Found Deceased MT - Amy Harding-Permann, 34, Great Falls, 26 Jan 2020

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Alethea said:
Particularly because there is an unsolved seeming stranger abduction/murder in this very town last year (Tammy Goff).
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<Snipped by me for focus>
JMO
Neither Ms. Goff nor her vehicle have been seen but her dog, Sadie, a German Shepherd mix, showed up after most likely crossing the river at some point.
This looks more like an accident, with the vehicle and Ms. Goff still in the water somewhere.
JMO.

Tammy Goff still missing one year later
  • No one has reported hearing from Tammy or seeing her vehicle
  • Crews have searched the river and the river banks on foot, by air, and by boat
  • We are continuing to follow up on leads regarding Tammy’s phone usage
  • Tammy’s dog, Sadie, was found midday Friday on Hawk Drive, about 4 miles outside of Great Falls city limits. We have received reports of sightings of Sadie earlier on Friday, on the opposite side of the river, at least a mile further to the south. Sadie was wet when she was found and had likely crossed the river at some point
 
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I have no opinion yet on this case.

It’s actually pretty rare for anyone to murder anyone when you compare numbers of murders against the size of the general population. I don’t know that doctors are any less likely than plenty of other professionals. I will say that if you are much of an Investigation Discovery/Oxygen/HLN watcher or true-crime reader, you likely would know of cases where a doctor has murdered. I am NOT accusing Dr. VanG but it important not to dismiss him out of hand simply because of his profession.
 
rkendmar said:
"As the date looms for the trial of a Canadian physician accused in the murder of his physician wife, doctors are asking how they can prevent this type of tragedy among their colleagues. According to recent research, an all-too-high proportion of physicians experience violence at the hands of spouses or dating partners."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The study didn’t break down results by specific health professions, but about 45% of physicians surveyed reported intimate partner violence (IPV) or other family violence during their lifetimes."
Physicians not immune to intimate partner violence
Physicians not immune to intimate partner violence
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Yes, you can cherry-pick examples of anyone doing anything. That’s why I said rare and not “never.”

It is very rare that people decide to throw away professional careers requiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in schooling that enabled them to live very privileged lives. If you look at the demographics of violent criminals you will see they do not lean towards hyper-educated elderly men.

Does it happen? Sure. But should there be this type of tsk-taking at anyone looking at other possibilities? No I don’t think so.
 
rkendmar said:
<Snipped by me for focus>
JMO
Neither Ms. Goff nor her vehicle have been seen but her dog, Sadie, a German Shepherd mix, showed up after most likely crossing the river at some point.
This looks more like an accident, with the vehicle and Ms. Goff still in the water somewhere.
JMO.

Tammy Goff still missing one year later
  • No one has reported hearing from Tammy or seeing her vehicle
  • Crews have searched the river and the river banks on foot, by air, and by boat
  • We are continuing to follow up on leads regarding Tammy’s phone usage
  • Tammy’s dog, Sadie, was found midday Friday on Hawk Drive, about 4 miles outside of Great Falls city limits. We have received reports of sightings of Sadie earlier on Friday, on the opposite side of the river, at least a mile further to the south. Sadie was wet when she was found and had likely crossed the river at some point
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So you mean another woman disappeared after walking near an icy river? Why would that rule out the same thing happening to Amy? LE has been searching the river so they didn’t rule it out yet.
 
Alethea said:
So you mean another woman disappeared after walking near an icy river? Why would that rule out the same thing happening to Amy? LE has been searching the river so they didn’t rule it out yet.
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On July 12, 2018 at 7 a.m., Tammy Goff was last seen driving a 2008 black Chevrolet Colorado and it was said she was headed to the south end of Great Falls with her dog, Sadie.
-Daytime
-Summer
-Driving her car
 
rkendmar said:
On July 12, 2018 at 7 a.m., Tammy Goff was last seen driving a 2008 black Chevrolet Colorado and it was said she was headed to the south end of Great Falls with her dog, Sadie.
-Daytime
-Summer
-Driving her car
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Apples and oranges ... IMO Tammy's disappearance is a yet to be discovered car accident. Tim Miller should be invited to search for her.
 
One thing that keeps coming up in cases I follow is the suggestion that people go off to commit suicide by walking in the water. It seems so extremely odd to me to do that spontaneously and in that manner, yet it continues to be suggested. I’m going to have to pull up statistics on that. And maybe stats on more than that.

I do have to say that I think you could lump in more than doctors with people giving up lucrative careers or a “good life” and who are educated making rash, horrible decisions that destroy careers and lives.

I specifically remember a case of a doctor killing his wife on Valentine’s Day at lunch, and then going back to the office to perform surgery. Sadly, it happens. Not saying it did here. But something is off..... looking up stats of suicide by walking into water.
 
Death by suicide by drowning. A 20 year review completed in 2002 (yes I know that was a long time ago) showed .85% of all suicides. But in areas with access to water the number is higher. The article says:

suicidal drownings reportedly account for 2.8 to 8.9% of all suicides in regions with easy access to water. As with other studies of suicidal drowning, the victims are usually sober white males over the age of 40 years.

