Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[TedMac]

Hello to everyone!

I'm in incredible suspense concerning the FINAL DNA RESULTS.

In reading through hundreds of posts, I'm confused if the results of the testing were ever revealed. I see where the coroner repeatedly called the lab, only to discover the samples were constantly pushed aside.

I did read that somewhere it was determined that the couple were not brother and sister. Was an ethnicity ever determined?

As far as I know, the results of the DNA were never released. Ethnicity has never been determined.

 

[OnAccountOfRabies]

They are not brother and sister the DNA results are released and are in the NamUs data base.

 

[Mando]

I think the Sumter county doe looks like Anneke Adriaansen missing from Australia. She left with a male companion. The date is a little off but the photo of her looks very similar to the Jane Doe.

 

[Mando]

Narelle Mary Cox missing from Austrailia also looks similar to the Jane doe as well as Anneke Adriaansen.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

To the individual who was planning on going to the Montreal city archives and looking into Dr. Fiset -- is there any way you can check public birth records?

If I lived up there, I would make a trip over to Livet and see if I can get access to alumni records.

Also, guys, I read on DoeNetwork that "There are speculations that this female is an exchange student from the Middle East." Here's the link, read it yourself! Who is speculating this?? Why are they speculating this?? I am obviously intrigued. Was this ever discussed on WebSleuths?

 

[DakotaMayi]

To the individual who was planning on going to the Montreal city archives and looking into Dr. Fiset -- is there any way you can check public birth records?

If I lived up there, I would make a trip over to Livet and see if I can get access to alumni records.

Also, guys, I read on DoeNetwork that "There are speculations that this female is an exchange student from the Middle East." Here's the link, read it yourself! Who is speculating this?? Why are they speculating this?? I am obviously intrigued. Was this ever discussed on WebSleuths?

That's interesting! Has this already been discussed here and I just missed it? I don't think I have heard of this speculation before. Be interesting to know who is doing the speculating.

 

[Bit of hope]

The looks of John Doe always remind me of Charles Aznavour, a pseudoniem for Chahnour Varinag Aznavourian, a French singer, but originaly from Armenië.

 

[Tssiemer]

Never mind. I didn't read the last page of posts.


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[Bit of hope]

Narelle Mary Cox missing from Austrailia also looks similar to the Jane doe as well as Anneke Adriaansen.

Yes I agree on you with Anneke, but they went missing in 1979, thats why I didn't follow this up.....

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

OK guys, after scratching my head a bit, I think I know why the folks at Doe Network think she is Middle Eastern. I was thinking about how long and thick her eyelashes were. Those lashes were naturally dark, thick and long - in the days before eyelash extensions and Latisse were a thing (the ladies will know what I'm talking about!). Then, I thought what ethnicity would most likely have those eyelashes. Suddenly, it hit me -- many of Eastern Mediterranean and Levant heritage often have a very light olive complexion, but have thick, brunette hair, including their eyelashes. The Lebanese, Armenians, Israelis, Turks, Cypriots, et. al. live in what is geographically considered "the Middle East" - doesn't mean the same thing as Arab.

I'm attaching some pictures of females from that part of the world, for comparison.

^ The famous Lebanese singer, Karina Eid. One of the most beautiful women I think I've ever seen!

^ Marlo Thomas. (OK, I know she's an American, but her dad was Lebanese, mother Sicilian.)

^ Jessica Kahawaty, beauty pageant contestant (in Australia, I believe). Lebanese ancestry. Note moles on face, like our Jane Doe has.

I have a strong hunch that she may have been of Lebanese ancestry. I'll admit I was very skeptical at first, as I periodically check my "pet" cases on Doe Network and saw this interesting tidbit added almost as an afterthought, which I hadn't seen on her page before (or I would've remembered it).

