Nancy Garrido - thread #2

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I am curious what you think about other things that people have talked about in this case that you have agreed with and stated are true in the past. Were they not also based upon "what they are saying"?

I think what is bothering me is your assumptions that Jaycee will not testify, that whether she does or not pg can not be convicted by her evidence without ng's testimony and that any juror would refuse to believe that a sexual "relationship" between an adult kidnapper and a child that is ages 11 to 14 and bore his child only proves parentage and not rape? Tell me what you would think if you witnessed the kidnapping of your 11 year old daughter by 2 adults in a car. What thoughts would go through your head? What fears would you have? Would you search for her? Would you talk to media and give interviews, begging for her safe return?

If she showed up years later, with two children, would you honestly believe she had consentual sex from the age of 11? How would you feel? What would you want to do to the animals that took your child? Who changed your life and that of your childs?

What would anyone on a jury think? If they have children and/or grandchildren, don't you think they would personalize this? Logic and emotion, compassion and anger does come into play for juries, even though it may not with defense lawyers. How many hung juries or incorrect verdicts have occured in this world? Jury emotion and logic, or lack thereof comes in to play because juries are human! They will be plied with information. They may be overwhelmed by witnesses. This deliberation will be governed by logic, emotion and pre-concieved notions. Again juries are human.

Ng and pg will get their day in court, with a jury of their peers, but don't discount that their peers will be Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents, siblings that will internalize and personalize this horrific crime!

I have never said that ng will not get a deal. I have often said she does not deserve it and I wish it wouldn't happen. I believe she should be punished equally to pg.

Basically I agree with the entire post. I am only replying to...
BBM
While I sure do pray that NG does not get a deal, I think if she gives up important information it is a possibility. But she will still be incarcerated and perhaps in a Mental Hospital, but IF she givs up real information she will get less then LWOP...
But non the less still incarcerated for many years. I do not see her escaping jail time.
I will not entertain certain posts ...people who begun from the onset of this case with all sorts of posts defending the incomprehensible, are not sensible In my views.

While we understand how the state, or the defense may approach the case it still has to make some sense.
JMHO
 
Natal could you be a bit more specific. You said code 261.5(d). You neglected, unless is is way earlier in this thread, to specify what code, State or federal.
 
there is no way any jury is gonna think this was consenual sex between an 11 to 14 year old kidnap victim and a 40'ish (at the time) rapist/kidnapper. if they do we need to abolish the jury system and just start summarily executing pedophiles when there arrested.
 
Carl's eyewitness testimony of the kidnapping will be the other line of evidence. He described Nancy down to a tee and I'm sure could easily identify her in court as being one of the kidnappers!

That description could match tens of thousands of other women in California, as could the description of the car. In itself it is coincidental, not definitive. It would be used as corroboration for other more unambigous evidence, such as Jaycee's direct testimony for example. Alternatively, if physical evidence was left at the scene that could match either Nancy or the car to the crime forensically, that could be used in place of Jaycee (or Nancy or PG's) testimony to link the Garrido's to the abduction, but as far as we know there isnt any such evidence. That leaves testimony from one of the principals to prove the kidnapping charge.

It would be better for the prosecution if they had shown Carl a line-up before Nancy's picture was published by the press, but as far as we know, that didn't happen. If they had done that, then his identification would carry weight. If they didn't, then it could be argued that he was identifying her after her picture was made publically known, in which case it would be useless, since he would be identifying the woman he saw on TV, not the woman in the car.

The other potential issue with Carl, as I pointed out earlier, is that he has recounted his story god knows how many times in public over the years, and unless it is 100% accurate in all those retellings the defense lawyers are going to use that to cast doubt on the accuracy of what he does eventually say in court. The moral of the story is that in these sorts of situations where you one day may be asked to testify on an incident that is very personal to you, tell it to LE when required to do so, but beyond that keep your mouth shut.
 