Suicide by drowning: a 20-year review. - PubMed - NCBI
——
82.6% of women were killed by someone they knew according to this report.
The Twisted Reasons Why Some Husbands Kill Their Wives

Yes. I realize she is still missing. I also realize the probabilities although I didn’t quite know the stats till now. Fortunately, I’m sure investigators know this and are looking in all the right locations.
 
Alethea said:
Yes, you can cherry-pick examples of anyone doing anything. That’s why I said rare and not “never.”

It is very rare that people decide to throw away professional careers requiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in schooling that enabled them to live very privileged lives. If you look at the demographics of violent criminals you will see they do not lean towards hyper-educated elderly men.

Does it happen? Sure. But should there be this type of tsk-taking at anyone looking at other possibilities? No I don’t think so.
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With all due respect the notion that professionals rarely violate the law out of concern for their lucrative careers is without support and dangerous. I practiced law for many years and the bar in my state instituted a program for addressing chemical dependency and mental health problems in order to assist attorneys in obtaining treatment and maintaining their licenses.

A joint study conducted by the American Bar Association and the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation in 2016, “(f)ound substantial and widespread levels of problem drinking and other behavioral health problems in the US legal profession.” See, attached study

Likewise a 2015 ABA study concluded that increasing numbers of attorneys are being charged with domestic violence. See, attached report.

As part of my pro bono service I represented domestic abuse victims. The biggest takeaway — domestic abuse is committed by people of both genders, all races, economic levels and at every rung of the social ladder. A professional license does not inoculate people against bad behavior and criminal acts. I do not know how prevalent domestic abuse is in the medical profession. Nor do I have an opinion re Dr. Van Gilder’s role, if any, in Amy’s disappearance. Hoping she is safe and soon returns to her family.

New Study Reveals Attorney Substance Use and Mental Health Concerns

Disciplinary actions against lawyers who commit acts of domestic violence appear to be on the rise
 
diggndeeperstill said:
Death by suicide by drowning. A 20 year review completed in 2002 (yes I know that was a long time ago) showed .85% of all suicides. But in areas with access to water the number is higher. The article says:

suicidal drownings reportedly account for 2.8 to 8.9% of all suicides in regions with easy access to water. As with other studies of suicidal drowning, the victims are usually sober white males over the age of 40 years.

Suicide by drowning: a 20-year review. - PubMed - NCBI
——
82.6% of women were killed by someone they knew according to this report.
The Twisted Reasons Why Some Husbands Kill Their Wives

Yes. I realize she is still missing. I also realize the probabilities although I didn’t quite know the stats till now. Fortunately, I’m sure investigators know this and are looking in all the right locations.
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I looked up means of suicide by women. In looking I saw that men are 3.5 times more likely to commit suicide than women. Not surprising. I follow a website that reports gun deaths & notice how many man kill themselves after killing their spouse or girlfriend.
 
PommyMommy said:
Sure they do. Just ask any dispatcher. They receive so many calls for domestics there's an assigned code for it in every jurisdiction. MOO
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What do you suppose the outcome would have been had she remained in the house? Would she have been arrested? Do they talk to both of them and hopefully come to a truce without an arrest? I'm sorry, this is the darnedest thing. Maybe he was trying to get her to move out? Or of course, it could be what some of us are thinking.
 
mcrazingwill said:
Why did he call 911 if she had already left the house? He was no longer “in danger”, he was not injured enough to need an ambulance. What was he trying to accomplish?
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IMO, if he is telling the truth, there are many reasons why a person (male or female) would request emergency services before, during and/or after a domestic incident. A situation can feel overwhelming, the person may have concerns for themselves or others, they may feel the situation is out of control and want a neutral party to come and assist to prevent escalation, there may have been a threat of self-harm or to harm others/property, the list goes on.

I have no idea what to think right now about where Amy might be and what might have happened.
 
Doesn’t sound like she would leave everything behind to start some new life somewhere with only yoga pants on. ..she should have been found during the search if in fact she succumbed to the elements or if there was self harm. It is possible she was abducted by a stranger or hit by a car and they took her body without any signs or evidence. <modsnip> We don’t have enough information. I can see she is a very beautiful woman. I don’t think a persons occupation can rule out abusive behavior in a intimate relationship, man or woman.
 
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AliEastCA said:
Doesn’t sound like she would leave everything behind to start some new life somewhere with only yoga pants on. ..she should have been found during the search if in fact she succumbed to the elements or if there was self harm. It is possible she was abducted by a stranger or hit by a car and they took her body without any signs or evidence. The assault reported points to domestic violence and a crime of passion. Something went to far. Her body is hidden somewhere. We don’t have enough information. I can see she is a very beautiful woman. I don’t think a persons occupation can rule out abusive behavior in a intimate relationship, man or woman.
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He has not been named a POI or a suspect as of now.

There are multiple POI they are checking out according to the sheriff.
 
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