 

[Bit of hope]

OK guys, after scratching my head a bit, I think I know why the folks at Doe Network think she is Middle Eastern. I was thinking about how long and thick her eyelashes were. Those lashes were naturally dark, thick and long - in the days before eyelash extensions and Latisse were a thing (the ladies will know what I'm talking about!). Then, I thought what ethnicity would most likely have those eyelashes. Suddenly, it hit me -- many of Eastern Mediterranean and Levant heritage often have a very light olive complexion, but have thick, brunette hair, including their eyelashes. The Lebanese, Armenians, Israelis, Turks, Cypriots, et. al. live in what is geographically considered "the Middle East" - doesn't mean the same thing as Arab.

I'm attaching some pictures of females from that part of the world, for comparison.

^ The famous Lebanese singer, Karina Eid. One of the most beautiful women I think I've ever seen!

^ Marlo Thomas. (OK, I know she's an American, but her dad was Lebanese, mother Sicilian.)

^ Jessica Kahawaty, beauty pageant contestant (in Australia, I believe). Lebanese ancestry. Note moles on face, like our Jane Doe has.

I have a strong hunch that she may have been of Lebanese ancestry. I'll admit I was very skeptical at first, as I periodically check my "pet" cases on Doe Network and saw this interesting tidbit added almost as an afterthought, which I hadn't seen on her page before (or I would've remembered it).

I also see the very slim, straight nose with the women on this pictures. And lots of them have the astonishing combination of dark hair, olive skin and wonderful light (greenish) eyes. I it such a pitty that in those country's there isn't a good database like Namus where you can find the missing persons (as far as I know)

In the timeframe our Jane Doe was in America there was a Civil War going on in Lebanon...resulting in the invasion of Syrië.... Good time to go abroud if you had the resources.

And as I suggested before...could also be Cypriotic or Armenian....but in this direction

 

[Bit of hope]

 

[reasonableguess]

Florence, SC (not far away) has a disproportionately large Lebanese community that arrived in the 1920s. They are a valuable part of the community. There is also a large, well-respected Greek community. In the 1970s, though, my rural, white relatives in this region did not consider either group to be "white." I still maintain that racism (at the time) is part of why this is unsolved. (Before this derails this post, my extended family has been in SC since the 1700s. I grew up as a military kid all over the world. My life experiences are very different from that of my scores of cousins, many of whom have never been outside of SC.)


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[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Fascinating. I think I've seen these photos online before; they are like composites or something of many women's faces from that nationality? In my opinion, the Lebanese woman looked angry! But, it is good to see a side-by-side comparison of the Turkish and Lebanese phenotype. I went with my family on a cruise to Turkey/Greek islands a couple of years ago... they are lovely people. I am not seeing Turkish when I look at Jane Doe's face, though.

Thanks so much for bringing up the Lebanese Civil War. That definitely could have been a reason to be out of the country!

Now, the guy at KOA campgrounds didn't mention picking up on an accent from either Jacques or Jane, did he?

Check out this great Wikipedia page on the Lebanese Canadians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Canadians

Some key takeaways: "According to the 2011 Census there were 190,275 Canadians who claimed Lebanese ancestry, having an increase compared to those in the 2006 Census,[SUP][3][/SUP] making them by far the largest group of people with Arabic-speaking roots."

"Many Lebanese speak French and unlike most other immigrant groups preferred to settle in francophone Montreal than anglophone Toronto and Vancouver. About half the Lebanese-Canadian community is located in and around Montreal, and most Lebanese-Canadian organizations, especially religious ones, are based in that city."

Now, if only we could figure out whether or not isotope testing or pollen analysis was conducted when they were exhumed nearly ten years ago, and what those results were. Does anyone know if their clothes and jewelry were saved in a box somewhere?

Here's hoping we can get some real answers in 2017 for Jacques Pierre/Paul/Philippe (Fiset?) and his lovely lady friend. These two have been put on the back burner for far too long.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Florence, SC (not far away) has a disproportionately large Lebanese community that arrived in the 1920s. They are a valuable part of the community. There is also a large, well-respected Greek community. In the 1970s, though, my rural, white relatives in this region did not consider either group to be "white." I still maintain that racism (at the time) is part of why this is unsolved. (Before this derails this post, my extended family has been in SC since the 1700s. I grew up as a military kid all over the world. My life experiences are very different from that of my scores of cousins, many of whom have never been outside of SC.)


