SuziQ
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That's exactly what I've been thinking. Why would someone sit by himself in the back seat when there is an empty seat up front?
NC - Eve Carson, 22, UNC student, shot to death, Chapel Hill, 5 March 2008 - #1
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That's exactly what I've been thinking. Why would someone sit by himself in the back seat when there is an empty seat up front?
SeriouslySearching
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I think she was probably in the backseat with him and not the cargo hold, personally. He needed control over her and they have not mentioned any form of restaints used. The man in the backseat probably had her right next to him while holding her. (If she was even alive at that point. It is possible she wasn't anywhere near the vehicle at the ATM.)
nanandjim
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Could it be, like someone said, that the guy in the front was the backseat guy's flunky and his driver? I would think that if you were a gang member that you would be less of a target and less visible in the backseat. Your driver is more of a target.
I don't know if Eve was in the vehicle. If they were successful in getting the cash, I would think that they had to keep her alive long enough to get her PIN number.
The entire situation is very scary and very sad. I think that these thugs were probably cruising around looking for a victim to rob. Perhaps, they know that college kids come and go at all hours of the night. They may have seen a group leave, but I imagine that they would be looking for a lone person to rob because it would be easier. One of the morals is to travel in groups and try not to be out late at night. Sad that you have to worry about this, but criminals roam under the cover of darkness.
They would have had to take the time to get the PIN number. If there is someone in that back seat, then I can only think that they are back there to hold on to her. They may have held her until they were sure that they had the correct PIN number. I'm sure about anything but that they would have had to take time to get the PIN number.
raisincharlie
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Sweetmop
Something tells me that since the time at the ATM is not being reported or the location that there is a very good possibility that Eve was in the vehicle and still alive. They may have promised to let her go inexchange for the pin number. Of course the only way they could verify her truthfulness would be to try it before they murdered her. Just a gut feeling since a lot of details are not being said.
The problem it seems to me is she spoke the truth and they lied.
newshound81
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I feel the same way on your last point. We tend to expect crime in "bad," poor, areas, but it makes sense that they targeted this nice, collegetown area, where they are better cars and possibly more money to steal. I only wonder if someone saw a suspicious car the night of the murder. These people had to have been lurking or driving around to some extent, and it muts have looked very out of place.
newshound81
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You know, Charlie, I kept wondering about the discrepancy in the times released in the media. Eve was apparently last seen at home at around 1:30, yet the neighbors near where she was found didn't hear shots until the 5 a.m. hour. Maybe they did have her in the car for a while.
Also, I asked the same question in the Lauren Burk thread: where was the perp(s) car? It sounds like they may have traveled to Eve's neighborhood to commit their crime. How did they get there, and if they drove, what happened to that vehicle? Was it left parked somewhere while Eve was held in her own car? I know it was very early in the morning, but this lack of seeing anything suspicious between 1:30 and 5 a.m. is baffling to me.
I hate to think this may be the way in which this played out, but you may very well be right here, RC.
So horrible to think of the hoorror Eve may have endured, then be murdered and thrown to the street.
I hope these animals are soon brought to justice for this!
I think you are very right! And under those horrific circumstances, you have to wonder if Eve was avoiding giving them the right PIN number or was she so scared that she COULD NOT give them the number. If I were kidnapped, I am not so sure I could keep my mind straight. As an adult, I would have a very tough time, Eve was really just a kid. She was so used to being in control, I hope she wasn't trying to outsmart them. That would have only made them mad. Guessing by how the several shots she endured, they were pretty outraged. One bullet to the head probably would have been enough!
close_enough
Inactive
thanks for posting this..obvious there's someone in the back seat on the passengers side, even in the black & white ATM photo...hard to believe this guy in front didn't try to hide his face better....the way his hair sticks out, it's obvious he has a head full...someone's got to know who this guy is.....
It's a hard timeline to reconstruct on such scant data as we have. My guess is they took her around 0430 at or near her car, went to the ATM, and went back to her neighborhood and shot her. They then left her car and took a car they had left earlier when they took her. Reasons I don't believe she was killed immediatly as her car was taken:
1 Second man in backseat who wouldn't be needed at all if she were already dead, much less lurking suspiciously in back with a free passenger front seat open.
