Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

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IMO, based on many many wrecks I've personally pulled people out of or tarped over the windows of, if she had rolled her car down an embankment into the river, there would be damage to the ground (unless it was completely frozen solid, but even then, you can usually see something) and there would be obvious glass and detritus like the plastic off of the headlights or side view mirrors snapped off. I have never seen a car roll without leaving a good amount of stuff behind. That being said, the damage to her car DOES look to me like what you might find in a roll over when the area above the windshield hits something like a guard rail...or large rocks underwater if the current rolled it. All my own opinion.
 
I think this is just a case of car hits ice, flips a few times and ends up in the river.

Jmo
I agree.

Cars pack more momentum than you think they would. I skidded like that once. I wound up tail first in a cow pasture 800 feet from the road, through a foot of snow. Fortunately there was no steep bank or river to land in and nothing caused me to flip or roll. I was going maybe 15mph when I lost control.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
IMO, based on many many wrecks I've personally pulled people out of or tarped over the windows of, if she had rolled her car down an embankment into the river, there would be damage to the ground (unless it was completely frozen solid, but even then, you can usually see something) and there would be obvious glass and detritus like the plastic off of the headlights or side view mirrors snapped off. I have never seen a car roll without leaving a good amount of stuff behind. That being said, the damage to her car DOES look to me like what you might find in a roll over when the area above the windshield hits something like a guard rail...or large rocks underwater if the current rolled it. All my own opinion.

Glad you brought this up. I was concerned yesterday when they were all over the slope right in front of where the cars were found. I hope they photographed & searched it thoroughly before they pulled the vehicles out.
 
You did a good job here. I did my analysis independent of your investigation and we came to the same conclusion (although mine was a narrower subset of yours).

If you solve a case, your credibility goes up and thus, your opinion will carry more weight in subsequent investigations. If I was a LE investigator, I would follow those here on WS who have a strong track record of solving cases.

I do give more weight and credence to members with strong instincts / sleuthing skills, as well as to veteran members. There are many intelligent, insightful souls here, whom I admire, and who take cases seriously, gravely and soberly. WS is a tough place to hang out, the darkness we find here often takes it's toll on my mind. I took a brief hiatus recently, just popping in for info on the last 2 cases that weigh heavy on me: Danielle Stislicki ... and Toni. A hiatus / mental health break from time to time is needful for me, otherwise, I lose sleep, and anxiety creeps into my life due to the heaviness and endlessness of the cases here. It's a delicate balance. For me, at least.
 
Question -
Why wasn't her car taken by flatbed?
Would it have made a difference at this point as to the potential evidence?
I haven't been following this case so I'm unsure if this had already been asked

Par for the course with this police department. They could feasibly loose valuable evidence towing the car the way they did. Not to mention how upsetting it could be to her family and friends to see this on TV. The car should have been put on a flatbed truck and covered. All my opinion of course.
 
picture of the SUV also pulled from the water:

C6lPnNDU0AA7X9y.jpg


https://twitter.com/Jhelmuth

I can't really tell from this pic - is the SUV damaged as much as Toni's car?
 
Hayley Howard is another case that made absolutely no sense, yet she was in the water. :(
 
I feel like this is going to be ruled an accident, whether it is or not...


Depends on what they rule as a cause of death. If she drowned..........probably an accident. If she's got a bullet hole in her head...........not so much.
 
1) Psychics (pfft) the first thing they say is the xyz will be found "near" a body of water and or field.

2) If and i emphasize "if" Toni did have some sort of breakdown, and has a history of mental illness. This may explain her Mothers past tense language. She may have feared something like this happening.

3) If that area was searched previously and they missed it. And if she did go down in the area she was located, and if it was an accident, wouldn't the grass be torn up has the car flipped. Even if the ground (grass) was icy there would still be gauge marks as it flipped.

4) Was the car still in gear.

5) If it was nefarious and she was pushed down there. The car would not be in gear and there would not be any marks in the ground.

6) The autopsy will reveal what happened.
 
I don't think this forum or Toni's new friends would necessarily know about any mental health issues. And how do we know they didn't? Nobody ever wants to admit these things. Toni wrote that she lost all her friends a few years ago, for various reasons, and I have always wondered what those reasons might be.

According to this tweet, Toni did experience depression.

[video=twitter;731231321918345216]https://twitter.com/Tonianderson2/status/731231321918345216[/video]

I don't think that tweet indicates any mental illness or depression. I think most people say they are depressed once in a while and whatnot. So it doesn't really mean much to me.

Looking at the damage to the car, I'd say the vehicle was airborne for some distance, then the weight of the engine caused it to pivot upside down before it hit the water. We've all seen the steep embankment and rocks along that stretch of river, there's no way a low profile vehicle like hers could have driven down that and into the water without sustaining any front end damage. The car would've been traveling at a very high rate of speed to accomplish this feat, probably around 50-60 miles per hour.

damage to car here: https://www.facebook.com/kmbc9/videos/10154932647111221/

You can pause the video by clicking on the screen as it plays.

If the car was pushed over the edge and rolled down, do you think front end damage would have occurred in that case?
 
Question -
Why wasn't her car taken by flatbed?
Would it have made a difference at this point as to the potential evidence?
I haven't been following this case so I'm unsure if this had already been asked

Yeah I wondered that one as well. :thinking:
 
Wow. It sure seems people can interpret things differently...

