NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[Webthrush]

There is no rhyme or reason to these random thoughts and JMO. Would love some feedback.

A. Do we know if JL, employee of Red Robin, spoke with LE? Did LE check into JL and CW,man who worked at Thrill and helped ID a few of the POI's while looking at video footage of Thrill, apartment they shared? They lived off Old Chapel Hill Rd just in a different apartment complex.

B. Was JL the only employee LE looked into who worked at Red Robin? Maybe there was another coworker that had been harassing Faith. Could this other coworker have been married? Maybe Faith threatened to tell the spouse if the coworker didn't stop with unwanted advances. Or maybe someone close to Faith knew about this coworker and decided on their own to out what was going on either to protect Faith or embarrass Faith.

C. There are several undocumented Latino workers working in kitchens across the US...I wonder about Red Robin or Thrill or TimeOut. I wonder how far someone would go if their "citizenship" was being threatened...to help cover up a crime or commit one.

D. From SM it appears both Faith and KR enjoyed watching Law and Order:SVU...between that and having an active restraining order I cannot get passed the leaving the door unlocked.

E. DB's weird reaction to the photo LE shows him of Faith. Do we know the context of the photo? Was it after she was found with all the injuries? Or, could it have been that on the night of the Thrill that DB witnessed some drama go down between Faith and other people and being that he was in law school at NCCU told Faith that he wasn't interested in getting involved in drama...now he feels bad because maybe he feels like he could have protected her?

F. JB's incident report from 9/7/12...what was it?! LE looked more into him when they realized the address he lived at was the same one KR went to with JM. While looking more into him is when they found the incident report from 2010.

G. I have also wondered if they found any cigarette butts outside or inside? I ask because I know both girls were underage yet had alcohol...I wonder if a little marijuana smoking was also being done...

H. Maybe no one is coming forward because they have a child and don't want to leave them or have harm come their way. Maybe it's a couple who has a child. Maybe they are married and can't testify against one another anyway.

As always, just my thoughts and JMO.

ETA: more to add on


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Unfortunately, I don’t think many of your questions have specific answers in any of the officially-released documents. Again, I have heard that LE believes it has contacted virtually all male contacts/acquaintances FH had both at her workplace and beyond and they’ve all passed scrutiny (of course there could always be a customer who took a fancy to FH, unbeknownst to her). There could also be someone who was an acquaintance of Karena or Eric, but hardly known to FH, who is involved.
I just feel like we’re pretty stymied for now until police come out with their yearly statement around the September anniversary date. And if once again they have nothing much new to add, it will be hard to see (despite their protestations) how this is not a cold case — hopefully, maybe, they WILL have something new to add this year, but we're ~6 wks. away from knowing.

 

[Woof357]

I was reading this thread, and it would be hard to take all this in without some serious research time, but I do have one observation. The message on the take out bag has been reported to read from top to bottom

"Im not Stupid, ***** jealous"

should be read

"Jealous *****, I'm not Stupid".

I apologize if this has been noted before.

Also, I think more attention should be paid to the transcripts of the phone message seen in an earlier post.

 

[Skigirl]

I was reading this thread, and it would be hard to take all this in without some serious research time, but I do have one observation. The message on the take out bag has been reported to read from top to bottom

"Im not Stupid, ***** jealous"

should be read

"Jealous *****, I'm not Stupid".

I apologize if this has been noted before.

Also, I think more attention should be paid to the transcripts of the phone message seen in an earlier post.

I think there may be two messages on the bag. One that says, "I'm not Jealous" and the other that says, "Stupid b*tch". Maybe one written first, and then the other after. I have always thought that even though it's not a popular view.

 

[CADwrest]

I think there may be two messages on the bag. One that says, "I'm not Jealous" and the other that says, "Stupid b*tch". Maybe one written first, and then the other after. I have always thought that even though it's not a popular view.

If "Stupid B****" is a later addition, why would it not be written on the same line, though?

Speaking of the note, earlier in the thread, there was discussion that maybe the note was something Faith and a friend were writing to each other, just being playful. I liked that idea because it explained the disjointedness. But if that were the case, wouldn’t that friend have told police that the message had nothing to do with the murder? And it also doesn’t account for the contact DNA on the pen matching the semen.

My personal theory up until now was that the note didn’t reflect anything the killer actually felt, but showed that the killer knew something about the drama going on between KR and ETJ and was trying to direct attention there. But I wonder if it even shows that much. Isn’t it a safe bet that a 19 year old college student is going to have someone in their circle that’s jealous of them in some way? It might not show any insider information at all.

