NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[Simplestarz86]

If you think she was attacked while sleeping, then that really does raise the specter of someone thinking they were attacking Karena (in her bed and bedroom). And when you say "attacked" do you think it was an attempted-or-completed rape, or do you think the purpose was murder from the get-go?

I am still on the fence about the sexual assault/ murder from the get go...Unfortunately I do know of someone who is serving a life sentence for first degree rape and first degree murder...it was a random crime (he did not personally know the woman at all) At trial it came out he used to check mail boxes to see if mail was piled in them, as if someone were on vacation, if it was he would enter the house. On this occasion he entered the house and the woman he attacked he believed to be asleep/incapacitated, she woke up/came to and he started to hit her with an object to knock her out again. Awful, awful. Makes me sick. So, I can see it both ways and haven't been sold on either way yet.


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[Simplestarz86]

Can you give us details about what led you to that conclusion? What specifically about the injuries, for example?


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Along with substantial head wounds, Faith sustained injuries to her hands and arms...defensive wounds IMO. From the angle I reenacted these scenarios one was sleeping on the stomach with face to the side. Progressing to "waking up" what does one do when being hit towards the face or head? You cover your head with your hands and arms. When we continued to reenact a lot of the same places she had injuries were places I was being hit while "protecting" myself. IIRC I read somewhere that Faith had short brown hairs and longer brown hairs in her hands (cannot find a link currently) a lot of times when this is found it actually turns out to be the victim's own hairs from them trying to protect themselves. IMO. Also, IMO, it wouldn't take many hits from the bottle to do enough damage to render someone incapable of fighting back. There was one massive wound on her head that IMO would have one to stunned as to not be able to think as clearly and to just take cover so to speak and put your hands up and block what is coming at you. IMO.

ETA: spellcheck
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[J.M. Bee]

I re-watched the 20/20 episode last night and must say that the commentator says one thing therein that is absolutely on point. After noting that all (or nearly all) of the males in Faith's social circle have been cleared by forensics, he says, 'the central contradiction in this case is that despite all the indications the killer was inside Faith's social circle, the DNA says the killer has to come from somewhere outside that circle, someone with at least one degree of separation.'

This point is absolutely essential to solving this case, IMO.

And I have stopped thinking of Karena Rosario as the prime suspect, by the way. (Though I do still think there is something strange about her leaving the apartment door unlocked.)

 

[jday10]

I don't think I have any real theories to add that haven't been discussed here and elsewhere already, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate how thoughtful and respectful everyone here is with their thoughts.

I live in Chapel Hill and was a UNC student when Faith was murdered (and when Eve Carson was murdered). I think about Faith every single day, especially since I drive by that apartment complex nearly every day and have visited my best friend's brother out there a few times. It is so hard to believe that no one has had to answer for her crime yet (as far as we know--maybe this creep has been run over by a train or eaten by a shark or something *hopefully* painful).

I know that LE believes they've gotten DNA samples from every person Faith knew or might have encountered (or have I read that wrong?), but I find that to be pretty impossible. She doesn't have to know someone personally for her to still be known to someone. Know what I mean?

Carolina is huge. Massive student population, plus staff and faculty. Add in Duke students nearby, or other people she definitely met around town or in Durham, and the numbers get higher. Now obviously, she didn't know all of those people, but there were definitely men in her classes or around the apartment complex who she "knew" but didn't really *know*. You know how you recognize someone who you've seen in the grocery store but you don't know their name or anything about them? Like that.

There were people I had in my classes throughout my time at Carolina that I would bump into on Franklin Street or somewhere else on campus who I might not have recognized if they hadn't approached me. Because they were in my class (and probably my age and naïveté), I'm sure I was sometimes more trustful of them than I should have been. It's possible a similar person murdered Faith, and that could be why no DNA testing has matched anyone yet.

 

[Skigirl]

I re-watched the 20/20 episode last night and must say that the commentator says one thing therein that is absolutely on point. After noting that all (or nearly all) of the males in Faith's social circle have been cleared by forensics, he says, 'the central contradiction in this case is that despite all the indications the killer was inside Faith's social circle, the DNA says the killer has to come from somewhere outside that circle, someone with at least one degree of separation.'

This point is absolutely essential to solving this case, IMO.