I so no collision damage to that vehicle whatsoever. The front bumper is intact. It was rolled into the water, or driven in at low speed. When a vehicle first goes into the water, it floats. It is like a leaky boat. Eventually it sinks and ended up where it was. It is pulled out of the water upside down, so it looks like the current turned it over. Damage to the vehicle is because it was upside down.

It is my opinion that the vehicle was purposely driven into the water at low speed. I am 100% convinced this was a suicide.
 
I am strongly leaning towards suicide as well. This is how my cousin committed suicide a few years back. So sad.
 
First, I think saying you are unaware of why she was on that road would be a fairer assessment than "There could be only one reason for her to be there"

I haven't took a look at the road myself, and I will, but I am not sure how you could rule out a drug deal. A drug deal can theoretically happen anywhere, and typically a place you don't expect it might be a good place to do one. ya know?

In terms of why I don't find the schizophrenia theory as likely. it's because I know several people who have schizophrenia. Two of them had it develop in their early 20's, one of them in their late teens. I know some people believe that it is triggered by drug use, and in my own personal experience with two of those individuals that seemed to be the case. one wanted to do shrooms with her boyfriend and then after that one time, she had full blown schizophrenia symptoms. She developed paranoia that increased as time went on. It was not in any way subtle imo.


The teenager didn't have any drug trigger that I know of, but the condition ran in his family. His paranoia started out more subtle with things such as thinking people were poisoning him at restaurants. But, if you were around him, you wouldn't right away know he was schizophrenic, unless you engaged in conversation, then it was very clear quickly that something was wrong as he might become highly uncomfortable and say odd things. But he wasn't like the other friend who was more active in engaging in her paranoid delusions. She'd seek you out to tell you things. The other, again, emerged in her first drug use. She had people that weren't there talking to her constantly and would talk back to them. She often thought I was her brother for some reason and would constantly tell me about celebrities watching her.


My point here is that none of these were subtle enough that I don't think a police officer or SOMEBODY around Toni would be very aware of this type of behavior. When the people I spoke of were on their medication they often became zombie like in some ways.

Not saying that this is the only way a schizophrenic person can act, but I've never known a schizophrenic where it was subtle on or off medication. Even if on medication you are gonna know something is really wrong. So why wouldn't the officer notice this? I can only imagine how any of the people I just described would have responded to a police officer, my guess would be extreme paranoia if during a psychotic break. I just have trouble believing the officer ain't gonna notice. If she was on medication, the officer would notice imo, because that is soooo noticeable imo. However, I am just basing that on the several people I know with the affliction, and they were not allowed to drive anymore. Maybe there are more highly functional schizophrenics.

I went to the movies with my female friend with schizophrenia, I have known her since high school. We once went to see the movie The Watchmen and she was excited about seeing it, she was on her meds at the time and seeming much better than previous. We'd went to the movies before, never had an issue. I didn't know much about schizophrenia at the time, and now I will just say... don't go to the movies with a schizophrenic, especially a movie where you have an enormous blue dude walking around blowing people up. Things got real very quickly when that blue dude got down to business. I don't know that I could even explain to you what happened and make it as scary as it was to me going through the process of leaving that theater. But no... not at all subtle.


The above is why I am personally skeptical, however that Toni was schizophrenic and no one noticed it or mentioned it. I also find it hard to believe a officer wouldn't have noticed it. They must surely run into this type of thing semi-often. I also wouldn't be surprised if an officer might trigger some kind of paranoia that would become immediately noticeable.

Now... maybe if she had her first psychotic break after the pullover? Sure. But just doesn't seem likely imo. I'd be more prone to believe she took acid or something at the park for some reason as someone else suggested and then had hallucinations or triggered her first psychotic break. But that's just me theorizing for the sake of what'd be the most likely scenario that involves a psychotic break. Now if someone around her stated that she was showing signs of schizophrenia, I'd be a step closer to seeing where you are coming from. I'd also imagine working in her occupation might be challenging if she was schizophrenic. But again, I am just purely basing it on my personal experience and what I know about it, I certainly am not an expert on the topic. There could be a far wider range of behavior than I have witnessed, that might fit your theory better.

I say, "possibly schizophrenia."

And the response is to provide some personal anecdotes, say it doesn't look like your experiences, and that therefore it couldn't be schizophrenia?

Well, okay then. Here's a personal anecdote for you. My best friend suffered a psychotic break, with no prior history of any problem. He was subsequently diagnosed with schizophrenia. It was only *after* his psychotic break, which was public, that he admitted he was hearing voices. I hung with this guy daily, and before his psychotic break there was nothing I saw that was abnormal.

So does my personal anecdote trump yours and prove this was schizophrenia? No, it does not. I am only saying it is POSSIBLE.

It was possibly schizophrenia.

It was possibly a psychotic break.

It was almost certainly mental illness related.

When a person is diagnosed with mental illness, they don't suddenly get that illness on that day. They had it BEFORE they were diagnosed. In this case, not only is it possible that it was undiagnosed, but it is equally possible that it WAS diagnosed. We wouldn't necessarily know.
 
<modsnip> A car skidded on ice, flipped into the river with no signs of having done so, and then ends up 600 feet downstream from a boat ramp? Seriously?
 
Personally I am waiting to hear more before commenting further.
 
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