 

[Whiskers16]

Speaking of the note, earlier in the thread, there was discussion that maybe the note was something Faith and a friend were writing to each other, just being playful. I liked that idea because it explained the disjointedness. But if that were the case, wouldn’t that friend have told police that the message had nothing to do with the murder? And it also doesn’t account for the contact DNA on the pen matching the semen.

rsbm. I'm not sure if someone would come forward about being involved with the note, knowing it was unrelated to the murder. Depending on the stage of the investigation and what LE/MSM had released.. that note was placed at the murder scene and has no blood on it. Would I trust police not to charge me with murder if I admitted I was involved with the note but claimed it wasn't related to the murder? not sure.

 

[CADwrest]

F. JB's incident report from 9/7/12...what was it?! LE looked more into him when they realized the address he lived at was the same one KR went to with JM. While looking more into him is when they found the incident report from 2010.

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the only incident report was the one you referenced, from 2010 (the whole thing about him threatening his mom’s boyfriend). I thought all that happened on 9/7/2012 was that his cell phone pinged the tower near the girls’ apartment, which LE noticed later when they did the cell tower dump.


He said he was at home asleep and never went over there. I wonder if he simply left his cell phone in JM’s car or something.

 

[Simplestarz86]

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the only incident report was the one you referenced, from 2010 (the whole thing about him threatening his mom’s boyfriend). I thought all that happened on 9/7/2012 was that his cell phone pinged the tower near the girls’ apartment, which LE noticed later when they did the cell tower dump.


He said he was at home asleep and never went over there. I wonder if he simply left his cell phone in JM’s car or something.

I could be wrong too...from the documentcloud documents I linked a few posts back on page 109/118..."Lt.Smith did some more research on REDACTED and discovered another incident report involving him from the year 2010 (CHPD REDACTED)..."


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[Woof357]

Searching some of the posts, I see no mention of a time of death. In several of the news reports they state she had been dead for "several hours" when she was found. Is it possible the police examiner did not calculate a time of death? This little detail would go a long way into clearing suspects or breaking down alibis.

Also, was the apartment dusted for fingerprints? Of course you would expect finger prints from FH and KR.

Same for the DNA, its not clear if DNA profiles for FH and KR were established along with the DNA of the alleged perpetrator.

Looking at the few crime scene photos I could find (views of the living room), I see no blood trails or splatter there. With the level of brutality of this crime you would expect some blood to be carried into other parts of the apartment, footprints or droplets, etc. Suggests to me the attacker was very careful or cleaned themselves up somehow. If this was a spontaneous event you might expect a movement of blood and tissue out of the bedroom and into other parts of the apartment (such as the bathroom). If planned precautions might have been taken to prevent this from happening, and to limit as much as possible the spread of the blood and the deposit of DNA on surfaces. If its true that DNA was found on the note and pen(?), than its unlikely the attacker was wearing gloves, another sign of a spontaneous event.

Last point for this post, violent attackers of women, particularly the level seen in this event, often have past histories of violence against women and more likely than not strike again.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Searching some of the posts, I see no mention of a time of death. In several of the news reports they state she had been dead for "several hours" when she was found. Is it possible the police examiner did not calculate a time of death? This little detail would go a long way into clearing suspects or breaking down alibis.

Also, was the apartment dusted for fingerprints? Of course you would expect finger prints from FH and KR.

Same for the DNA, its not clear if DNA profiles for FH and KR were established along with the DNA of the alleged perpetrator.

Looking at the few crime scene photos I could find (views of the living room), I see no blood trails or splatter there. With the level of brutality of this crime you would expect some blood to be carried into other parts of the apartment, footprints or droplets, etc. Suggests to me the attacker was very careful or cleaned themselves up somehow. If this was a spontaneous event you might expect a movement of blood and tissue out of the bedroom and into other parts of the apartment (such as the bathroom). If planned precautions might have been taken to prevent this from happening, and to limit as much as possible the spread of the blood and the deposit of DNA on surfaces. If its true that DNA was found on the note and pen(?), than its unlikely the attacker was wearing gloves, another sign of a spontaneous event.

Last point for this post, violent attackers of women, particularly the level seen in this event, often have past histories of violence against women and more likely than not strike again.

1. A time of death has never been said. It isn't recorded on the autopsy. Maybe on the death certificate? I haven't seen that.

2. I do not know if apartment was dusted for prints. If it was as you said both Faith and KR would be there no doubt but ETJ and BME's prints would be there too. IMO

3. I have had the same thought about the crime scene...other than the obvious pooled blood and splatter on the wall-I haven't seen or read that there was more throughout the apartment which is what I would expect if perpetrator didn't clean up...if they did clean up how would they know they would have time to clean up??? Also in documents police state there were no obvious signs of a struggle, just a cluttered apartment.

4. Definitely agree that whoever committed this crime probably has a history of violence against women. As long as this person is on the streets no one is safe.


