Motive For Murder

[msfittz]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-suspect-raymond-clark-released-giving-dna/story?id=8588970

he texted her to discuss the cleanliness of the cages

I've been thinking maybe SHE had called HIM out about the cleanliness of the cages.

Maybe it wasn't the first time, and next steps might be disciplinary actions against him. He's prompted to e-mail her to discuss the issue, the situation escalates and he freaks out and strangles her.

ETA - Jinx! Guess I wasn't fast enough.

 

[jess_j]

I've been thinking maybe SHE had called HIM out about the cleanliness of the cages.

Maybe it wasn't the first time, and next steps might be disciplinary actions against him. He's prompted to e-mail her to discuss the issue, the situation escalates and he freaks out and strangles her.

this is exactly what i just posted. i've thought the same thing since i heard about the text.

i could see RC thinking "who does she think she is!" he is been doing his job longer than she has been at yale.

 

[Chanler]

Yeah, that's a good theory. He seems hyper-sensitive about feeling "humiliated" and that could do the trick. Poor Annie was probably just sticking up for herself against this bullying jerk and he went apesh**.

Hi, Stephens, to me, it's the worst of conjunctions: A control freak underling; a wedding-stressed grad student who's probably clock watching; a recurring situation. Knowing that she's leaving soon, he approaches her to air the cleaning problem. She's finally had it with his impertinence and says she doesn't have time to listen. He gets in her face; push comes to shove comes to homicide.

[And I think that his unusual Asian interest heightened the tension and his responses.]

 

[maggieo]

Suffice to say, I think we all kind of missed our mark here even though some can't let go of a sexual motive.

Sure, but it's understandable -- I read a LOT about crime and I can't think of any other intances of a young man killing a young woman out of sheer work-related rage. Obviously it can happen, but the sex motive is SO much more usual.

 

[HeyJoe]

He will probably claim it was an accident, if he even takes responsibility at all

Now that would be a big laugh to see him come up with that one. You don't "accidentally" strangle someone to death.

It would surprise me, but if this truly was a case of simple workplace violence, it is very unlikely that it started off as a strangling. But we also don't know for sure the method of strangulation yet.

Arguments can escalate quickly and it could be a scenario something like: him admonishing her about something, she finally getting tired of it and putting him in his place, him snapping and pushing or cornering her, she threatening his job "I'm reporting you," trying to leave and getting attacked, her yelling for help and/or fighting him off and him trying to shut her up in a fit of total and desperate rage.

There's just no way this was premeditated. He HAD to know about the security cameras and that the card swipes were recorded. This was a heat of the moment argument gone completely out of control, followed by a desperate attempt to conceal the crime.

It will be very interesting to see what motive the DA comes up with. They definitely have opportunity, but motive is still unclear.. at least to the public. If they can't come up with any evidence of a relationship (whether it existed or not), they will use what will stick. They don't want this guy back out on the streets.

The details will come out as the case heads for trial. Interesting case, and very tragic all around.

 

[Chanler]

I've been thinking maybe SHE had called HIM out about the cleanliness of the cages.

Maybe it wasn't the first time, and next steps might be disciplinary actions against him. He's prompted to e-mail her to discuss the issue, the situation escalates and he freaks out and strangles her.

ETA - Jinx! Guess I wasn't fast enough.

That makes sense: He would have been responsible for cleaning, not her.

 

[Columbo]

I've been thinking maybe SHE had called HIM out about the cleanliness of the cages.

Maybe it wasn't the first time, and next steps might be disciplinary actions against him. He's prompted to e-mail her to discuss the issue, the situation escalates and he freaks out and strangles her.

ETA - Jinx! Guess I wasn't fast enough.

Maybe his not keeping the cages clean or according to protocols was a passive/agressive act against Annie because he was angry at her success?

 

[passionflower]

A guy who leaves his dogs caged all day--not happily, according to a former housemate--the dogs barked and cried all day--kills Annie over cleaning mouse cages? He really has mental problems....

and wasn't it HIS JOB TO KEEP CAGES CLEAN????
IMO, RC is trying to blame Annie for why he had to kill her........
Come on, he could of reported her also........
nope I am not buying his story at all!
SHE didn't like how he was doing HIS JOB! JMOO

 

[passionflower]

An after thought, Annie's work was very important to her, her last day. She probably gave orders for what she needed done for her mice while she was gone and he hated 'orders'..........IMO

 

[Gene]

A guy who leaves his dogs caged all day--not happily, according to a former housemate--the dogs barked and cried all day--kills Annie over cleaning mouse cages? He really has mental problems....

Wait..what am I missing? Why would he send her this text? It is his responsiblity to clean the cages....if I am not misunderstanding this, the journalist must be mistaken.

 

[Columbo]

and wasn't it HIS JOB TO KEEP CAGES CLEAN????
IMO, RC is trying to blame Annie for why he had to kill her........
Come on, he could of reported her also........
nope I am not buying his story at all!
SHE didn't like how he was doing HIS JOB! JMOO

This makes more sense to me than the reverse (him calling her out). I bet she was totally friendly and diplomatic about it ,not realizing RC's screwed up perception and mentality--then he went berserk.

 

[Columbo]

Wait..what am I missing? Why would he send her this text? It is his responsiblity to clean the cages....if I am not misunderstanding this, the journalist must be mistaken.

