NANCY GRACE, Thursday, 12/18/08

[McSev]

Am I the only one who finds these segues between the horror of the Caylee situation and Nancy's bucolic baby snaps (cute though her kids may be) vaguely disturbing?

NO, you are not alone I'm like, huh?

 

[passionflower]

kc liked to play games, maybe she tossed an empty gray bag out also??

 

[FloridaKatz]

I agree, but everybody was supposedly looking for Caylee back then, so why when this utility worker calls in and says he found something, didn't somebody who was dressed for the environment go in and search ~ with the worker telling them exactly where the bag was? :waitasec: MOO

It would have either been because of timing, meaning the time the meter reader called it in was not during a time when TES was here searching, or he had no way of knowing HOW to get in touch with the searchers that were on the ground. Also recall after TES pulled out in August because of the high water from Fay, they all went back to Texas and then had to deal with Hurricane Ike which devastated Galveston Island. So they helped in Search and Rescue / Recovery there too.

If it were me, I would have drove to the OCSO office and sat there until someone listened to me, dressed full board for searching the area and then went back out with me, if I were that adamant about the area. I just keep going back to whether you could even get in there to search.

Tomorrow I'm going to build a database of the daily rain levels for Orlando, and see what the rain level would have been for August. Will post my findings tomorrow afternoon.

 

[kh1967]

No you're not the only one.

Please no one shoot me for asking this, but am I wrong or do her children have extremely large heads? I haven't been around babies in ages, maybe they all do.

lol:crazy:

 

[MomofBoys]

Am I the only one who finds these segues between the horror of the Caylee situation and Nancy's bucolic baby snaps (cute though her kids may be) vaguely disturbing?

LOL! Yeah, it's always like "A raccoon could have scattered little Caylee's bones...and because you asked, pictures of the twinnns."

 

[passionflower]

NG talking about autism now.no more Caylee

 

[jennyb]

It was a fairly new job for the meter reader and he's represented by counsel now - from Orlando Sentinel:

Steve Triggs, Director of Communications for Orange County, said the meter reader had been a county employee for a “relatively short time” and would appear at a news conference with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office Friday afternoon. Triggs said he is being represented by outside counsel at the County’s expense.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18311590/detail.html

 

[TURBOTHINK]

From what distance can a cadaver dog sniff out a body?

It depends on the wind, the ground factor and a number of things. The problem I have with the "cadaver dog" story checking that area, I believe the dogs were dogs the psychic Gale took and they are not trained.

I can find NO reference to any certified cadaver dogs being in that area. I have been reading for an hour looking for it and all I find about it even on obscure web sites is the reference to Gale's dogs.

We search in grids, I don't know how other teams search. When we were there in November, the areas we were in were so heavy it took machetes to get 10 ft at a time and although the dogs could navigate better than us, even they had a terrible time. We had paw cuts, leg cuts, an eye cut, and numerous other things with the dogs which prevented us from covering large areas at a time. We "MIGHT" and I say might have covered that area of woods in a week's time if we did it correctly. It really depends on how large the area is as compared to the photos and how steep and thick it was.

It seems so simple to say "the dogs should have found her", but the truth is the terrain you saw in the videos where people walked in fields was not what most searchers or dogs had to search. Dogs could have been very close, but not got a scent because the the wind turned or even because the bag had very little smell at that time, or that bag may have had lime in it. Who knows? But, it is not as simple as everyone makes it sound.

 

[cyberborg]

August 11 - meter reader reported seeing bag but did not stay at scene. Officer came to area but did not find

August 12 - meter reader reported again and it went through to a different department - officers looked through records thought "cleared" by dogs.

August 13 - meter reader reported again - Officer responds - this day being investigated for follow through.

I read that the meter reader did not see the bag in August, only reported a foul odor and didn't seem right.

I had also read that there was a report, cadaver dogs searched, animal remains were found and, the area was considered cleared. They did not search further.

Seems like LE was not coping well with tips and this was bungled because they felt the animal remains discovery was it -- so dismissed.

 

[doogiesgirl]

No you're not the only one.

Please no one shoot me for asking this, but am I wrong or do her children have extremely large heads? I haven't been around babies in ages, maybe they all do.

Ok no one shoot me either but that made me chuckle!

 

[gibby207]

No you're not the only one.

Please no one shoot me for asking this, but am I wrong or do her children have extremely large heads? I haven't been around babies in ages, maybe they all do.

Don't shoot me for this but, I noticed that too. I happen to know that Irish have large heads.... LOL (am part Irish)

 

[irishinme]

I don't believe for an instant there is any kind of conspiracy with the meter reader. Let's not even go there!

Since we don't know specifics and as NG reports LE checked the 'general' area, how's this for a theory:

When the meter reader (I'll refer to him as MR) initially found the trash bag he suspected it was worthy enough of reporting as a potential lead as he probably heard about Caylee missing and it is close to the A home. Since LE didn't make a find, the MR didn't think any more of it ...until he was seeing Caylee remained unfound.