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[Skigirl]

If "Stupid B****" is a later addition, why would it not be written on the same line, though?

Speaking of the note, earlier in the thread, there was discussion that maybe the note was something Faith and a friend were writing to each other, just being playful. I liked that idea because it explained the disjointedness. But if that were the case, wouldn’t that friend have told police that the message had nothing to do with the murder? And it also doesn’t account for the contact DNA on the pen matching the semen.

My personal theory up until now was that the note didn’t reflect anything the killer actually felt, but showed that the killer knew something about the drama going on between KR and ETJ and was trying to direct attention there. But I wonder if it even shows that much. Isn’t it a safe bet that a 19 year old college student is going to have someone in their circle that’s jealous of them in some way? It might not show any insider information at all.

It's sort of hard to know for sure because I don't think we've ever been shown a picture of the whole bag, just the piece where there is writing. But to me, when I look at the note, it looks like "I'M NOT JEALOUS" is all written slightly to the left. Then "STUPID" looks like it's written at a slightly different angle than "I'M NOT". Then "*****" is a little bigger than "JEALOUS" and "JEALOUS" is a little bigger than "I'M NOT". So I am imagining that this is someone who writes the last word a little bigger than the others for emphasis. And he (I presume it's a 'he') did not do a lot of spatial planning or worrying about what any of these scrawlings were going to look like, so wrote the first phrase to take up a lot of the writable part of the bag. Then, after that at some point, maybe he's been cleaning up in the bathroom, or trying to wipe away some fingerprints or something, comes back, and just before dropping the note, is even angrier and writes "STUPID *****" in a fit of rage, again without worrying too much about what the scrawlings on the bag look like. Maybe the bag had to be smooshed down to fit the second phrase and that is why the angle is weird on the word "stupid".

The note is for Faith, who's dead, and for the killer who knows what (s)he is trying to say, so the way the layout isn't important to him (or her).

 

[CADwrest]

It's sort of hard to know for sure because I don't think we've ever been shown a picture of the whole bag, just the piece where there is writing..

If you go to the thread attachments, the one that is labeled "Screenshot 2017-06-02 at 7.49.02 AM" has a picture of the entire bag.

 

[Webthrush]

If you go to the thread attachments, the one that is labeled "Screenshot 2017-06-02 at 7.49.02 AM" has a picture of the entire bag.

I don't think I'm familiar with this -- is there a place to click to go to all thread attachments? If so, can you describe how to get there?

 

[CADwrest]

I don't think I'm familiar with this -- is there a place to click to go to all thread attachments? If so, can you describe how to get there?

Hmm... the only way I know to find it is to find the thread in the list of threads in the forum. It'll have three little icons (a tag, a paper clip, and a check mark if you've subscribed to it). Click the paper clip and it will bring up the attachments. Strangely, I don't know how to find them again once you've clicked into the thread.

I've been meaning to ask you, Webthrush: Could you possibly scan in the autopsy report? I think you're the only one on the thread who has it, and I believe LE won't release it to non-family since you got your copy.

 

[WebWoman]

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the only incident report was the one you referenced, from 2010 (the whole thing about him threatening his mom’s boyfriend). I thought all that happened on 9/7/2012 was that his cell phone pinged the tower near the girls’ apartment, which LE noticed later when they did the cell tower dump.


He said he was at home asleep and never went over there. I wonder if he simply left his cell phone in JM’s car or something.

I doubt a murderer would volunteer to state that he was at the scene of a murder, IMO.

 

[WebWoman]

I don't think I'm familiar with this -- is there a place to click to go to all thread attachments? If so, can you describe how to get there?

Here's a pic I found online.

Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...h/news-story/d00a659bca9898ecaba4eab97091f9a2

I would imagine a basic handwriting expert could match up the writing to a person or at least narrow it down from the suspects. Plus in my opinion it definitely looks like a girl's handwriting which tends to be curvy and bubbly imo.

Also, I didn't know she found her body badly beaten wearing only a black t-shirt covering her face (I'm guessing this means the rest of her body is naked). That is very disturbing. It doesn't say anything about a sexual assault other than semen collected but again that could have been from an earlier time for all we know. Is this confirmed? I still don't understand whether or not she was for sure raped based on different accounts I read. This article is from 2014 so I don't know if there are updates to the fact that it says 2 of Faith's former boyfriends refused to give DNA samples, but nonetheless that's still 2 years after the murder and 2 of her ex's hadn't given dna samples to compare to blood found under her nails and semen.

 

[Webthrush]

<snip>...

I've been meaning to ask you, Webthrush: Could you possibly scan in the autopsy report? I think you're the only one on the thread who has it, and I believe LE won't release it to non-family since you got your copy.

