Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #21

[sunflowers]

I've said 2 things from the beginning...

1--if he planned it out and wanted to make it look random he would have gone to the Regency area. Perfect place with all construction, woods, roads for easy accessibility AND NC was known to jog there.

2--unless they were looking for a new home in there (which I don't think so)or had a friend in there, absolutely blows my mind he just happened to know about it.


Personally, BC panicked once he realized she was dead...went on the computer looking for an area to take NC. We've seen how detailed the maps are now...he found the closest place to his home. If he thought it out or planned it he would have gone to Regency IMO.

As for MeadowRidge..My husbands bf has lived 20+ yrs on Holly Springs Road, a few doors down from the entrance of MeadowRidge. They fish in the pond right inside the entrance on Fielding. The only reason my husband knew about the new homes were the trucks passing. My point is this is not the typical new subdivison entrance with new homes being constructed along the road at the entrance.

Sorry..to answer your question...No I don't think he drove around, he went to the computer looking for the closest and quickest area to get to.

i know the area well, too, & didn't know about those new houses off in that neighborhood. if he had known somebody through Nancy over there, her friends would know & could be asked. Somehow I don't think so, though.

i don't believe nancy jogged over there, so she was dumped there. if it was brad, somehow he must have either known of that area or was driving around in the middle of the night looking for a spot. but, as momof3kids said, why not drive to regency. i'm guessing he didn't know of the constuction over there either.

My guess---he was looking for a remote place close to where they lived, and knew that much of that side of Holly Springs Road was undeveloped or if developed, lots of space & woods between houses. That's how I've thought of that area---lots of hills, woods, space & privacy between houses, & newer houses.

He figured one of those subdivisions on "that" side of Holly Springs Road would have enough woods, and he might have driven into several neighborhoods off of Holly Springs & Campbell Road, looking for a good spot. My guess---this took place soon as it happened, he took off her clothes (or cut them off) that she was wearing at the party, but wasn't able to get running clothes on her (I can't see him dressing her, but who knows...), and then immediately went for a drive in the middle of the night while the girls were safely asleep. he guessed that the direction of that side of holly springs road was less developed (that would have been my guess, too) & the area he picked seems hilly & wooded from Holly Springs Road---perfect to drive into to see if it might work.

the man who found her did NOT go to where her body was---it was far enough off the road to see her body, etc etc. what this tells me, though, is that

 

[sunflowers]

i know the area well, too, & didn't know about those new houses off in that neighborhood. if he had known somebody through Nancy over there, her friends would know & could be asked. Somehow I don't think so, though.

i don't believe nancy jogged over there, so she was dumped there. if it was brad, somehow he must have either known of that area or was driving around in the middle of the night looking for a spot. but, as momof3kids said, why not drive to regency. i'm guessing he didn't know of the constuction over there either.

My guess---he was looking for a remote place close to where they lived, and knew that much of that side of Holly Springs Road was undeveloped or if developed, lots of space & woods between houses. That's how I've thought of that area---lots of hills, woods, space & privacy between houses, & newer houses.

He figured one of those subdivisions on "that" side of Holly Springs Road would have enough woods, and he might have driven into several neighborhoods off of Holly Springs & Campbell Road, looking for a good spot. My guess---this took place soon as it happened, he took off her clothes (or cut them off) that she was wearing at the party, but wasn't able to get running clothes on her (I can't see him dressing her, but who knows...), and then immediately went for a drive in the middle of the night while the girls were safely asleep. he guessed that the direction of that side of holly springs road was less developed (that would have been my guess, too) & the area he picked seems hilly & wooded from Holly Springs Road---perfect to drive into to see if it might work.

the man who found her did NOT go to where her body was---it was far enough off the road to see her body, etc etc. what this tells me, though, is that

didn't finish--- the perp had to have walked a bit in the dirt. maybe laundry was for tennis shoes?