Ok did my own research and it is California Penal Code Section 261.5(d). However, in this case I believe California Penal Code Section 207 and 208 are more applicable. Anyone want to read it one site is
http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/code/getcode.html?file=./pen/00001-01000/207-210

207 and 208 are dependent on them being able to prove force or kidnapping. If they can't prove that, then they would have to fall back on 261.5(d), which is regular statutory rape, a much less serious charge. Basically if they can't directly link the Garrido's to the abduction, and if no one talks in court, then a single count of 261.5(d) against PG will be all they will have evidence for.
 
Natal could you be a bit more specific. You said code 261.5(d). You neglected, unless is is way earlier in this thread, to specify what code, State or federal.

I think the case is entirely under state jurisdiction, so it would all be state charges.
 
I think what is bothering me is your assumptions that Jaycee will not testify, that whether she does or not pg can not be convicted by her evidence without ng's testimony and that any juror would refuse to believe that a sexual "relationship" between an adult kidnapper and a child that is ages 11 to 14 and bore his child only proves parentage and not rape? Tell me what you would think if you witnessed the kidnapping of your 11 year old daughter by 2 adults in a car. What thoughts would go through your head? What fears would you have? Would you search for her? Would you talk to media and give interviews, begging for her safe return?

If she showed up years later, with two children, would you honestly believe she had consentual sex from the age of 11? How would you feel? What would you want to do to the animals that took your child? Who changed your life and that of your childs?

What would anyone on a jury think? If they have children and/or grandchildren, don't you think they would personalize this? Logic and emotion, compassion and anger does come into play for juries, even though it may not with defense lawyers. How many hung juries or incorrect verdicts have occured in this world? Jury emotion and logic, or lack thereof comes in to play because juries are human! They will be plied with information. They may be overwhelmed by witnesses. This deliberation will be governed by logic, emotion and pre-concieved notions. Again juries are human.

Ng and pg will get their day in court, with a jury of their peers, but don't discount that their peers will be Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents, siblings that will internalize and personalize this horrific crime!

I have never said that ng will not get a deal. I have often said she does not deserve it and I wish it wouldn't happen. I believe she should be punished equally to pg.

I am not assuming Jaycee won't testify, in fact I would be really surprised if she doesn't. However, the prosecution can't afford to take the chance that she might not, or that some other circumstance might happen that either prevented her from testifying or changed what she said in court at trial. The case is too important. That is why IMO they will probably do a deal with Nancy, record a guilty plea from her ASAP in exchange for a reasonable sentence from both parties point of view. That way they have the state's version of events locked in. All that is dependent on what exactly Nancy's role in all of this was of course, if it turns out that she was a major malevolent force they won't be able to do that, but most likely they will find that she is some weak willed pathetic personality. If she is that sort of person it is pretty unlikely that she would pose any sort of risk to society if she were to eventually be released. In any case, even with a deal she would still be looking at 10-15 years. By the time she got out she would be old, alone with no friends or family, with no money or assets, and would eventually die of old age homeless, dirty, cold and alone in some back alley. Her future is grim and her life basically over no matter what they do, the only glimmer of hope she would have is if Angel and Starlet have some affection for her. She will NOT be getting an easy out.

I'm all for punishing the guilty, but at some point insisting on continueing whipping the horse when it is beaten down just becomes sadism, and I would like to think that society in general is better than that.

As for all the other emotive stuff (which makes for poor debate style btw), sure, if Jaycee and/or Nancy testifies to that. But, if they don't, the jury will never hear of that. How can a jury reasonably return a guilty verdict on (for example) charge XIII if no evidence is presented that PG and JD had intercourse of any description sometime during that period, or that JD was even on the property at that time?
 
