Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

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AceDetective said:
In my original theory I couldn't explain how the phone kept working for hours, if she drove into the water at that park, since it was only a 20 minute drive or so. It appears she drove all the way out to Highway 435 and back, and possibly explored a few ways down to the water, as well. So that explains why her phone kept working for an hour and a half. She was driving around.

I didn't say schizophrenia was the obvious answer. It is just one possibility. What I have been saying all along is that she was suffering some sort of psychotic break.

W 26 Ave is the road she was stopped on in North Kansas City. There was absolutely no reason for her to be on that road. We ruled out the ATM. We ruled out that she thought she was being followed (the officer came from a different direction). It is simply not a place anyone would do a drug deal. There could be only one reason for her to be there: confusion of some sort.
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First, I think saying you are unaware of why she was on that road would be a fairer assessment than "There could be only one reason for her to be there"

I haven't took a look at the road myself, and I will, but I am not sure how you could rule out a drug deal. A drug deal can theoretically happen anywhere, and typically a place you don't expect it might be a good place to do one. ya know?

In terms of why I don't find the schizophrenia theory as likely. it's because I know several people who have schizophrenia. Two of them had it develop in their early 20's, one of them in their late teens. I know some people believe that it is triggered by drug use, and in my own personal experience with two of those individuals that seemed to be the case. one wanted to do shrooms with her boyfriend and then after that one time, she had full blown schizophrenia symptoms. She developed paranoia that increased as time went on. It was not in any way subtle imo.


The teenager didn't have any drug trigger that I know of, but the condition ran in his family. His paranoia started out more subtle with things such as thinking people were poisoning him at restaurants. But, if you were around him, you wouldn't right away know he was schizophrenic, unless you engaged in conversation, then it was very clear quickly that something was wrong as he might become highly uncomfortable and say odd things. But he wasn't like the other friend who was more active in engaging in her paranoid delusions. She'd seek you out to tell you things. The other, again, emerged in her first drug use. She had people that weren't there talking to her constantly and would talk back to them. She often thought I was her brother for some reason and would constantly tell me about celebrities watching her.


My point here is that none of these were subtle enough that I don't think a police officer or SOMEBODY around Toni would be very aware of this type of behavior. When the people I spoke of were on their medication they often became zombie like in some ways.

Not saying that this is the only way a schizophrenic person can act, but I've never known a schizophrenic where it was subtle on or off medication. Even if on medication you are gonna know something is really wrong. So why wouldn't the officer notice this? I can only imagine how any of the people I just described would have responded to a police officer, my guess would be extreme paranoia if during a psychotic break. I just have trouble believing the officer ain't gonna notice. If she was on medication, the officer would notice imo, because that is soooo noticeable imo. However, I am just basing that on the several people I know with the affliction, and they were not allowed to drive anymore. Maybe there are more highly functional schizophrenics.

I went to the movies with my female friend with schizophrenia, I have known her since high school. We once went to see the movie The Watchmen and she was excited about seeing it, she was on her meds at the time and seeming much better than previous. We'd went to the movies before, never had an issue. I didn't know much about schizophrenia at the time, and now I will just say... don't go to the movies with a schizophrenic, especially a movie where you have an enormous blue dude walking around blowing people up. Things got real very quickly when that blue dude got down to business. I don't know that I could even explain to you what happened and make it as scary as it was to me going through the process of leaving that theater. But no... not at all subtle.


The above is why I am personally skeptical, however that Toni was schizophrenic and no one noticed it or mentioned it. I also find it hard to believe a officer wouldn't have noticed it. They must surely run into this type of thing semi-often. I also wouldn't be surprised if an officer might trigger some kind of paranoia that would become immediately noticeable.

Now... maybe if she had her first psychotic break after the pullover? Sure. But just doesn't seem likely imo. I'd be more prone to believe she took acid or something at the park for some reason as someone else suggested and then had hallucinations or triggered her first psychotic break. But that's just me theorizing for the sake of what'd be the most likely scenario that involves a psychotic break. Now if someone around her stated that she was showing signs of schizophrenia, I'd be a step closer to seeing where you are coming from. I'd also imagine working in her occupation might be challenging if she was schizophrenic. But again, I am just purely basing it on my personal experience and what I know about it, I certainly am not an expert on the topic. There could be a far wider range of behavior than I have witnessed, that might fit your theory better.
 