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That's a very good point. It's been established that there was indeed corruption at the local level, and I still think it's a shame that LE didn't have the proper resources at their disposal to do a thorough investigation back then. We take today's technology for granted. Hey, at least they weren't cremated. We can still get those isotope results, but it's either because LE won't be forthcoming with the public for whatever reason, or they just never did it in the first place due to a budget concern, that a key piece of evidence is missing. Once we find out definitively where they both came from/grew up (which is probably going to be Quebec), we can start looking more in that direction.

It was almost certainly a local person who singled them out. No drugs in their system, no signs of sexual assault, and their (valuable) jewelry left on their person... I am willing to believe that it was some racist, or somebody who didn't take kindly to rich foreigners. Her purse, or his wallet might've been taken by the individual. Somebody on here mentioned a possible motorcycle. If it was a low-income area, they might have been resented for their conspicuous consumption, luxury goods, and overall way of carrying themselves. Not sure if they got into some kind of argument or disagreement with the wrong person, or were flashing their cash. Sadly, just looking at someone the wrong way can get you into trouble in a low-income area, particularly if you look at all different or "ethnic."

 

[Bit of hope]

Fascinating. I think I've seen these photos online before; they are like composites or something of many women's faces from that nationality? In my opinion, the Lebanese woman looked angry! But, it is good to see a side-by-side comparison of the Turkish and Lebanese phenotype. I went with my family on a cruise to Turkey/Greek islands a couple of years ago... they are lovely people. I am not seeing Turkish when I look at Jane Doe's face, though.

Thanks so much for bringing up the Lebanese Civil War. That definitely could have been a reason to be out of the country!

Now, the guy at KOA campgrounds didn't mention picking up on an accent from either Jacques or Jane, did he?

Check out this great Wikipedia page on the Lebanese Canadians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Canadians

Some key takeaways: "According to the 2011 Census there were 190,275 Canadians who claimed Lebanese ancestry, having an increase compared to those in the 2006 Census,[SUP][3][/SUP] making them by far the largest group of people with Arabic-speaking roots."

"Many Lebanese speak French and unlike most other immigrant groups preferred to settle in francophone Montreal than anglophone Toronto and Vancouver. About half the Lebanese-Canadian community is located in and around Montreal, and most Lebanese-Canadian organizations, especially religious ones, are based in that city."

Now, if only we could figure out whether or not isotope testing or pollen analysis was conducted when they were exhumed nearly ten years ago, and what those results were. Does anyone know if their clothes and jewelry were saved in a box somewhere?

Here's hoping we can get some real answers in 2017 for Jacques Pierre/Paul/Philippe (Fiset?) and his lovely lady friend. These two have been put on the back burner for far too long.

If you ask me....I'm not so sure about the testimony of the man who supposably had met Jock and Jane doe. Not that I don't believe him but seriously.....as I quote they soon became friends and then Jock told him stuff, but where was Jane in this whole story....get real...a beautiful woman like that and you wouldn't ask about her "hey...who is the woman with you...is she your wife...fiance" whatever...It doesn't make sense.

 

[Bit of hope]

Fascinating. I think I've seen these photos online before; they are like composites or something of many women's faces from that nationality? In my opinion, the Lebanese woman looked angry! But, it is good to see a side-by-side comparison of the Turkish and Lebanese phenotype. I went with my family on a cruise to Turkey/Greek islands a couple of years ago... they are lovely people. I am not seeing Turkish when I look at Jane Doe's face, though.

Thanks so much for bringing up the Lebanese Civil War. That definitely could have been a reason to be out of the country!

Now, the guy at KOA campgrounds didn't mention picking up on an accent from either Jacques or Jane, did he?

Check out this great Wikipedia page on the Lebanese Canadians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Canadians

Some key takeaways: "According to the 2011 Census there were 190,275 Canadians who claimed Lebanese ancestry, having an increase compared to those in the 2006 Census,[SUP][3][/SUP] making them by far the largest group of people with Arabic-speaking roots."

