Found Deceased MT - Amy Harding-Permann, 34, Great Falls, 26 Jan 2020

[bwt42]

Doesn’t sound like she would leave everything behind to start some new life somewhere with only yoga pants on. ..she should have been found during the search if in fact she succumbed to the elements or if there was self harm. It is possible she was abducted by a stranger or hit by a car and they took her body without any signs or evidence. The assault reported points to domestic violence and a crime of passion. Something went to far. Her body is hidden somewhere. We don’t have enough information. I can see she is a very beautiful woman. I don’t think a persons occupation can rule out abusive behavior in a intimate relationship, man or woman.

I've followed many cases where the missing person was found deceased in an area previously searched. Not saying that's the case here, but the fact she wasn't found doesn't lead me to the assumption of foul play.

 

[PommyMommy]

What do you suppose the outcome would have been had she remained in the house? Would she have been arrested? Do they talk to both of them and hopefully come to a truce without an arrest? I'm sorry, this is the darnedest thing. Maybe he was trying to get her to move out? Or of course, it could be what some of us are thinking.

It all depends. They're going to separate them, question them, and evaluate risk for sure. For instance, they'll want to know if there are firearms in the home and if this a pattern or first-time occurrence. They may want to take photos to include in their report. In some cases, an arrest may be mandatory; it depends on the circumstances of the incident. For example, attempted strangulation would land your butt in jail.

In this case, he had no serious injuries but we don't know about her so it's hard to say. Best guess if it was minor is that they'd ask them to separate for a night or two and let things calm down. MOO

 

[firebird]

Exactly. I have stormed off, and even if I am really steamed, I am grabbing a few essentials so I can stay gone for awhile. Coat, keys, wallet, phone, and then slam the door on the way out.

Only way someone wouldn't grab that stuff is if they felt in physical danger, IMO. Or if they were unconscious?

Or if they were in a hurry not to be immediately interviewed by police for whatever reason. Idk. I can see this one going either way.

 

[Eiramikkin]

When I first saw this story I had really hoped she went to a friend's house to cool off or something. Now, almost a week in with seemingly no new information, I'm worried the outcome of this case may be grim. I truly hope they find her soon.

 

[iluvmua]

When I first saw this story I had really hoped she went to a friend's house to cool off or something. Now, almost a week in with seemingly no new information, I'm worried the outcome of this case may be grim. I truly hope they find her soon.

Yeah, sadly I think she is desceased either by foul play of some sort or of another means.

Jmo

 

[idrmof]

Why did he call 911 if she had already left the house? He was no longer “in danger”, he was not injured enough to need an ambulance. What was he trying to accomplish?

This is exactly what I was trying to get at! Why call 911?

 

[Strangeworld]

Doesn’t sound like she would leave everything behind to start some new life somewhere with only yoga pants on. ..she should have been found during the search if in fact she succumbed to the elements or if there was self harm. It is possible she was abducted by a stranger or hit by a car and they took her body without any signs or evidence. The assault reported points to domestic violence and a crime of passion. Something went to far. Her body is hidden somewhere. We don’t have enough information. I can see she is a very beautiful woman. I don’t think a persons occupation can rule out abusive behavior in a intimate relationship, man or woman.

IMO if she did leave the house as described, then the state she MAY have been in would explain the lack of personal possessions and her limited clothing. If she was heightened, such as highly anxious or angry, depressed, psychotic, whatever, she would have been distracted from her basic human needs. Her body temp would also probably have been elevated - not enough to protect her from the cold, but enough of a distraction from making a decision not in her best interests. Being a mum, having responsibilities, loving others does not equate to someone suddenly becoming rational if they are in an irrational emotional state. Like others have said on here many times, this is why some people take their own lives, or make decisions that put them at risk, when they may otherwise be a positive, well-functioning person.

But this is all based on taking his story as fact. I just don't think we have enough to hazard a guess right now, and I like to avoid blaming anyone without evidence. Hunches don't do anyone any favours, particularly innocent people. I think I felt that the most when Jill Meagher was murdered here in Australia. Her husband was innocent yet he was immediately guilty by some, just because he was her husband.