Part of the evidence is in fact the girls, unless you are suggesting they occurred by immaculate conception. As far as their birth dates. imo I believe they are actually known. To give birth is a major event in a woman's life. I am sure Jaycee knows the day, month, year, hour and minute of their births. When asked the girls gave their ages and also the age of their "older sister" so they know when they were born, and in some news link a few months ago it stated they were obtaining their birth certificates. And since Nancy was hoping that these were to be her girls, presents from her husband, their sperm donor, she would know this information also. And there is nothing to suggest they didn't celebrate their birthdays. I really do not believe their dates of birth are an issue.

Oh and there are people who said they talked to her between the fence. And also there is that month (noted news links give varying days that PG was incarcerated but he was definitely in Jail in April) where Nancy had full control of Jaycee.

I do agree with you on the fact she, Nancy, is hoping to make some sort of deal to lessen her time behind bars.
 
That description could match tens of thousands of other women in California, as could the description of the car. In itself it is coincidental, not definitive. It would be used as corroboration for other more unambigous evidence, such as Jaycee's direct testimony for example. Alternatively, if physical evidence was left at the scene that could match either Nancy or the car to the crime forensically, that could be used in place of Jaycee (or Nancy or PG's) testimony to link the Garrido's to the abduction, but as far as we know there isnt any such evidence. That leaves testimony from one of the principals to prove the kidnapping charge.

It would be better for the prosecution if they had shown Carl a line-up before Nancy's picture was published by the press, but as far as we know, that didn't happen. If they had done that, then his identification would carry weight. If they didn't, then it could be argued that he was identifying her after her picture was made publically known, in which case it would be useless, since he would be identifying the woman he saw on TV, not the woman in the car.

The other potential issue with Carl, as I pointed out earlier, is that he has recounted his story god knows how many times in public over the years, and unless it is 100% accurate in all those retellings the defense lawyers are going to use that to cast doubt on the accuracy of what he does eventually say in court. The moral of the story is that in these sorts of situations where you one day may be asked to testify on an incident that is very personal to you, tell it to LE when required to do so, but beyond that keep your mouth shut.
They have the car- it was in Garrido's back yard. We don't know that they didn't show Carl a photo line-up, his composite sketch of Nancy was a dead ringer.
 
Part of the evidence is in fact the girls, unless you are suggesting they occurred by immaculate conception. As far as their birth dates. imo I believe they are actually known. To give birth is a major event in a woman's life. I am sure Jaycee knows the day, month, year, hour and minute of their births. When asked the girls gave their ages and also the age of their "older sister" so they know when they were born, and in some news link a few months ago it stated they were obtaining their birth certificates. And since Nancy was hoping that these were to be her girls, presents from her husband, their sperm donor, she would know this information also. And there is nothing to suggest they didn't celebrate their birthdays. I really do not believe their dates of birth are an issue.

Oh and there are people who said they talked to her between the fence. And also there is that month (noted news links give varying days that PG was incarcerated but he was definitely in Jail in April) where Nancy had full control of Jaycee.

I do agree with you on the fact she, Nancy, is hoping to make some sort of deal to lessen her time behind bars.
Beyond Jaycee's recollection, her lawyer was in the process of obtaining birth certificates and social security numbers for the girls. In order to do that, they'd need exact dates. Also, a doctor or forensic anthropologist may be able to tell how old the girls are by physical examination.
 
I remember there was a news link saying that they were busy getting their birth certificates. I had forgotten that it also said their social security numbers. So I really do not think the dates of their birth can be a question. Just we, the general population, do not currently have that information. :)
 
I remember there was a news link saying that they were busy getting their birth certificates. I had forgotten that it also said their social security numbers. So I really do not think the dates of their birth can be a question. Just we, the general population, do not currently have that information. :)
I agree...
JC was very organized; I would never be surprised of anything she managed to do in that hovel. I imagine she had a little calendar with her kids BD in there.
What we don't know is not our business. :)

All we need to know is how soon the trial starts and how long the 2 persp will rot in jail.
Anything else is about thier privet world.
 