Here's a pic showing two wreckers for what, I assume, are the two vehicles. It appears both vehicles were found just down from the Platte Landing Park boat ramp, which is in the top right of the picture. One about 500 feet downriver, and one at about 800 feet.

Other images show there is no collision damage to her vehicle. The windshield is smashed and the door is dented, but there is no sign of a collision. It was pulled from the water upside down.

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Source for image:
http://www.kctv5.com/clip/13165516/drone5-video-of-parkville-park-during-search
 

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I don't think this forum or Toni's new friends would necessarily know about any mental health issues. And how do we know they didn't? Nobody ever wants to admit these things. Toni wrote that she lost all her friends a few years ago, for various reasons, and I have always wondered what those reasons might be.

According to this tweet, Toni did experience depression.

[video=twitter;731231321918345216]https://twitter.com/Tonianderson2/status/731231321918345216[/video]
 
MaxManning said:
So you are saying that the car went upstream?

I'm confused. I'd say the chances of it going 8 miles downstream is more likely than 1/10th mile up stream.

Which are you saying you believe? she went into the water west or east of the park on 9 corridor?
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Yes, that is correct.
 
AmyPond said:
So to you it makes more sense that Toni's car defied physics or whatever rather than the possibility she may have been in the park for some reason unknown to us and had an accident there instead?
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I will admit that it would seem likely that she crashed in the park, but we have no reason to believe that she would be in the park. The only reason I could think of would be a drug deal, but we haven't heard anything that would lead us to believe that a drug deal would've taken place there.

Millennials use Google Maps to navigate when going through unfamiliar routes. She wasn't lost.
 
Looking at the damage to the car, I'd say the vehicle was airborne for some distance, then the weight of the engine caused it to pivot upside down before it hit the water. We've all seen the steep embankment and rocks along that stretch of river, there's no way a low profile vehicle like hers could have driven down that and into the water without sustaining any front end damage. The car would've been traveling at a very high rate of speed to accomplish this feat, probably around 50-60 miles per hour.

damage to car here: https://www.facebook.com/kmbc9/videos/10154932647111221/

You can pause the video by clicking on the screen as it plays.
 
What I am not seeing in the video/pictures is anything that looks like the airbags where deployed.
Edited to Add: I do now see the passenger side airbag.
 
Here's another -- Please excuse if a repeat -- it's early in the morning for me (!) and I didn't see it here...

[h=1]Kansas City woman vanishes after early-morning traffic stop; phone, GPS deactivated[/h] UPDATE March 10, 2017: Crime Watch Daily has learned that Toni Anderson's car was found in the Missouri River Friday.

Kansas City Police confirmed the car is Toni's, Crime Watch Daily affiliate WDAF reports. Police said a female’s body was found in the car, but was not identified.
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https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/03...=crimewatch_eme_26073_2017-03-11-feature_text
 
MaxManning said:
Right, I remember vaguely having the conversation. I just know that there is still quite a few people that took a different line of thinking to get to the car being in the water, but still don't think it's an accident.

I remember at one point you mentioned that something about the gps might change your mind.

I'd say that it's maybe the most nagging detail for me against an accident. The accident would have occurred almost an hour after the gps either malfunctioned or was turned off.

No doubt, I see the logic of there being a possibility that everyone is sketchy and she was heading to buy some weed or even sell drugs, but regardless she just simply got in an accident.

I think that's what makes the case tough for people that don't have as strong of a gut feeling or experience in terms of observing a case, like you do.

I just naturally want to exclude things in a logical manner, whereas you might just simply exclude them in a far simpler way via a whole different logic. Not suggesting I was logical and you are not, but rather we have a different process and mine is likely slower :) haha

I typically keep things on the table longer to feel them out and play some devil's advocate with my beliefs etc. It's a slower process and might even waste a ton of time that for you, might have just been a far quicker process. Maybe even be wrong far more often in my slow exclusion based logic.

So thats how I get to the point of asking you -- how do you believe she gets into the water at this location? for the purpose of understanding your logic.

up current near 9 & 435 and the car went 8 miles with the current to that location?
Going east or westward on the road coming from the dog park and losing control via sliding on black ice or swerving to avoid a raccoon as someone suggested?
Via the boat ramp, just following that pathway in the dark and not realizing it headed into the water? Not being able to slow down quick enough because of icy pavement?

