Mysterious Message on the Door

[Bonepile]

Thank you, Bonepile! One additional question for you ... My question: Would acrylic paint ever be used for such a purpose? These were not the type of tattoos that come in a sheet, they looked like they were painted on ...

You can use a stipple brush and a stencil and stipple acrylic paint onto any surface including skin, or you can simply draw free hand with a brush onto the skin and if thin enough once it dries it looks like a tattoo. Remember any thickness to the paint and it begins to limit skin movement and might begin to flake off. I have painted designs on people for stage productions years ago, and I used acrylics.

As to "makeup wipes" they can be used to remove light applications of acrylics, but for thicker paint soap, water and scrubbing does the trick. Thanks again.

 

[Betty P]

BBM

This info was posted less than 3 weeks ago. So which is it, Betty P?

"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN HE SAVE HER"
Or
"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN YOU SAVE HER"

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The words of the message were included in RZ's autopsy report, but an unadulterated photo of the painted message was not revealed to the public until Ann Rule's book was published. For over a year after RZ's murder, no photo of the painted message was publicly available.

Many people have wondered why no graphologists were asked to analyze the writing and why the original photo was kept from the public for such a long period of time.

 

[Salem]

One more post about the kids in this thread and I will lock the thread for good.

There has never been anything in MSM that indicated the kids were at the home when Max fell or when Rebecca died. If you go there - you better link it up.

Salem

 

[IQuestion]

Snipped.

I see someone's trying to revise history with distorted, incorrect information.

No, the message painted in black on the Spreckels hanging room door was "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

It was not can "he" save her but can "YOU" save her. Early media reports had gotten it wrong because LE would not show the actual painted message on door to anyone. But Ann Rule got a hold of the door message from LE and posted the pic in her book on the Zahau case. Here is the picture of the actual painted words on door:

...just more thoughts on the cryptic message painted on the door.
SHE SAVED HIM....
CAN YOU SAVE HER...




Betty P had started an entire thread on this door and provided the door image at:
Mysterious Message on the Door - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

...just more thoughts on the cryptic message painted on the door.
SHE SAVED HIM....
CAN YOU SAVE HER...

I wonder if the words were "angry and unfinished thoughts?" Try adding....FROM ME after each line. It makes sense when you add the words, "FROM ME".... because no one would write, "She saved him, from HIM" and no one would write, "Can you save her, from HER."
I think both lines of the cryptic message, as written, only makes sense when you add, the singular first person pronoun of "ME." The author of the message has no problem in using "pronouns" to make their point...as a matter of fact GOING OUT OF THIER WAY TO MAKE THE DISTINCTION OF third person female HER , and third person male HIM. The only grammatically conforming and logically plausible continuation which answers both lines is...."FROM ME."
The $64,000 question is, who is ME? "ME" is a first person pronoun without gender identification.

 

[kittychi]

...just more thoughts on the cryptic message painted on the door.
SHE SAVED HIM....
CAN YOU SAVE HER...

I wonder if the words were "angry and unfinished thoughts?" Try adding....FROM ME after each line. It makes sense when you add the words, "FROM ME".... because no one would write, "She saved him, from HIM" and no one would write, "Can you save her, from HER."
I think both lines of the cryptic message, as written, only makes sense when you add, the singular first person pronoun of "ME." The author of the message has no problem in using "pronouns" to make their point...as a matter of fact GOING OUT OF THIER WAY TO MAKE THE DISTINCTION OF third person female HER , and third person male HIM. The only grammatically conforming and logically plausible continuation which answers both lines is...."FROM ME."
The $64,000 question is, who is ME? "ME" is a first person pronoun without gender identification.

I like your thinking. The tenses don't match if the message is to one person, but IMO whoever wrote this was in a highly irrational and impulsive state of mind.

"She saved him" (from me). IMO is a message or statement to the world. "Can you save her?" (From me) IMO is a message to JS.

The following probably seems far fetched, but hear me out, if you will:

I have thought that perhaps the "him" was Max. That IMO there may have been a conversation/argument/fight between JS and DS in the hospital in the first hours of MS hospitalization that went thusly: DS: "How could you let this happen, RZ is a (fill in the blank)". JS: "What are you talking about! He fell, she gave him CPR, she saved his life!"

Hours/a day after this conversation took place, it became clear that Max's condition was deteriorating and in fact was not "saved" at all.