2 The neighborhood where she was shot is away from her home. What was she doing at 0500 in that place, esp since it doesn't look from the aerial map to be on her way to work, for them to carjack and kill her there?
Thoughts?
c6
Trino
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336283,00.html
Gang related? This is, undoubtedly, why no one is stepping forward for the reward. $25,000 is not enough for your life.
Gang related? This is, undoubtedly, why no one is stepping forward for the reward. $25,000 is not enough for your life.
Fox did a live report at 2 est, about the possible gang involvement of this crime. The reporter kept repeating it was a 'possible' gang related crime.
Makes me sick. The perp's face is so identifiable, no doubt his gang friends are hiding him.
Makes me sick. The perp's face is so identifiable, no doubt his gang friends are hiding him.
Dwight Schrute
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Hey guys, haven't been on in a while I guess since the Kelsey Smith case...(work, new baby and all has kept me busy).
For some reason when I first heard about this I thought of the loss to everyone that Eve could have helped and that just frustrated me the most
. So i'm here to talk and maybe share my opinions:
1) Someone stole my thunder about thinking about the car. Why would they take her car and how did they get to her place?? Those are questions that need to be answered and i'm sure the police are looking at other surv camera's around the area to see if they can see something else, like a car following them, or someone picking them up where the car was found.
Was this a car jacking or did they see her on her way to the car?? The LE say's no forced entry could be seen, but if the perp's saw the friends leave they could have thought the place was empty and knocked to make sure and she could have answered the door thinking it was her friends....who knows really...i'm just tossing out ideas!!
2) If you wanted to rob someone late at night there is no better place then a college campus. NO WAY these guys go to school at UNC and they would have no clue who she was before hand.
Also, if you were going to attack someone who is a weaker or an easier target, a women with out-of-state tags would be the first. She would have no family close and who knows how long she would have been in school and might not know a whole lot of people which would make her an easier target. Once again, just ideas because I don't want to give these perp's too much credit in the "smart" catagory, just ideas to help discussion.
3) I give you guys a lot of credit for seeing the other person in the back seat. I guess it worries me that people like us can see it and LE blew it off or didn't even notice at first. There is only ONE reason for a person to be sitting in the back and that's to keep Eve under control. I don't think he is a gang leader and some newbie gang guy is driving him around. I'm sure the larger guy would sit in back for better control.
4) I'm sure someone knows who this perp is and it's a sad world when certain people wont come forward because they could be a rat. What a sick culture that has developed for some in this country.
Also, one last note.....here is something I was told by a local detective who works these type of investigations. Follow the reward money!! If in the next few days or weeks it increases to $50,000 or more, the LE doesn't have any quality leads. They will hope the increase brings in better ones or the one they can arrest on. IF they don't raise it especially in a high profile case like this it usually means they have someone in mind and it wont be long until an arrest is made. As with any investigation all the good info is kept locked up, but he said this is a good judge for the public to see if they have anything creditable.
He says with this guys picture out there it shouldn't be too long before an old teacher, or old PO see's this and points him out.
For some reason when I first heard about this I thought of the loss to everyone that Eve could have helped and that just frustrated me the most
. So i'm here to talk and maybe share my opinions:1) Someone stole my thunder about thinking about the car. Why would they take her car and how did they get to her place?? Those are questions that need to be answered and i'm sure the police are looking at other surv camera's around the area to see if they can see something else, like a car following them, or someone picking them up where the car was found.
Was this a car jacking or did they see her on her way to the car?? The LE say's no forced entry could be seen, but if the perp's saw the friends leave they could have thought the place was empty and knocked to make sure and she could have answered the door thinking it was her friends....who knows really...i'm just tossing out ideas!!
2) If you wanted to rob someone late at night there is no better place then a college campus. NO WAY these guys go to school at UNC and they would have no clue who she was before hand.
Also, if you were going to attack someone who is a weaker or an easier target, a women with out-of-state tags would be the first. She would have no family close and who knows how long she would have been in school and might not know a whole lot of people which would make her an easier target. Once again, just ideas because I don't want to give these perp's too much credit in the "smart" catagory, just ideas to help discussion.