It is fair to note that while the main roads were salted, these roads inside the park were likely not salted at all. So it would make sense that they were quite icy that night.

This is just simply the part where I am understanding there are plausible ways the car gets there, without any foul play, yet I also have the suspicion of why she was there in the first place.

If everyone wasn't so sketchy, I might be 100% with you at this point :)
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How does she get into the water at THIS location? I truly couldn't say. My best guess is that the car drifted over the 2 months. Details matter to me as well, the nagging unexplainables ... I like having all the t's crossed and i's dotted ... but things aren't always explainable. I've learned and found after working on cases here since 2007, that for whatever reason my gut instint so often turns out to be correct. Not 100% ... I was very wrong in the Sheri Papini case, Jenise Wright, and a couple of other cases. I tend to get a strong sense about a case and don't waiver from it. It happens in my every day dealings with people, too. I get strong impressions about them, sometimes alarming impressions, that turn out to be true. It's frightening sometimes, but it's a gift. I don't know anyone who pats themselves on the back here. I wanted water checked 2 months ago....it's two agonizing months of waiting for that family. That's not my idea of a good time or competition. I initially joined WS in 2007 on the Leah Hickman case, and have been here helping on countless cases since WS started. I CHOOSE to be here, none of us has to be. I try to help. I pray for every case, I feel for every family. I rejoice when they come home alive, and I weep when they don't. I went to school for Criminal Justice and a I'm the daughter of a retired police officer. Anyone who thinks this is a game of one-upmanship here doesn't know me at all.
 
Question -
Why wasn't her car taken by flatbed?
Would it have made a difference at this point as to the potential evidence?
I haven't been following this case so I'm unsure if this had already been asked
 
I'm going to give my unpopular theory that she ended up where she intended to go, the park. Maybe she was meeting someone, maybe she got lost and pulled in there to get better directions, but I think she was on 9 and chose to make that left into the park.

It was dark, and although the main streets were likely not bad, probably not true for the park roads. Without seeing what might block the way into the water, she could have lost control where Main turns and she went straight.

I think even if she was traveling at the same speed she was going on the street, wet roads, black ice and a hilly area could have propelled the car into the water.

Maybe a local could determine if this is possible. I don't think she went into the water from anywhere except the park.

I also want to point out that there were multiple people in Thread 1 that said accident ending in the water...Shadowdancer, Momoffour, lmadler, there were more.

6023bfa510f11a127344bc5406245ae6.jpg


857225759e73e3a3f64d9d08593676ea.jpg


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missgulfsouth said:
How does she get into the water at THIS location? I truly couldn't say. My best guess is that the car drifted over the 2 months. Details matter to me as well, the nagging unexplainables ... I like having all the t's crossed and i's dotted ... but things aren't always explainable. I've learned and found after working on cases here since 2007, that for whatever reason my gut instint so often turns out to be correct. Not 100% ... I was very wrong in the Sheri Papini case, Jenise Wright, and a couple of other cases. I tend to get a strong sense about a case and don't waiver from it. It happens in my every day dealings with people, too. I get strong impressions about them, sometimes alarming impressions, that turn out to be true. It's frightening sometimes, but it's a gift. I don't know anyone who pats themselves on the back here. I wanted water checked 2 months ago....it's two agonizing months of waiting for that family. That's not my idea of a good time or competition. I initially joined WS in 2007 on the Leah Hickman case, and have been here helping on countless cases since WS started. I CHOOSE to be here, none of us has to be. I try to help. I pray for every case, I feel for every family. I rejoice when they come home alive, and I weep when they don't. I went to school for Criminal Justice and a I'm the daughter of a retired police officer. Anyone who thinks this is a game of one-upmanship here doesn't know me at all.
Click to expand...

You did a good job here. I did my analysis independent of your investigation and we came to the same conclusion (although mine was a narrower subset of yours).

If you solve a case, your credibility goes up and thus, your opinion will carry more weight in subsequent investigations. If I was a LE investigator, I would follow those here on WS who have a strong track record of solving cases.
 
I think this is just a case of car hits ice, flips a few times and ends up in the river.

Jmo
 
The river was the obvious solution -- though I do recall it being pooh-pooh'd by several in earlier threads. Remember: if water's a possibility, it is almost always the solution.
 
Wasn't it stated her cell phone was active until 9 pm the next day?


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