This makes the message to a singular person not only cryptic but nastily sarcastic. If there really was a voicemail to RZ from JS about Max not making it that night, it would also put the timing of her murder almost spot on. It would also indicate IMO that JS knows exactly the "him" and the "you" in the message and the "who" and the "why" of the murder,

 

[IQuestion]

I like your thinking. The tenses don't match if the message is to one person, but IMO whoever wrote this was in a highly irrational and impulsive state of mind.
[COLOR="Red[B]Kittychi[/B] You are absolutely correct about the tenses not matching! Hmmm, back to the drawing board for me. The first statement is a DECLARATIVE SENTENCE...VERY,VERY SARCASTIC.... Wow, it almost hits you in solar plexes when you realize RZ's death was not only a tragedy, but also framed and plotted to make the point of a crazed argument to the ultimate tragic end[/COLOR]. "She saved him" (from me). IMO is a message or statement to the world.

"Can you save her?" (From me) IMO is a message to JS.

The following probably seems far fetched, but hear me out, if you will:

[B][SIZE="2"]I have thought that perhaps the "him" was Max. That IMO there may have been a conversation/argument/fight between JS and DS in the hospital [/SIZE][/B]in the first hours of MS hospitalization that went thusly: DS: "How could you let this happen, RZ is a (fill in the blank)". JS: "What are you talking about! He fell, she gave him CPR, she saved his life!"

Hours/a day after this conversation took place, it became clear that Max's condition was deteriorating and in fact was not "saved" at all.

This makes the message to a singular person not only cryptic but nastily sarcastic. If there really was a voicemail to RZ from JS about Max not making it that night, it would also put the timing of her murder almost spot on.
Yep, it also goes along with the interiview Ms. W-r-i-s-t-l-e-t gave to Chan 8 in which she states (paraphrasing) "The doctor walked in Tuesday night and abruptly said HE WON'T WALK OR TALK AGAIN." It would also indicate IMO that JS knows exactly the "him" and the "you" in the message and the "who" and the "why" of the murder,

If I approach the message through your interpretation....1st line) A declarative statement of anger/sarcasm 2nd line) The ultimate sarcastic response filled with rage and evil.
I believe the message was written just prior to Rebecca's death and with the full intent of knowing no one being able to save her.
!!!!! I JUST GOT IT!!!! "Tuesday night the doctor entered the PICU and "abruptly said...He'll never WALK or TALK again." Would an enraged relative (insert D, N, or A)
attack the person they felt (led to believe) was not properly caring for MS? Would that person "GAG her mouth" (so she couldn't TALK again) and bind her legs (so she couldn't WALK again), too? Suffocate with a plastic bag (because suffocation was also mentioned) and hit/struck on the same side of the head as MS?
Oh Lord this really gets stranger by the months....EVEN THE SHOWER SCENARIO is being re-enacted in RZ's death. As per the police report, XZ was in the shower when MS fell, so did the killer even re-enact the series of events by attacking or putting RZ in the shower, too?

Uh, 3 more unusual coincidences to add to my list of unbelievably strange coincidences.

 

[kittychi]

If I approach the message through your interpretation....1st line) A declarative statement of anger/sarcasm 2nd line) The ultimate sarcastic response filled with rage and evil.
I believe the message was written just prior to Rebecca's death and with the full intent of knowing no one being able to save her.
!!!!! I JUST GOT IT!!!! "Tuesday night the doctor entered the PICU and "abruptly said...He'll never WALK or TALK again." Would an enraged relative (insert D, N, or A)
attack the person they felt (led to believe) was not properly caring for MS? Would that person "GAG her mouth" (so she couldn't TALK again) and bind her legs (so she couldn't WALK again), too? Suffocate with a plastic bag (because suffocation was also mentioned) and hit/struck on the same side of the head as MS?
Oh Lord this really gets stranger by the months....EVEN THE SHOWER SCENARIO is being re-enacted in RZ's death. As per the police report, XZ was in the shower when MS fell, so did the killer even re-enact the series of events by attacking or putting RZ in the shower, too?

Uh, 3 more unusual coincidences to add to my list of unbelievably strange coincidences.

YES!!! AND...throw her over the balcony.

Sad and sick.

 

[kittychi]

Funny...when I first heard the story, I immediately thought of step kids, having been one, wanting to do away with their dad's girlfriend. I don't believe that in this case, of course, but it did enter my mind at first. <modsnip>.

Is it wildly possible that the message on the door was painted earlier, like perhaps the morning before Max's fall, by one or more of the kids fooling around and had nothing to do with Rebecca's death?

 

[Quester]

What if the "SHE" and the "HER" weren't referring to RZ? Nor to XZ?

 

[Zinn]

Funny...when I first heard the story, I immediately thought of step kids, having been one, wanting to do away with their dad's girlfriend. I don't believe that in this case, of course, but it did enter my mind at first. <modsnip>.

Is it wildly possible that the message on the door was painted earlier, like perhaps the morning before Max's fall, by one or more of the kids fooling around and had nothing to do with Rebecca's death?

Given the message on the door led to the room from which Rebecca was hanged, there were paintbrushes found on the floor alongside the knives, and paint was found on Rebecca's nude body, I think it's all related.

