Found Deceased MT - Amy Harding-Permann, 34, Great Falls, 26 Jan 2020

[GraceG]

IMO there is a line between a well-being search and a search warrant. The initial search was in the house of a highly respected assault victim who's loved one had run and disappeared. There were interested in finding Amy, not evidence.

A search warrant doesn't give a bleep about being sensitive, they will get everything the warrant permits.

Absolutely! A judge issues a search warrant to authorize law enforcement to search a particular location and seize specific items. Police must show probable cause that a crime was committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found in the place specified by the warrant prior to it being issued. Probable cause is facts and circumstances known to the officer that provides the basis for a reasonable person to believe that a crime was committed at the place to be searched, or that evidence of a crime exists at the location)

Police may only search the particular area and seize the specific items called for in the warrant. There are exceptions to this – search with consent, items in plain view, search incident to arrest, exigent circumstances (reasonable belief evidence will be destroyed or danger to others if a delay in the warrant), automobile exception (reasonable belief of contraband). Hot Pursuit (LE entering a private dwelling if they are in "hot pursuit" of a fleeing criminal. Once inside they may search the entire area without first obtaining a search warrant.)

A wellness check, or welfare check, is an in-person call from local law enforcement to someone whose behavior has become suspicious in some way. Usually requested by a friend or family member. LE may only check on the well being of the person being checked and can not search outside of the scope of that or remove items from the place being searched without a warrant.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

They were FB friends in the past - they'd have to be, in order to comment on one another's posts. I can see their posts but not comment, so the settings are such that posts are public but comments are limited to friends.

 

[PommyMommy]

Absolutely! A judge issues a search warrant to authorize law enforcement to search a particular location and seize specific items. Police must show probable cause that a crime was committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found in the place specified by the warrant prior to it being issued. Probable cause is facts and circumstances known to the officer that provides the basis for a reasonable person to believe that a crime was committed at the place to be searched, or that evidence of a crime exists at the location)

Police may only search the particular area and seize the specific items called for in the warrant. There are exceptions to this – search with consent, items in plain view, search incident to arrest, exigent circumstances (reasonable belief evidence will be destroyed or danger to others if a delay in the warrant), automobile exception (reasonable belief of contraband). Hot Pursuit (LE entering a private dwelling if they are in "hot pursuit" of a fleeing criminal. Once inside they may search the entire area without first obtaining a search warrant.)

A wellness check, or welfare check, is an in-person call from local law enforcement to someone whose behavior has become suspicious in some way. Usually requested by a friend or family member. LE may only check on the well being of the person being checked and can not search outside of the scope of that or remove items from the place being searched without a warrant.

Adding links (for further information):

Criminal Law Search and Seizure Frequently Asked Questions :: Justia

https://nypost.com/2018/12/17/this-is-why-people-are-suddenly-googling-wellness-checks/

 

[Dave F.]

LE has searched every probable place on land. The Missouri River at Great Falls is very tricky. There have been many drownings over the years, and unfortunately sometimes it takes a long time for a body to surface. Underwater search is impossible at this time, and next to impossible at the best of times. So, it appears to me that LE is doing what they can, while watching closely to see what develops.
Meanwhile, we know very little about what happened. We have no idea of the contents of either her phone or his, we have no clue as to whether anyone else was in the house at the time, and we have no information on security cameras. LE knows all of that, and isn't sharing that with the public yet.
That is the entire status of this case, at this time. IMO

 

[The Night Watchman]

LE has searched every probable place on land. The Missouri River at Great Falls is very tricky. There have been many drownings over the years, and unfortunately sometimes it takes a long time for a body to surface. Underwater search is impossible at this time, and next to impossible at the best of times. So, it appears to me that LE is doing what they can, while watching closely to see what develops.
Meanwhile, we know very little about what happened. We have no idea of the contents of either her phone or his, we have no clue as to whether anyone else was in the house at the time, and we have no information on security cameras. LE knows all of that, and isn't sharing that with the public yet.
That is the entire status of this case, at this time. IMO

Agree.

If LE has a suspect and is building a case, we may not hear from them until a warrant is served or an arrest, IMO.

If LE has little to go on and no suspect, we may only hear from them occasionally.

This is the quiet time. There is not much new to discuss, so I just lurk and wait...