And I have stopped thinking of Karena Rosario as the prime suspect, by the way. (Though I do still think there is something strange about her leaving the apartment door unlocked.)

I hate to just keep saying the same thing but... I used to be considered an expert on memory. I think that the issue of whether the door was left unlocked by Karena is an open one, and here's why: memory is almost totally reconstructed. When we say we "remember" something, a lot of what we "remember"
Is actually inference. We have all had situations in which we have
Tried to remember something and said something like "it must have been 1985 because I was three at the time..". That is an example of inference. What i think might have happened is that Rosario arrived at the apt at 11 and found it unlocked. She "knew" that she was the last person to leave (because Faith's car was there so she assumed Faith was still home), and immediately encoded the unlocked door as "I left the door unlocked" without even being fully conscious that she had made the inference. It simply became a "memory". Then later when asked, she had a "memory" that she left the door unlocked, but by that point the source of the memory was lost. And so she said she left the door unlocked, when in fact the killer left the door unlocked.


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[CADwrest]

I re-watched the 20/20 episode last night and must say that the commentator says one thing therein that is absolutely on point. After noting that all (or nearly all) of the males in Faith's social circle have been cleared by forensics, he says, 'the central contradiction in this case is that despite all the indications the killer was inside Faith's social circle, the DNA says the killer has to come from somewhere outside that circle, someone with at least one degree of separation.'

This point is absolutely essential to solving this case, IMO.

And I have stopped thinking of Karena Rosario as the prime suspect, by the way. (Though I do still think there is something strange about her leaving the apartment door unlocked.)

What you mentioned is one of those theoretical statements LE has made that I take issue with. How do we know, exactly, that the killer WAS in Faith's social circle? The note? What aside from that points to that conclusion? Just the general circumstances of the crime, that perhaps point to someone watching the apartment?

I'm just not totally sure.

 

[Webthrush]

The whole door-locking issue is coming up again, and I certainly wish we had Karena’s testimony to the police as to how & why she remembers not locking the door, but we aren’t privy to that :-( — although all the news reports make it seem like a clear memory on her part. I can imagine, as I’ve said before, that it was simply not a habit to lock the door so long as one of the inhabitants was still in the apt. (of course if both occupants left, THEN it would be customary to lock up)… or alternatively I can imagine KR, in a hurry for her ride, leaving quickly, then thinking, ‘oh, I forgot to lock the door,' and her driver saying something like “don’t worry about it, the sun will be up in a couple of hours, and besides Faith is there to see if anyone comes in…” or something like that.
It would also be nice to know if it was the sort of door that you simply press a knob-button in and pull the door shut to lock it, or did it require one to stick the key in from the outside and turn it to manually lock it? (I don’t think we know that?)

 

[Boodles]

I am still on the fence about the sexual assault/ murder from the get go...Unfortunately I do know of someone who is serving a life sentence for first degree rape and first degree murder...it was a random crime (he did not personally know the woman at all) At trial it came out he used to check mail boxes to see if mail was piled in them, as if someone were on vacation, if it was he would enter the house. On this occasion he entered the house and the woman he attacked he believed to be asleep/incapacitated, she woke up/came to and he started to hit her with an object to knock her out again. Awful, awful. Makes me sick. So, I can see it both ways and haven't been sold on either way yet.


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Are you thinking of the Kathy Taft case? The testimony at that trial freaked me out. I got a security system installed and have used it religiously since.

 

[Boodles]

Here's the thing. Karena told the police she left the door unlocked. She could have said "I don't remember" but she had to account for the lack of forced entry. She affirmatively stated it was unlocked.

Whether or not she actively participated in the physical murder, I am sure she knows what happened.

I remember reading on her social media several years ago (before she went dark) something to the effect of (totally paraphrasing): "I don't regret...I have to do what's in my best interest...". It was a vague statement with no context, but it, along with many other things, confirmed in my mind that she has knowledge. Her 911 call was the first thing that jumped out at me.

She has never spoken out about finding "my friend's killer." Ever. At least not that I've heard or read and I've followed closely. Her silence is deafening. When other friends have attended vigils or posted comments about missing Faith, KR has said nothing, attended no vigils. And she felt safe enough to return to Chapel Hill after the murder after a short stint back in NJ. Would you? I would have been terrified to return to the town/university where my roommate was murdered in MY apartment. It's as though she knew she wasn't in danger. And how would she know that?