3) I give you guys a lot of credit for seeing the other person in the back seat. I guess it worries me that people like us can see it and LE blew it off or didn't even notice at first. There is only ONE reason for a person to be sitting in the back and that's to keep Eve under control. I don't think he is a gang leader and some newbie gang guy is driving him around. I'm sure the larger guy would sit in back for better control.
4) I'm sure someone knows who this perp is and it's a sad world when certain people wont come forward because they could be a rat. What a sick culture that has developed for some in this country.
Also, one last note.....here is something I was told by a local detective who works these type of investigations. Follow the reward money!! If in the next few days or weeks it increases to $50,000 or more, the LE doesn't have any quality leads. They will hope the increase brings in better ones or the one they can arrest on. IF they don't raise it especially in a high profile case like this it usually means they have someone in mind and it wont be long until an arrest is made. As with any investigation all the good info is kept locked up, but he said this is a good judge for the public to see if they have anything creditable.
He says with this guys picture out there it shouldn't be too long before an old teacher, or old PO see's this and points him out.
That kind of overkill (pistol and shotgun) marks this as more than your carjack for the car and ATM goodies we usually see. My thoughts:
1 Gang wannabe punks who lost control of the sitiation
2 Gang initiation
3 Gang contract killing with ATM ruse
4 Contract killing with gang disguises
Why aren't they telling whether the ATM transaction went through??
Possibly because that's a detail only the killer would know.
c6
SuziQ
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Bumping this up for sweetmop, she got the prize! Way to go!
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Hey guys, haven't been on in a while I guess since the Kelsey Smith case...(work, new baby and all has kept me busy).
For some reason when I first heard about this I thought of the loss to everyone that Eve could have helped and that just frustrated me the most
1) Someone stole my thunder about thinking about the car. Why would they take her car and how did they get to her place?? Those are questions that need to be answered and i'm sure the police are looking at other surv camera's around the area to see if they can see something else, like a car following them, or someone picking them up where the car was found.
Was this a car jacking or did they see her on her way to the car?? The LE say's no forced entry could be seen, but if the perp's saw the friends leave they could have thought the place was empty and knocked to make sure and she could have answered the door thinking it was her friends....who knows really...i'm just tossing out ideas!!
2) If you wanted to rob someone late at night there is no better place then a college campus. NO WAY these guys go to school at UNC and they would have no clue who she was before hand.
Also, if you were going to attack someone who is a weaker or an easier target, a women with out-of-state tags would be the first. She would have no family close and who knows how long she would have been in school and might not know a whole lot of people which would make her an easier target. Once again, just ideas because I don't want to give these perp's too much credit in the "smart" catagory, just ideas to help discussion.
Good point. That means they knew her beforehand and were willing to take the heat of the death of a high-profile student or they happened by as someone got into an SUV with OOS plate.
3) I give you guys a lot of credit for seeing the other person in the back seat. I guess it worries me that people like us can see it and LE blew it off or didn't even notice at first. There is only ONE reason for a person to be sitting in the back and that's to keep Eve under control. I don't think he is a gang leader and some newbie gang guy is driving him around. I'm sure the larger guy would sit in back for better control.
It was a WS group effort to identify a second passenger. We agree re; the control issue explaining the goon in the back seat.
4) I'm sure someone knows who this perp is and it's a sad world when certain people wont come forward because they could be a rat. What a sick culture that has developed for some in this country.
Also, one last note.....here is something I was told by a local detective who works these type of investigations. Follow the reward money!! If in the next few days or weeks it increases to $50,000 or more, the LE doesn't have any quality leads. They will hope the increase brings in better ones or the one they can arrest on. IF they don't raise it especially in a high profile case like this it usually means they have someone in mind and it wont be long until an arrest is made. As with any investigation all the good info is kept locked up, but he said this is a good judge for the public to see if they have anything creditable.
He says with this guys picture out there it shouldn't be too long before an old teacher, or old PO see's this and points him out.
Wecome back. Thanks for the reward money insight.
c6
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