 

[sunflowers]

I'm having a hard time thinking a fellow who lived in that area for as many years as he did was oblivious to the fact, or missed seeing woods on the east side of Holly Springs Road. There are also woods on the west side as one goes south on Holly Springs road. The difference is there is a turn off at Fielding to the east side, turn offs to the west below Lily Atkins and the wooded area south don't seem to exist looking at this aerial.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s198/Mahmooinla/Nancy%20Cooper/aerialhomebodylocation.jpg

The man trained for and participiated in ironman events - he has a bike , over the time he lived there I bet he was quite aware of his surroundings as viewed from a bike or doing his own running.

i think he's too smart to have gone online in the middle of the night looking at google earth, or anything unusual where it could be tracked.

people do bike on holly springs, though, and sometimes for variety, while I don't bike major roads for fun, i bike on the major roads & then bike through the neighborhoods around where we live. he would have appreciated the hills in that area & it's plausible that he was more aware of his surroundings than some of us. (his personality was very detailed oriented---he would have noticed far more in his surroundings than I would)

 

[DogWood]

Supposedly 2:30 pm (EST)

OK, thanks!

I had it in my head that that was the time the SW's were set to be released if CW didn't file his motion, which he did on Friday.

 

[Star12]

didn't finish--- the perp had to have walked a bit in the dirt. maybe laundry was for tennis shoes?

sunflower, the spot where her body was found was just a very few feet off the road - no more than 5 or 6 ft. It wasn't visible from the road because there is a dropoff there of a couple two - three feet. Not much walking in dirt, but in a dry condition the clay is quite packed.

 

[sunflowers]

I'm waiting to see exactly what she was wearing when found. IF she had on an over-the-head style jogging bra (the kind with no hooks/clasps) then IMHO she dressed herself in that attire.

However, if she had running shorts and a shirt, but no jogging bra, then I do not believe she went jogging at all and she may have or may not have dressed herself, but either way, no bra, no jog.

IMHO of course.

i can't imagine him dressing her after killing her, if he's the perp. but, if he's the perp & it happened directly after the party, he absolutely had to get Friday evening's clothes off of her so that the seemingly plausible running story would work.

i'm guessing the reason she was scantily clad (or however it was phrased--don't remember the wording but my impression was that she wasn't wearing full clothing) was because he got the other clothes off but didn't put much clothing on her (or any clothing).

the bra thing is interesting. my bet is she was wearing a regular bra that she wore Friday night. And, if so, this would be significant, I think

I don't know about most women on this one, but I *NEVER* wear my "regular" bra's for any exercise in NC---it's so darn hot & I am soaked when biking, running, walking, just being outside, so I don't want to ruin my everyday bra's. Is this true for you NC women? I'll survey people today on this topic

and did she have tennis shoes & socks on? i don't think so from the brief remark made about her not wearing much.....

 

[Daphne69]

i think he's too smart to have gone online in the middle of the night looking at google earth, or anything unusual where it could be tracked.

people do bike on holly springs, though, and sometimes for variety, while I don't bike major roads for fun, i bike on the major roads & then bike through the neighborhoods around where we live. he would have appreciated the hills in that area & it's plausible that he was more aware of his surroundings than some of us. (his personality was very detailed oriented---he would have noticed far more in his surroundings than I would)

Bolding is mine. IIRC, the sign at the entrance to the dump site neighborhood indicates there are new home sites available. I thught I remember seeing that, because it doesn't look like that from the road and I wasn't sure at first if I had the right place.

 

[Star12]

MT3K-- Do you think BC would take off with a body in hopes he would stumble on a dumping site without thinking it out first? Maybe that's the time span between NC getting home and the 4:20 HT trip. He could have left then and was driving around looking for a place and then stopped at HT. Maybe he wasn't worried that the girls might wake up.

IIRC, BC and NC had previously been looking for a larger home. The developer of this area is Toll Bros., and the area they had finally, sorta, settled on was in a different location, closer to RTP, but which also was being developed by Toll Bros. However, no money actually exchanged hands, IMO, because of the marital strife. I'm pretty sure BC would have been aware of this area.