 

[mickey2942]

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vbi.txt

Some interesting statistics regarding domestic violence, and percentage of women killed by intimate partners vs. Strangers.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at! Why call 911?

to be seen as the innocent guy - something along the lines of why would I call 911 if I’d done something to her.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at! Why call 911?

She had not left the house when he called 911 - she was in the house (according to him). She left after the call.

As to the idea that "there's blood" in most DV situations where 911 is called - what is your evidence for that? Is there a study somewhere I can look at?

People seem to be assuming that because THEY don't think they'd ever call 911 for a DV situation unless their life were in danger, that there's no way JV would have done it. He's not you, and if you've never actually been in a DV situation you can't really know what you would or wouldn't do, or when you'd call the police.

There are plenty of DV cases in which someone (male OR female) is merely being threatened and feels unsafe, and they call 911 to defuse the situation. It's also done as a reality check on the abuser - the police show up and that makes it clear that what they're doing is not justified or normal. Finally, if there's a log of the call and the consequences, and the police are called again or there's any sort of legal action, that paper trail will follow the abuser.

I'm not saying whether I believe JV's story or not. (I'm about 65/35 it's not true/it is true, for what that's worth.) I'm saying that second guessing his call and saying it makes no sense is ridiculous. Female-on-male DV happens all the time and while it may not end with lethal consequences very often, it does cause emotional/mental anguish and trauma. And the men who do report it are sometimes mocked and belittled because they aren't "man enough" to protect themselves or stop the woman from doing it. Please don't contribute to that viewpoint.

Dismissing his story out of hand also negates other experiences of DV as being "not dangerous enough" to involve the police. What you think is "dangerous enough", sitting behind your computer, is hardly realistic, compared with someone actually going through DV.

If all of this took place, it did so in the heat of the moment, and people do things in the heat of the moment that they'd never do when emotions aren't running the show. Like call 911 on their partner, or leave the house without their phone. (FWIW I've left the house without my phone plenty of times, when upset and when not - it's not the case that everyone on earth is obsessed with their phone to the degree that they carry it everywhere.)

tl:dr - JV's story may not be true, but please don't belittle all male DV victims by acting as if you know better than they do, or assume everyone reacts the way you think you would in a situation you've never been in.

 

[momrids6]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at! Why call 911?

Go listen to the scanner feed of your local LE. Your ears will burn.

In this case, we don't know what she said, and other pertinent facts. She may have said something that worried him.

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if there had been any calls previously to the police department for DV from either one of the parties involved.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Go listen to the scanner feed of your local LE. Your ears will burn.

In this case, we don't know what she said, and other pertinent facts. She may have said something that worried him.

Yes, anyone that thinks it is unusual that 911 was called in this situation needs to listen to a scanner. I will hear at least 6 per day and more on weekends on my local scanner. I would say that on the local scanner the dispatches are 70 percent for verbal only domestics and the other 30 percent are known to be physical domestics or unknown, but possibly, physical. I would say it is about 50-50 whether the person that was physical left the scene or not before, during, or immediately after the 911 call.

That all said, we don't have enough information about the circumstances, including whether there are any corroborating witnesses.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

She had not left the house when he called 911 - she was in the house (according to him). She left after the call.

As to the idea that "there's blood" in most DV situations where 911 is called - what is your evidence for that? Is there a study somewhere I can look at?

People seem to be assuming that because THEY don't think they'd ever call 911 for a DV situation unless their life were in danger, that there's no way JV would have done it. He's not you, and if you've never actually been in a DV situation you can't really know what you would or wouldn't do, or when you'd call the police.

There are plenty of DV cases in which someone (male OR female) is merely being threatened and feels unsafe, and they call 911 to defuse the situation. It's also done as a reality check on the abuser - the police show up and that makes it clear that what they're doing is not justified or normal. Finally, if there's a log of the call and the consequences, and the police are called again or there's any sort of legal action, that paper trail will follow the abuser.

I'm not saying whether I believe JV's story or not. (I'm about 65/35 it's not true/it is true, for what that's worth.) I'm saying that second guessing his call and saying it makes no sense is ridiculous. Female-on-male DV happens all the time and while it may not end with lethal consequences very often, it does cause emotional/mental anguish and trauma. And the men who do report it are sometimes mocked and belittled because they aren't "man enough" to protect themselves or stop the woman from doing it. Please don't contribute to that viewpoint.