I'm sure there are several folks here with the autopsy report (unless they've left this 'cold' case by now); I have a hard copy I can't scan, but will look for the pdf copy buried on my computer somewhere, this weekend, and try to attach it to a post -- I think it's essentially a public document (at least the coroner was giving it out for free originally), but if anyone knows a reason I SHOULDN'T attach it here let me know in next 24 hrs.!
As to the bag, it's of course been given many interpretations over the yrs. none of which make a whole lot of sense; indeed some think it's a deliberate red herring specifically concocted only to mislead the police (I'm not in that camp, but just saying that's how widely opinions differ).

 

[Sillybilly]

Please pay attention to The Rules, and specifically Etiquette & Information, which states in part:

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

:tyou:

ETA:

On another note, could you please hold off uploading the autopsy report until we have time to review the matter.

Even though the report was initially available to the public, the fact the coroner has now determined it should not be available to non-family, it may not be appropriate to have it in the thread.

 

[CADwrest]

<snipped>
As to the bag, it's of course been given many interpretations over the yrs. none of which make a whole lot of sense; indeed some think it's a deliberate red herring specifically concocted only to mislead the police (I'm not in that camp, but just saying that's how widely opinions differ).

The reason I think the note is a red herring is because there's a certain deliberateness about it: It's clean, and wasn't handled immediately after the murder.
It was deliberately placed with the body, where it would absolutely be found.
The killer, even if furious with Faith, had literally just bludgeoned her to death; if that didn't sate his anger, scrawling out a final insult at her surely wouldn't either.
The killer clearly intended for it to be found, so I don't think its message should be taken at face value. The killer would want attention directed away from him, so I don't believe the message reflects a sentiment that he felt at all.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Here's a pic I found online.

Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...h/news-story/d00a659bca9898ecaba4eab97091f9a2

I would imagine a basic handwriting expert could match up the writing to a person or at least narrow it down from the suspects. Plus in my opinion it definitely looks like a girl's handwriting which tends to be curvy and bubbly imo.

Also, I didn't know she found her body badly beaten wearing only a black t-shirt covering her face (I'm guessing this means the rest of her body is naked). That is very disturbing. It doesn't say anything about a sexual assault other than semen collected but again that could have been from an earlier time for all we know. Is this confirmed? I still don't understand whether or not she was for sure raped based on different accounts I read. This article is from 2014 so I don't know if there are updates to the fact that it says 2 of Faith's former boyfriends refused to give DNA samples, but nonetheless that's still 2 years after the murder and 2 of her ex's hadn't given dna samples to compare to blood found under her nails and semen.

The article you attached says 2 of Faith's ROOMMATE'S (KR) former boyfriends.


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[WebWoman]

The reason I think the note is a red herring is because there's a certain deliberateness about it: It's clean, and wasn't handled immediately after the murder.
It was deliberately placed with the body, where it would absolutely be found.
The killer, even if furious with Faith, had literally just bludgeoned her to death; if that didn't sate his anger, scrawling out a final insult at her surely wouldn't either.
The killer clearly intended for it to be found, so I don't think its message should be taken at face value. The killer would want attention directed away from him, so I don't believe the message reflects a sentiment that he felt at all.

There are lots and lots of murderers who intentionally make a statement. Don't forget the murderer was obviously upset at her about something to have taken away her life unless you want to believe it was a complete stranger brazen enough to kill her in her own home risking neighbors to hear, anyone walking in and risking their freedom for the rest of their life by doing it on the spur of the moment in a stranger's own home with so much risk for no particular reason vs someone so upset at her such as being so full of jealousy which is one of the biggest reasons for a murder. Most killers do something to leave their mark for example I've read of serial killers who pose the body a certain way as their trademark or leave an object as a clue to state it was them without revealing their identity. I read in articles LE believe the note was left by the killer and I agree with them. I think it's obvious who it is but I guess they just don't have enough evidence on her unfortunately imo.

Also I don't think a stranger would have had so much anger toward her as to have beaten her up so badly. Only someone personally upset and for example jealous would have all that rage and take out all their anger on her like that vs quietly smothering her with a pillow without a bloody beating for example. The note speaks volumes imo on how the murderer was feeling - jealous of a very pretty girl getting attention from the boys and especially one boy she too liked and happened to have texted without getting a response back from right around the time she was mysteriously killed. I mean this boggles my mind how she is not behind bars imo. Clear as day to me. Then she mysteriously slips away after a long night of studying then drinking only to return she n supposed surprise at what she sees to conveniently have an allabi that she wasn't there and there's no sign of a break in bec she supposedly left the door unlocked. I don't buy any of her story and it all seems so so obvious to me wish it did for the cops too.