NR stated numerous times she was skeptical of claims that Rebecca provided CPR within 2 minutes. IIRC, when asked the source of that information, NR said JS was the source. The implication was that JS was repeating what he'd been told by Rebecca, but it was apparently JS who was the messenger of that information to DS. My personal hunch is that the message on the door was addressed to JS and was an expression of anger referencing a previous conversation about life saving efforts following Max's accident.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

Given the message on the door led to the room from which Rebecca was hanged, there were paintbrushes found on the floor alongside the knives, and paint was found on Rebecca's nude body, I think it's all related.

NR stated numerous times she was skeptical of claims that Rebecca provided CPR within 2 minutes. IIRC, when asked the source of that information, NR said JS was the source. The implication was that JS was repeating what he'd been told by Rebecca, but it was apparently JS who was the messenger of that information to DS. My personal hunch is that the message on the door was addressed to JS and was an expression of anger referencing a previous conversation about life saving efforts following Max's accident.

All of the above is just my opinion.

JS wasn't there so he has no first-hand knowledge of whether CPR was done before EMT's arrived. All JS could repeat to someone else was what he was told. Dr. Peterson told the detective that they performed tests over several days on Max and that the description of the incident didn't fit with the injuries.

I do agree with you that the message was directed at JS. I believe the entire suicide scene was directed at JS. I believe any parent would not want to continue a relationship after such an experience.

JMO

 

[kittychi]

Given the message on the door led to the room from which Rebecca was hanged, there were paintbrushes found on the floor alongside the knives, and paint was found on Rebecca's nude body, I think it's all related.

NR stated numerous times she was skeptical of claims that Rebecca provided CPR within 2 minutes. IIRC, when asked the source of that information, NR said JS was the source. The implication was that JS was repeating what he'd been told by Rebecca, but it was apparently JS who was the messenger of that information to DS. My personal hunch is that the message on the door was addressed to JS and was an expression of anger referencing a previous conversation about life saving efforts following Max's accident.

All of the above is just my opinion.

Hi, Zinn!

BBM: I have thought the same thing...see my post #185 above

 

[Zinn]

Hi, Zinn!

BBM: I have thought the same thing...see my post #185 above

Yes. IIRC, NR stated it was JS who shared the CPR information with DS. If that's accurate, NR has referenced at least one conversation that took place between JS and DS on the topic of Rebecca providing CPR. I'll have to go back to NR's audio interview to find her exact wording. I recall the interviewer asked her about the source of the "CPR within two minutes" claim and she detailed who was in the information chain and in what order.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[*Lash*]

What if the "SHE" and the "HER" weren't referring to RZ? Nor to XZ?

Hi Quester!

This has crossed my mind as well. In my opinion, it is feasible the "she" and "her" is Dina. Dina saved Jonah, can Jonah save Dina? It is a possibility Dina helped Jonah coverup something in the past. Maybe the message on the door was Dina asking Jonah to help her coverup Rebecca's murder? Not really asking as much as blackmailing. Just speculating.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

When ever I look at the painted words on the door, I always feel it was done by two people. The first "SHE" is painted so differently than the rest of the words. It looks to me that someone went over the original message to change or finish it. What else could it have said underneath or began to say and then was changed?

For instance look at "SAVED" and "SAVE" different brush strokes.. the "a" isn't crossed the "v" strokes are weighted differently.. the "e" are completely different. It is a shame if the door has been painted over or destroyed because you would have been able to tell what strokes went on first and then what strokes were put overtop. Much more difficult to determine with just a photo.

 

[SweetT]

I do believe that whatever the message implies, Jonah knows exactly what it means.

 

[kittychi]

I have never understood why the photo of the message on the door was never released by LE, but they released what it said. To my knowledge, the first time a photo was published was in Ann Rule's book.

:waitasec:

 

[SweetT]

Who re-uses a door that contains the last known message from the person whom you supposedly love? Would you seriously paint over it and re-use it? I know I wouldn't. Even if looking at it was painful etc, I would never be able to paint over it and re-use it. JMO

 

[coastal]

Who re-uses a door that contains the last known message from the person whom you supposedly love? Would you seriously paint over it and re-use it? I know I wouldn't. Even if looking at it was painful etc, I would never be able to paint over it and re-use it. JMO

I wouldn't either.

 

[MyBelle]

Who re-uses a door that contains the last known message from the person whom you supposedly love? Would you seriously paint over it and re-use it? I know I wouldn't. Even if looking at it was painful etc, I would never be able to paint over it and re-use it. JMO

I agree with you. But would you reuse a door if it was an antique detail that matched the other doors and you wanted to sell the house and the person who wrote the message was someone you no longer love?