 

[Kapua]

Public search being held tomorrow to search for missing Amy Harding

Nothing makes a lot of sense here. A nurse, left her home, and children, without a coat, credit card, car keys, cell phone, on Saturday night in Montana in January.

They better check the landfill, and her boyfriend's GPS...

The search began quickly - probably as soon as LE learned she wasn't dressed for the weather. They called in SAR and Malmstrom AFB to help in the search overnight. The next morning, they had K-9's, a helicopter, and a drone with FLIR capability as well as volunteer firefighters, more deputies, etc. MOO

I'm catching up on Amy's case. Have the searches turned up nothing? Did the K-9s indicate in which direction Amy might have gone?

 

[rkendmar]

Just a thought:
"The Ralstons are now in their 70s and spend most of every year travelling to search sites or on the water, looking for bodies. They have clocked more than 31,000 miles on their motorhome in a single year. In almost two decades of searching, they have found 120 victims of drowning in lakes and rivers across the US and Canada. They are considered among the best underwater search and recovery specialists in North America, and have worked for agencies from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to Nasa (hunting for the wreckage of the space shuttle Columbia, which disintegrated on atmospheric entry in February 2003, killing all seven crew members). They have helped solve crimes and generations-old mysteries."
Bring up the bodies: the retired couple who find drowning victims

 

[PommyMommy]

LE has searched every probable place on land. The Missouri River at Great Falls is very tricky. There have been many drownings over the years, and unfortunately sometimes it takes a long time for a body to surface. Underwater search is impossible at this time, and next to impossible at the best of times. So, it appears to me that LE is doing what they can, while watching closely to see what develops.
Meanwhile, we know very little about what happened. We have no idea of the contents of either her phone or his, we have no clue as to whether anyone else was in the house at the time, and we have no information on security cameras. LE knows all of that, and isn't sharing that with the public yet.
That is the entire status of this case, at this time. IMO

Agree that underwater search is not safe at this time but just wanted to point out that we have underwater drones now so I wouldn't call it next to impossible in the best of times. We also have ROV's (remotely operated vehicles) like what was used to find Kelsey Starling. Those are quite expensive, though. MOO

Underwater drones latest addition to Orange County Fire remote control fleet

'Kelsey is home': Kelsey Starling’s body found

ETA: Yay for technology!

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm catching up on Amy's case. Have the searches turned up nothing? Did the K-9s indicate in which direction Amy might have gone?

Hi Pua. Make sure you watch the second press conference. The Sheriff didn't give specifics on anything that was found during the searches or indicate what the dogs alerted on, if anything.

He did say this, however: "The amount of data collection and information that we obtained today was massive. There's a massive amount of evidence and data that was collected and we're going to have to sort through all that, and that's gonna take a long time."

MOO

 

[Dave F.]

There is an excellent news video from June 19, 2019 showing live coverage of the Great Falls Fire and Rescue responders in a rescue, which very quickly turned into a recovery. You will have to scroll down and click to start the video.
The location of this event is approximately 13.5 miles downstream from where AHP went walking, but it is only 4.5 air miles away.
As you will see, it is a large powerful river but the Great Falls responders are well trained, coordinated and equipped. IMO
The Google Earth aerial shot shows the geographic relationship between the area they have land searched and the location of that video.
UPDATE: 2 victims identified in fatal Missouri River jet ski crash

 

[Kapua]

Hi Pua. Make sure you watch the second press conference. The Sheriff didn't give specifics on anything that was found during the searches or indicate what the dogs alerted on, if anything.

He did say this, however: "The amount of data collection and information that we obtained today was massive. There's a massive amount of evidence and data that was collected and we're going to have to sort through all that, and that's gonna take a long time."

MOO

I'll try to watch later, thanks! Massive... that's encouraging!

 

[mickey2942]

There is just so much open space there.

 

[MysteryAlpaca]

I have been following this and I don't know what to think. IMO it is strange to stop searching for someone who is "missing" in an active way. They must have information that leads them to believe she is somewhere specific or something else has happened. The boyfriend does seem to be the most likely person to know her current whereabouts. It's so sad and I hope that she is found. MOO.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

were she and her bf ever FB friends? as of now (today), they are not. just an observation. MOO.