Again, I think LE knows who killed Faith. I just think they don't have enough evidence yet to be confident they can get a conviction. I think they've been very selective in what info has been released. The whole 'was she or was she not raped' question has been out there since day one. Semen was found on her. What an odd statement. The autopsy report does not mention rape as best I can remember. The detective on 20/20 then said she was. Something about this "rape" is unusual, not straightforward.

I think the DNA is a red herring. I don't trust the "profile" that was generated, and even if it's valid, I question whether this so-called person is the murderer.

I think Faith was murdered before Karena left the apartment at 4:25am. She needs to spill what she knows, even if it implicates herself.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Are you thinking of the Kathy Taft case? The testimony at that trial freaked me out. I got a security system installed and have used it religiously since.

Yes. . I had known the individual now paying for his horrendous crime for years. My family and I were blown away. I came to WS during the investigation. It was this crime that made the boogie man real to me. Too real. It made me start paying attention to behavior. With saying that-that is why I haven't been able to talk openly on this forum due to TOS about my theory. As people I believe were involved or at the very least know more than they are telling have never been named suspects.

ETA: clarification


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[Simplestarz86]

Not sure if this is allowed or not but I thought I'd share this link as there has been talk of creating a timeline. I have found this to be the most detailed timeline with sources linked to it as well. http://www.justiceforfaith.com/timeline-2012.html


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[Simplestarz86]

I'd like to add to the timeline I linked above that September 6, 2012 around 8PM-? Faith steps put to go to the apartment of a male acquaintance...


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[Webthrush]

Here's the thing. Karena told the police she left the door unlocked. She could have said "I don't remember" but she had to account for the lack of forced entry. She affirmatively stated it was unlocked.

Whether or not she actively participated in the physical murder, I am sure she knows what happened.

I remember reading on her social media several years ago (before she went dark) something to the effect of (totally paraphrasing): "I don't regret...I have to do what's in my best interest...". It was a vague statement with no context, but it, along with many other things, confirmed in my mind that she has knowledge. Her 911 call was the first thing that jumped out at me.

She has never spoken out about finding "my friend's killer." Ever. At least not that I've heard or read and I've followed closely. Her silence is deafening. When other friends have attended vigils or posted comments about missing Faith, KR has said nothing, attended no vigils. And she felt safe enough to return to Chapel Hill after the murder after a short stint back in NJ. Would you? I would have been terrified to return to the town/university where my roommate was murdered in MY apartment. It's as though she knew she wasn't in danger. And how would she know that?

Again, I think LE knows who killed Faith. I just think they don't have enough evidence yet to be confident they can get a conviction. I think they've been very selective in what info has been released. The whole 'was she or was she not raped' question has been out there since day one. Semen was found on her. What an odd statement. The autopsy report does not mention rape as best I can remember. The detective on 20/20 then said she was. Something about this "rape" is unusual, not straightforward.

I think the DNA is a red herring. I don't trust the "profile" that was generated, and even if it's valid, I question whether this so-called person is the murderer.

I think Faith was murdered before Karena left the apartment at 4:25am. She needs to spill what she knows, even if it implicates herself.

Several things here I do agree with and several I don't, but rather than hash through those things, I'll just raise one point and one question:

1) Given all the suspicion being thrown Karena's way, I'm surprised there aren't a lot more aspersions cast at Eric Takoy Jones -- he seems FAR more suspect to me than KR (not as the killer, but as someone who may know more than he's told); the circumstantial evidence around him is very devastating & suspicious, though nothing physically links him to the crime, and I'm not sure how much we know about his wider circle of contacts (...might also point out that his cousin was at the Thrill on the night in question).

2) For those of you so strongly pointing to KR as a suspect, do you believe this was a long-planned crime (week or more anyway), including her involvement, or did it just come to be that very night, or perhaps in the 24-48hrs. preceding that night???

 

[Simplestarz86]

Several things here I do agree with and several I don't, but rather than hash through those things, I'll just raise one point and one question:

1) Given all the suspicion being thrown Karena's way, I'm surprised there aren't a lot more aspersions cast at Eric Takoy Jones -- he seems FAR more suspect to me than KR (not as the killer, but as someone who may know more than he's told); the circumstantial evidence around him is very devastating & suspicious, though nothing physically links him to the crime, and I'm not sure how much we know about his wider circle of contacts (...might also point out that his cousin was at the Thrill on the night in question).