 

[raisincharlie]

OK, thanks!

I had it in my head that that was the time the SW's were set to be released if CW didn't file his motion, which he did on Friday.

Let me double check the WRAL and N & O links to be sure of that before you take my word on it. Will add a the link to this post after I find it

Check back in a minute or two.

Here we go:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3385292/

A hearing is scheduled for 2:30 p.m. Monday on the issue of the warrants being sealed.
The two other warrants, which are scheduled to be released this month, are for the office of Cooper's husband, Brad Cooper, at Cisco Systems in Research Triangle Park and another for an undisclosed location.

 

[ncnative]

Nancy could have come home and taken her own clothes off herself. Maybe she was getting into the shower. Maybe she had taken her clothes off and gone straight to bed, BUT that would put her in the girls bedroom where she slept. Maybe he "got" Nancy before she went to bed. Most likely. In bed, she would have been in the child's bedroom.

Maybe she never made it upstairs.

 

[sunflowers]

sunflower, the spot where her body was found was just a very few feet off the road - no more than 5 or 6 ft. It wasn't visible from the road because there is a dropoff there of a couple two - three feet. Not much walking in dirt, but in a dry condition the clay is quite packed.

thanks star. helpful. that fits w reports re the person who found the body. so, in dry condition, that red/orange clay wouldn't necessarily get on the perp's shoes, or not bad enough for a detergent with bleach to take care of .

however, IMO, an athlete like brad would likely have expensive tennis shoes & i can't imagine him wanting to dump good quality shoes OR washing them.

 

[sunflowers]

Nancy could have come home and taken her own clothes off herself. Maybe she was getting into the shower. Maybe she had taken her clothes off and gone straight to bed, BUT that would put her in the girls bedroom where she slept. Maybe he "got" Nancy before she went to bed. Most likely. In bed, she would have been in the child's bedroom.

Maybe she never made it upstairs.

could be that she had taken a shower, was ready for bed & they got into a discussion.

i'm guessing, though, that she got home & they got into a discussion that turned violent, and never made it upstairs.

guessing, but don't know, but do know that a lot of the lochmere homes have bathrooms connected w at least one of the kids' bedrooms. if her home had a bath w a kids' bedroom, she would have slept in that room w/ the bedroom door locked. again, her friends would know this. if so, she wouldn't have encountered him after her shower.

 

[sunflowers]

IIRC, BC and NC had previously been looking for a larger home. The developer of this area is Toll Bros., and the area they had finally, sorta, settled on was in a different location, closer to RTP, but which also was being developed by Toll Bros. However, no money actually exchanged hands, IMO, because of the marital strife. I'm pretty sure BC would have been aware of this area.

Bingo. That makes total sense. Anyone looking at one builder's homes knows exactly where the other homes are, and has looked at those house to get ideas.

 

[ncnative]

I've been thinking about how NC told a friend that Bella (age 4) had started regressing in that she had begun to "poop and pee" in her pants again. Something must have really been bothering her for that to happen. Messing up your pants at that age is awful for the child to experience. I wonder what Bella had heard and seen between the parents in the last months.

I wonder if BC got physical/verbal in a way very scary to a child in front of Bella. Sounds like he had before, according to NC's friends and family. Very scary thing to think about. Bella and Katie could very well just come out and talk about things they've seen and heard. You know how a kid will suddenly come out and innocently tell something in kindergarten, or in public somewhere: "My Dadd'ys got a penis. It's really funny." Or, "My mommy and daddy were yelling at each other and then daddy said 'bit*h' and mommy cried, then she hit him on the head."