I don’t think they were. I looked immediately when I started posting here. I knew I had found a post with him tagged from her profile though. He is tagged and it goes to his profile but not friends. Amy Elaine

 

[MinnyPin]

I have been following this and I don't know what to think. IMO it is strange to stop searching for someone who is "missing" in an active way. They must have information that leads them to believe she is somewhere specific or something else has happened. The boyfriend does seem to be the most likely person to know her current whereabouts. It's so sad and I hope that she is found. MOO.

Exactly. When someone is missing, searches usually aren’t stopped.

Wasn’t there snow? Could they have found footprints?

Usually in cases like these there is something... like a backpack or shoe is found, etc. In Amy’s case NOTHING. So weird!

I will say that I’ve read a lot of SM and comments on news articles. I didn’t see a single comment about Amy’s relationship or a single comment questioning the boyfriend by those who knew her. Wish we knew more, but today is Day 9, not looking good.

 

[Dave F.]

Adding links (for further information):

Criminal Law Search and Seizure Frequently Asked Questions :: Justia

https://nypost.com/2018/12/17/this-is-why-people-are-suddenly-googling-wellness-checks/

Cascade County Sheriff Jesse Slaughter has extensive law enforcement experience and does an excellent job. I sometimes think he overestimates the public comprehension of the duties and challenges of his department. In saying that he couldn’t just get search warrants without probable cause that a crime had been committed, he was referring precisely to the revised Montana Code Annotated 2019, Title 46 Criminal Procedure, Chapter 5 Search and Seizure, Part 2 Search Warrants, 46-5-221. Grounds for search warrant, (1) which reads:

“A judge shall issue a search warrant to a person upon application, in writing, by telephone, or electronically, made under oath or affirmation, that:
(1) states facts sufficient to support probable cause to believe that an offense has been committed; “

The citation is attached. IANAL, IMO
This revision was passed in the last Montana legislative session, about a year ago. In case you missed it. I certainly did, and I'm a resident.
46-5-221. Grounds for search warrant, MCA

 

[PommyMommy]

Cascade County Sheriff Jesse Slaughter has extensive law enforcement experience and does an excellent job. I sometimes think he overestimates the public comprehension of the duties and challenges of his department. In saying that he couldn’t just get search warrants without probable cause that a crime had been committed, he was referring precisely to the revised Montana Code Annotated 2019, Title 46 Criminal Procedure, Chapter 5 Search and Seizure, Part 2 Search Warrants, 46-5-221. Grounds for search warrant, (1) which reads:

“A judge shall issue a search warrant to a person upon application, in writing, by telephone, or electronically, made under oath or affirmation, that:
(1) states facts sufficient to support probable cause to believe that an offense has been committed; “

The citation is attached. IANAL, IMO
This revision was passed in the last Montana legislative session, about a year ago. In case you missed it. I certainly did, and I'm a resident.
46-5-221. Grounds for search warrant, MCA

I thought he was quite clear. MOO

“I know people get frustrated, and I know people want certain information, or they demand of us - which they should, because we work for them. They demand of us certain things but at the end of the day one of the things they need to understand is, to search something with a search warrant signed by a judge we have to have a crime that’s been committed (and) being a missing person is not a crime.”
Sheriff provides update on the search for Amy Harding

 

[mrstfs]

I have been following this and I don't know what to think. IMO it is strange to stop searching for someone who is "missing" in an active way. They must have information that leads them to believe she is somewhere specific or something else has happened. The boyfriend does seem to be the most likely person to know her current whereabouts. It's so sad and I hope that she is found. MOO.

Where did you see that they stopped searching? The last update link that Jethro posted says “Cascade County Sheriff Jesse Slaughter on Monday assured the community that his team is still working to find Amy.”

 

[MinnyPin]

Where did you see that they stopped searching? The last update link that Jethro posted says “Cascade County Sheriff Jesse Slaughter on Monday assured the community that his team is still working to find Amy.”

Actions speak more than words If they were searching for her outside there would be updates.

 

[mrstfs]

Actions speak more than words If they were searching for her outside there would be updates.

I’ve seen a lot of cases where LE searches are taking place in the background and no updates are made and we learn about them from VIs or missing persons social media pages or by sleuthing. I guess each police department is different. MOO

Has anyone been posting flyers about Amy in the community?