Beyond Jaycee's recollection, her lawyer was in the process of obtaining birth certificates and social security numbers for the girls. In order to do that, they'd need exact dates. Also, a doctor or forensic anthropologist may be able to tell how old the girls are by physical examination.

Linask I believe dental work is the best analogy of age.
I am sure that they all got full and thorough examinations. :)
 
Part of the evidence is in fact the girls, unless you are suggesting they occurred by immaculate conception. As far as their birth dates. imo I believe they are actually known. To give birth is a major event in a woman's life. I am sure Jaycee knows the day, month, year, hour and minute of their births. When asked the girls gave their ages and also the age of their "older sister" so they know when they were born, and in some news link a few months ago it stated they were obtaining their birth certificates. And since Nancy was hoping that these were to be her girls, presents from her husband, their sperm donor, she would know this information also. And there is nothing to suggest they didn't celebrate their birthdays. I really do not believe their dates of birth are an issue.

Oh and there are people who said they talked to her between the fence. And also there is that month (noted news links give varying days that PG was incarcerated but he was definitely in Jail in April) where Nancy had full control of Jaycee.

I do agree with you on the fact she, Nancy, is hoping to make some sort of deal to lessen her time behind bars.

You are totally correct.

IMHO there are always people in this world who just talk...they do not have to make sense, and they don't.
 
he kidnapped her, he raped her, he kept her captive against her will. he didnt take an 11 year old girl to wait 7 years for her to reach legal age. the theories are ridiculous that the defense could possible argue 1) age of consent 2) willing consent.
 
I doubt ANY jury will believe that both of Jaycee's children were born after she turned 18. There's just NO way those kids can be only 10 and 6, which is what they would have to be for JC to have ever consented.

PG for sure will spend the rest of his life behind bars, NG probably will too but it will take several years to know for sure so a troll can string us (those that demand justice) along for awhile. PG or NG will not walk on a technicality, that's why the prosecution is taking their time to make sure none of these BS defense arguments will work against the overwhelming evidence!
 
he kidnapped her, he raped her, he kept her captive against her will. he didnt take an 11 year old girl to wait 7 years for her to reach legal age. the theories are ridiculous that the defense could possible argue 1) age of consent 2) willing consent.

There are a lot of ridiculous theories in this world. Not everyone is sensible. JMHO
I find it kind of curious how much discussion there is about Nancy :loser: :twocents:
I think since the case will not come up for some time...NG will be rehashed for a couple of years. ;)

I doubt that anyone will buy the victim card....I think it is a very hard sell being she married the
SOB right in jail. So she knew what she was getting.
but it is possible that she may get a different verdict then he and end up in a Lonnie bin, in any case she is not going to be back out for a long, long time. She is toast. :) Ugly toast....JMO

I actually rather contemplate on what Terry will be writing about....I hope Terry is doing well,
a lot of new things for her to get adjusted to, and a lot of new feeling for her to digest.
I THINK HER BOOK WILL BE A SELL OUT really fast.
 
I doubt ANY jury will believe that both of Jaycee's children were born after she turned 18. There's just NO way those kids can be only 10 and 6, which is what they would have to be for JC to have ever consented.

PG for sure will spend the rest of his life behind bars, NG probably will too but it will take several years to know for sure so a troll can string us (those that demand justice) along for awhile. PG or NG will not walk on a technicality, that's why the prosecution is taking their time to make sure none of these BS defense arguments will work against the overwhelming evidence!
GOOD POST :clap::clap::clap:
 
I doubt ANY jury will believe that both of Jaycee's children were born after she turned 18. There's just NO way those kids can be only 10 and 6, which is what they would have to be for JC to have ever consented.
So true! What Natal is forgetting is that even if Jaycee eventually decided she liked sex-as does happen sometimes with sexual assault victims, she was still not old enough to give consent until she turned 18, and therefore it was statutory rape.
 

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