Dismissing his story out of hand also negates other experiences of DV as being "not dangerous enough" to involve the police. What you think is "dangerous enough", sitting behind your computer, is hardly realistic, compared with someone actually going through DV.

If all of this took place, it did so in the heat of the moment, and people do things in the heat of the moment that they'd never do when emotions aren't running the show. Like call 911 on their partner, or leave the house without their phone. (FWIW I've left the house without my phone plenty of times, when upset and when not - it's not the case that everyone on earth is obsessed with their phone to the degree that they carry it everywhere.)

tl:dr - JV's story may not be true, but please don't belittle all male DV victims by acting as if you know better than they do, or assume everyone reacts the way you think you would in a situation you've never been in.

Good post. I agree about what we do in the heat of the moment. To add to that, in the last while it didn’t seem that social media was important to her, so she may not have been attached to her phone either.

Agree we know little. Had she just arrived, lived there, intoxicated, dealing with mental illness, suicidal? We know known of that of which some would further the need to call.

One think I just thought of. I wonder if there was any type of Polaris vehicle or 4 wheeler she could have got in down by the river? We also don’t know if she said she was going to the river or if he watched her or chased after her there. Just seems so many unknowns. I hope we get better answers Monday. Does she have immediate family anywhere?

 

[Dave F.]

Good post. I agree about what we do in the heat of the moment. To add to that, in the last while it didn’t seem that social media was important to her, so she may not have been attached to her phone either.

Agree we know little. Had she just arrived, lived there, intoxicated, dealing with mental illness, suicidal? We know known of that of which some would further the need to call.

One think I just thought of. I wonder if there was any type of Polaris vehicle or 4 wheeler she could have got in down by the river? We also don’t know if she said she was going to the river or if he watched her or chased after her there. Just seems so many unknowns. I hope we get better answers Monday. Does she have immediate family anywhere?

The river bank is the south end of the back yard, but it is not the main channel of the Missouri. It could be seen from the house in daylight, perhaps not in darkness. I've placed a red arrow pointing to the location on this screenshot from State of Montana Cadastral. JMO
Montana Cadastral

 

[PommyMommy]

The river bank is the south end of the back yard, but it is not the main channel of the Missouri. It could be seen from the house in daylight, perhaps not in darkness. I've placed a red arrow pointing to the location on this screenshot from State of Montana Cadastral. JMO
Montana Cadastral

If you haven't seen them, there are also lots of photos on page 1. MOO

 

[quidnunc247]

From her Facebook her kids aren't really little so they might have seen her leave. Amy Elaine I worry about what she was wearing given temperatures down in the 20's at night. Hopefully, she went to a friends house and just didn't let her kids know but as close as the river is, I'm worried. Here's a realtor view of her home (not for sale, old listing) but you can see from the one photo how close the water is. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/343-Flood-Rd-Great-Falls-MT-59404/51410852_zpid/

I didn’t realize the river was that close to the house. Thanks for posting!

 

[Scoutce]

Under certain circumstance I can see her leaving without her things. I left once without my phone, purse, keys, car or shoes. To get those things I would have had to engage in a physical altercation which I had no chance of winning. I did leave knowing a family member lived less than a 1/2 mile and I could walk. I did not call the police because in my state they often arrest both parties and let the court sort it out. I wasn’t going to put my professional license on the line. I hope she had a place to go to find help. At this late date it doesn’t look like it. DV is grossly under reported.

 

[firebird]

deleted. Messed up the quote/reply

 

[firebird]

they often arrest both parties and let the court sort it out. I wasn’t going to put my professional license on the line.

Snipped by me. Exactly. And it's often the person who calls and who stays in the house who is NOT the one who is arrested. Especially if it's their house and not a marital situation. In a minor DV situation, LE absolutely does not give two chits about the impact on a professional's life. They see it every day and spending the night in jail and/or having a professional license placed in jeopardy is not something they even consider. At all. For the record, I live in an area where the relationship lottery game is a very real thing. I would say 30-40 percent of affluent people and/or those seeking them out, know how to play these games very very well. And I think I'm underestimating.

JMO