"Many Lebanese speak French and unlike most other immigrant groups preferred to settle in francophone Montreal than anglophone Toronto and Vancouver. About half the Lebanese-Canadian community is located in and around Montreal, and most Lebanese-Canadian organizations, especially religious ones, are based in that city."

Now, if only we could figure out whether or not isotope testing or pollen analysis was conducted when they were exhumed nearly ten years ago, and what those results were. Does anyone know if their clothes and jewelry were saved in a box somewhere?

Here's hoping we can get some real answers in 2017 for Jacques Pierre/Paul/Philippe (Fiset?) and his lovely lady friend. These two have been put on the back burner for far too long.

I have a lot of Turkish friends and although they are a very mixed people of all kinds of origin I can't see it either, maybe only the black sea Turks...but the Greeks/Cypriotic Turkish people are actualy a lot the same..a lot of christian Turks where band to Greece, as the Greece moslims went to Turkey....they still hate eachother, not to mention the Cypres problems....

 

[Bit of hope]

I would like to go with you on the Lebanon link....but if she realy was an exchange student...would you go to Lebanon, during a serious conflict, where thousands of peope went missing. The majority of them were young males in their twenties of various nationalities (Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian and others), of diverse faiths (Muslim, Druze, Christian) and of different political affiliations. Most of those who disappeared were civilians. https://www.icrc.org/en/document/lebanon-missing-persons-and-their-families

I'm not sure if in those days people saw the dangers already...I wouldn't totaly rule out the Lebanon link...but it's just makes me think.... I'm going to search for info on missing Lebanon people, maybe I run into something......

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I could entertain the possibility of this couple being Middle Eastern. For example my mother was good friends with an Iranian brother & sister who fled Iran in the 1970s. They all went to college together. The brother & sister were very fair complected, good looking & their father was of wealth. Naturally they all became very Westernized because California in the 1970s was a fun place...

It's completely possible that the murdered couple had been enjoying several months of road tripping & partying ....& unfortunately just met the wrong person who was willing to harm them.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

I would like to go with you on the Lebanon link....but if she realy was an exchange student...would you go to Lebanon, during a serious conflict, where thousands of peope went missing. The majority of them were young males in their twenties of various nationalities (Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian and others), of diverse faiths (Muslim, Druze, Christian) and of different political affiliations. Most of those who disappeared were civilians. https://www.icrc.org/en/document/lebanon-missing-persons-and-their-families

I'm not sure if in those days people saw the dangers already...I wouldn't totaly rule out the Lebanon link...but it's just makes me think.... I'm going to search for info on missing Lebanon people, maybe I run into something......

No you're absolutely right, I wouldn't have wanted to go to Lebanon as an exchange student back in those days, and especially under those circumstances! That's every parent's worst nightmare! What university would have allowed that, knowing what was going on over there? *chuckle* In fact, I'm to go study and work abroad in Paris, Marseille and Avignon this coming May, and I'm frankly a bit surprised that my college is even allowing the trip to move forward, given all the events of the past couple years. ​Je suis Charlie.

Anyway, for exactly the reason you just mentioned is why I'm thinking she wasn't actually from Lebanon, but was Lebanese Canadian. Jacques was probably just an average French-Canadian, though they are a mixed bunch, too. Many of those French fur trappers in the early colonial days took Indigenous wives, not to mention that the English, Irish and maybe some Germans were also a presence in the region, so there could be some admixture there in Jacques' ethnic makeup.

Anyway, the guy at the campgrounds and the individual who saw them at the fruit stand probably would have remembered a really thick accent... French Canadians do have a bit of an accent when they speak English, but some are really good at hiding it.

I just don't know why law enforcement doesn't do a follow-up with those witnesses, unless they are now deceased. If it's a genuine cold case where it's been several years, you have to go back and investigate as if you're doing it all the first time around, leave no stone unturned.