I don't think you missed anything, Gene. It may have been faulty reporting...
BTW, hope you didn't think I was saying he expected her to clean the cages, I meant that the argument was about cleaning the mouse cages.

 

['Ailina]

[/B]This makes more sense to me than the reverse (him calling her out). I bet she was totally friendly and diplomatic about it ,not realizing RC's screwed up perception and mentality--then he went berserk.

Didn't someone (was it Labrat?) point out, Clark's job was to clean the cages; researchers like Annie are responsible for making sure their mice don't overpopulate or something like that? Can't remember what thread it was in. Seems like that's what was meant by "dirty."

 

[postdoc]

Glad to see the case is progressing - hopefully everything has been done by the book and the DNA evidence is solid>

"Workplace Violence" is rather alarming given that it ended in murder. I am sure Annie Le was not the first attractive, petite grauduate student that he helped maintain a mouse colony.

Were there other students who angered him also? Was this the culmination of months of pent-up frustration directed at these students that were around his age, but were clearly "going somewhere" in their careers and lives? Was Annie Le just unlucky - wrong place, wrong time? Did her small stature make her a target? So many questions....

Some people have speculated that the binders/books that she was carrying to the animal facility were related to her TA job. I wonder whether somewhere in there were animal protocols that she was going to use in her defense against RC's accusations? Maybe having Annie Le "lecture" him was the straw that broke the camel's back - "how dare you lecture me..."

So sad, so pointless....

 

['Ailina]

Here it is:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4168787&postcount=23

The thing that puzzles me- and granted I am not up to speed on all the news, is that I saw he told her to come over because mice were "dirty". If the cages were dirty, there would be no reason to call her- it was his job to clean them. If the mice were dirty because of overcrowding, well, that would be her job to do.

 

[postdoc]

Didn't someone (was it Labrat?) point out, Clark's job was to clean the cages; researchers like Annie are responsible for making sure their mice don't overpopulate or something like that? Can't remember what thread it was in. Seems like that's what was meant by "dirty."

Yep, one of the jobs of the animal tech is to monitor cage crowding. Usually the investigator is on top of that, but sometimes people lose track of things and the animal tech will call to alert you that the situation requires attention. Same is true of animals dying etc.

It is not a glamorous job, but it is an important job. It is not uncommon for graduate students to have enormous mouse colonies - and having animal techs is really essential.

It would be akin to having chefs responsible to cleaning dishes etc. Nothing would get cooked...

 

[Roy23]

You guys are getting off track.

This isn't about cleaning mouse cages, it is about protocols. She didn't have the problem with him, he had it with her. Thus his complaints made about her. It was about something that was her responsibility.

 

[Harmony 2]

Now that would be a big laugh to see him come up with that one. You don't "accidentally" strangle someone to death.

It would surprise me, but if this truly was a case of simple workplace violence, it is very unlikely that it started off as a strangling. But we also don't know for sure the method of strangulation yet.

Arguments can escalate quickly and it could be a scenario something like: him admonishing her about something, she finally getting tired of it and putting him in his place, him snapping and pushing or cornering her, she threatening his job "I'm reporting you," trying to leave and getting attacked, her yelling for help and/or fighting him off and him trying to shut her up in a fit of total and desperate rage.

There's just no way this was premeditated. He HAD to know about the security cameras and that the card swipes were recorded. This was a heat of the moment argument gone completely out of control, followed by a desperate attempt to conceal the crime.

It will be very interesting to see what motive the DA comes up with. They definitely have opportunity, but motive is still unclear.. at least to the public. If they can't come up with any evidence of a relationship (whether it existed or not), they will use what will stick. They don't want this guy back out on the streets.

The details will come out as the case heads for trial. Interesting case, and very tragic all around.

Welcome to WS!! Your posts add a whole different perspective to the mix and I am thoroughly enjoying reading your insight. I look forward to hearing more from you..

 

[Avery]

I'm confused too I guess now. Wasn't it also reported that they had an e-mail exchange regarding the cleaning or mice protocol. That's why my theory was this guy thought his job gave him more authority than it actually did. I think the boundries of his job verses hers in this crazy guys mind were messed up. The research is what was important. He thought he was some sort of mice whisperer or something.

 

[JerzWhim]

I believe he had an obsession with Annie.

Back in the early 90s, I worked with a married woman who (unbeknownst to the rest of the office) was attracted to a single guy in the office. At a work party, the guy casually started talking about this new woman he was dating. The married woman got visibly upset and left the party. I had to go with her since she was my ride home. For nearly an hour we drove to my house, her racing and slamming the brakes, shifting lanes. All that time, I heard this crazy rant from this married woman of "how dare he meet someone else", "what was he thinking". I wanted to say, "but you're married." and "where is this coming from" but I was so disturbed by this uncharacteristic behavior that I kept my mouth shut. I also did not want to get kicked out of the car miles from any phone booth. In this light, I see Raymond killing Annie. All this attachment buillt up in his head, and he just had to head her off at the pass (aka her impending marriage).

My married coworker later confessed embarassedly to me that she barely knew this guy, that it was only a working relationship, but that she had this fantasy about him so worked up in her mind that it became almost real. The fantasy was based on the fact that the single guy had been single for years and was never known to date. You never know just what facts about you that a stalker might latch onto.