (a friend) and her mother Darlene; and Janelle's parents, Randy and Kathy Kirby.

I copy-pasted the list from the book called "The Missin Three by Warren, D.