Just like my son when he was 6, decided to "pop wind" (f@rt) really loud in the drugstore where everyone waits for prescriptions. He had no shame. It was the one at Cameron Village where all the dear old ladies were waiting for their meds, sitting in chairs. DS let er rip, everyone pretended it didn't happen. I was dying. DYING. Finally he looked up at me, hands in pockets, smiling and said loudly: "You're trying really hard not to laugh, aren't you Mom?"

Everyone then let go their held-back laughter. That was one day where I wasn't proud to be known as his mom. He's gonna be 26 soon. But kids will say what they think, no matter what, when they are young.

 

[Star12]

Nancy could have come home and taken her own clothes off herself. Maybe she was getting into the shower. Maybe she had taken her clothes off and gone straight to bed, BUT that would put her in the girls bedroom where she slept. Maybe he "got" Nancy before she went to bed. Most likely. In bed, she would have been in the child's bedroom.

Maybe she never made it upstairs.

Much has been made of NC sleeping with her keys in the girls room.

This came from one of NC's affiants. Another said she had her own room. IMO, Nancy probably did NOT sleep with her children on a regular, on-going basis, with her keys in her pockets. And this could have been an incident she related prior to her involvement with TS.

Just something I have been thinking about.

 

[Star12]

thanks star. helpful. that fits w reports re the person who found the body. so, in dry condition, that red/orange clay wouldn't necessarily get on the perp's shoes, or not bad enough for a detergent with bleach to take care of .

however, IMO, an athlete like brad would likely have expensive tennis shoes & i can't imagine him wanting to dump good quality shoes OR washing them.

The soil at the site is a light tan, not the staining red clay.

 

[2Daughters1Dog]

I've been gone 10 days. What's a summary of the latest developments in your theories of how he killed her and disposed of her body, etc?

 

[raisincharlie]

If anyone cares to see some search warrants for what all is involved - warrants in the Michelle Young case were released today - check the Michelle Young forum at the end of thread 23 for the link

Will give you a good idea of what has to be presented to obtain a warrant, the kinds of things searched for and recovered.

Just thought you all might find the probable cause requirements interesting.

 

[raisincharlie]

I've been gone 10 days. What's a summary of the latest developments in your theories of how he killed her and disposed of her body, etc?

No new developments coming from LE - you didn't miss anything there. There will be a hearing today about unsealing the warrant for the residence.

 

[sunflowers]

I've been thinking about how NC told a friend that Bella (age 4) had started regressing in that she had begun to "poop and pee" in her pants again. Something must have really been bothering her for that to happen. Messing up your pants at that age is awful for the child to experience. I wonder what Bella had heard and seen between the parents in the last months.

I wonder if BC got physical/verbal in a way very scary to a child in front of Bella. Sounds like he had before, according to NC's friends and family. Very scary thing to think about. Bella and Katie could very well just come out and talk about things they've seen and heard. You know how a kid will suddenly come out and innocently tell something in kindergarten, or in public somewhere: "My Dadd'ys got a penis. It's really funny." Or, "My mommy and daddy were yelling at each other and then daddy said 'bit*h' and mommy cried, then she hit him on the head."

Just like my son when he was 6, decided to "pop wind" (f@rt) really loud in the drugstore where everyone waits for prescriptions. He had no shame. It was the one at Cameron Village where all the dear old ladies were waiting for their meds, sitting in chairs. DS let er rip, everyone pretended it didn't happen. I was dying. DYING. Finally he looked up at me, hands in pockets, smiling and said loudly: "You're trying really hard not to laugh, aren't you Mom?"

Everyone then let go their held-back laughter. That was one day where I wasn't proud to be known as his mom. He's gonna be 26 soon. But kids will say what they think, no matter what, when they are young.

4 year olds seem to be very aware of what's going on. also, it's the age where kids often have very big attachment/abandonment issues. i agree that something big was upsetting her---it's one of the main reason that kids regression with peeing/pooping. often transitions w separations/divorces engender major adjustment issues w 4 year olds. poor bella---either she knew that they were going to separate, or she was hearing terrible discussions that really upset her. things must have felt really bad to bella---