He was assigned out and then reassigned to the area. Perhaps, he did a few work rounds through the neighborhood, which reminded him of the suspicious find back in August. He got a lingering nagging feeling to investigate (LP's idea on NG about divine intervention). He refound the bag, checked it out just to see for himself what it was. And, the rest is history.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to learn how the meter reader's story unfolds.

Let's not throw the MR under the bus.

 

[Chilly Willy]

It depends on the wind, the ground factor and a number of things. The problem I have with the "cadaver dog" story checking that area, I believe the dogs were dogs the psychic Gale took and they are not trained.

I can find NO reference to any certified cadaver dogs being in that area. I have been reading for an hour looking for it and all I find about it even on obscure web sites is the reference to Gale's dogs.

We search in grids, I don't know how other teams search. When we were there in November, the areas we were in were so heavy it took machetes to get 10 ft at a time and although the dogs could navigate better than us, even they had a terrible time. We had paw cuts, leg cuts, an eye cut, and numerous other things with the dogs which prevented us from covering large areas at a time. We "MIGHT" and I say might have covered that area of woods in a week's time if we did it correctly. It really depends on how large the area is as compared to the photos and how steep and thick it was.

It seems so simple to say "the dogs should have found her", but the truth is the terrain you saw in the videos where people walked in fields was not what most searchers or dogs had to search. Dogs could have been very close, but not got a scent because the the wind turned or even because the bag had very little smell at that time, or that bag may have had lime in it. Who knows? But, it is not as simple as everyone makes it sound.

Thank you, Turbo. If the meter reader actually did smell something, which is what the reports seem to indicate, wouldn't the dogs have also smelled it, even from a certain distance? How would a dog react if he got wind of a scent but couldn't get through the brush to hit on it?

I agree, I don't have much faith in Gale's dogs either.

 

[faefrost]

She got on Natisha. Poor girl. LP being bashed by NG now for saying the situation with the meter reader is weird. He really thought God had a hand in it, now he's not sure who guided him back on Dec. 11.

Common sense? A nagging hunch? A normal routine that included slipping into the woods to releave himself?

How many times did LP go over the same area in the park looking for some cross and beads, and being positive that the body was there?

 

[cyberborg]

Perhaps the body wasnt always in that exact spot where the body was found. Could it be possible that the body was further back in the dense woods and small animals dragged the remains to the edge of the wooded area. This makes sense to me considering they have to keep expanding the search area due to finding all these small bones further in the woods. This would also explain why the area was originally search by the LE and did not find anything. I think the body was there from the beginning and only moved by the animals.

.... or water. With the flooding and this being an area that gets runoff from streets, as it flooded it could have both flushed out the bones and moved them to the edges of the flooding. As the water receded they were deposited all over.

I see the fact that they are still discovering bones in such a large area with difficulty that the remains have been there a long time and they can probably tell how long. That together with date/time of death and, hopefully, cause of death will nail KC.

 

[FloridaKatz]

Forensic entomologist: Insects develop at a known rate based on temperature--will be able to tell when remains were colonized. Aquatic and land based insects will give timeline.

DH says in the end, this may come down to the battle of the "Bug Men".

:frog::bee::frog::frog:

 

[gooniequeen]

what meter was he reading there? Arent' meters attached to houses? mine is.

 

[panthera]

It would have either been because of timing, meaning the time the meter reader called it in was not during a time when TES was here searching, or he had no way of knowing HOW to get in touch with the searchers that were on the ground. Also recall after TES pulled out in August because of the high water from Fay, they all went back to Texas and then had to deal with Hurricane Ike which devastated Galveston Island. So they helped in Search and Rescue / Recovery there too.

If it were me, I would have drove to the OCSO office and sat there until someone listened to me, dressed full board for searching the area and then went back out with me, if I were that adamant about the area. I just keep going back to whether you could even get in there to search.

Tomorrow I'm going to build a database of the daily rain levels for Orlando, and see what the rain level would have been for August. Will post my findings tomorrow afternoon.

I'm not even talking about TES and the hurricane didn't hit until the 20th (from what was said tonight). If LE responded in such a timely manner when this guy called last week, what happened with them finding the bag back in August? The guy obviously would've seen it and called them so couldn't he have led them right to it back then? I'm still confused! Thanks in advance though for the project you're working on!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I read that the meter reader did not see the bag in August, only reported a foul odor and didn't seem right.

I had also read that there was a report, cadaver dogs searched, animal remains were found and, the area was considered cleared. They did not search further.

Seems like LE was not coping well with tips and this was bungled because they felt the animal remains discovery was it -- so dismissed.

LE was also being scrutinized, as I recall, for not responding to enough "alive" sightings -- I'm sure their manpower was waaaay overtaxed. . . Too sad!

 

[Pattymarie]

In retrospect...my "hinky meter" was up with the way the body was found and the fact that we haven't heard the meter reader's name this past week and how long it has taken to give ID to the remains. Still believe it was all KC...but still was this just a guy who's beat was in the A neighborhood and was an "amateur sleuther" from the area?