2) For those of you so strongly pointing to KR as a suspect, do you believe this was a long-planned crime (week or more anyway), including her involvement, or did it just come to be that very night, or perhaps in the 24-48hrs. preceding that night???

I believe both have motive. Whether someone egged someone on or got into someone's head heating them up.I think something came to light September 5. What that specially is-I don't know.


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[CADwrest]

I think the DNA is a red herring. I don't trust the "profile" that was generated, and even if it's valid, I question whether this so-called person is the murderer.

RSBM

Can you explain what you mean by this? How could the DNA be a red herring? Do you think it was deliberately planted somehow, or that there was some sort of mix up at the lab, or what?

The thing is, if we disregard the DNA, that turns the entire case upside down, and every single POI the police have ‘cleared’ via swab is back on the table.

 

[jday10]

MOO: I would bet every dollar in my bank account that Faith didn't text BE from her phone that night, but that it was KR texting from Faith's phone. KR called him 4 times immediately following that text message before she left the apartment with the other dude about 45 minutes later.

I personally don't think she (KR) actively participated in Faith's murder, but she damn sure knows more than she's admitted to LE. Chapel Hill PD wouldn't question somebody who just found their roommate's slaughtered body for 10 hours if they were satisfied she was telling the entire truth. JMO.

 

[J.M. Bee]

"I hate to just keep saying the same thing but ..... And so she said she left the door unlocked, when in fact the killer left the door unlocked." - Skigirl

Except everything you've said there would only explain why Karena would say she remembered something she didn't actually remember. It doesn't explain why she wouldn't have locked the door in the first place. And I do not buy your previous explanations as to why a pretty college girl would leave her apartment door unlocked, especially when a violent ex-boyfriend whom she had a restraining order for lived in the same apartment complex.

This is somewhat beside the point, though, for as strange as I find the fact that she left the door unlocked, I'm now of the view that the forensic evidence is too strong to suspect Karena (given that it points to a male killer).

Unless somehow this unknown male is connected to Karena in some way. I have seen people argue that Karena has a brother and that this brother resembles the phenotype image, but I don't know what to make of that.

 

[J.M. Bee]

"What you mentioned is one of those theoretical statements LE has made that I take issue with. How do we know, exactly, that the killer WAS in Faith's social circle? The note? What aside from that points to that conclusion? Just the general circumstances of the crime, that perhaps point to someone watching the apartment? I'm just not totally sure."

It's not that we know the killer was from her circle, it's that the note, as well as the circumstances and brutality of the crime suggest it was not a stranger. However, the problem with it not being a stranger is that all (or nearly all) of the males in her social circle have been cleared by forensics. That leads some to think that the killer was on the perimeter of her circle, that he knew her somehow but was one step removed and that police haven't linked him to her or tested him against the forensics.

 

[Simplestarz86]

"I hate to just keep saying the same thing but ..... And so she said she left the door unlocked, when in fact the killer left the door unlocked." - Skigirl

Except everything you've said there would only explain why Karena would say she remembered something she didn't actually remember. It doesn't explain why she wouldn't have locked the door in the first place. And I do not buy your previous explanations as to why a pretty college girl would leave her apartment door unlocked, especially when a violent ex-boyfriend whom she had a restraining order for lived in the same apartment complex.

This is somewhat beside the point, though, for as strange as I find the fact that she left the door unlocked, I'm now of the view that the forensic evidence is too strong to suspect Karena (given that it points to a male killer).

Unless somehow this unknown male is connected to Karena in some way. I have seen people argue that Karena has a brother and that this brother resembles the phenotype image, but I don't know what to make of that.

Where is it argued KR has a brother? I haven't seen that...if you are talking about what someone posted her in a picture collage about a week ago that was referring to MR not KR. If KR does have a brother I'd be interested in that as that would be news to me.


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[Skigirl]

RSBM

Can you explain what you mean by this? How could the DNA be a red herring? Do you think it was deliberately planted somehow, or that there was some sort of mix up at the lab, or what?

The thing is, if we disregard the DNA, that turns the entire case upside down, and every single POI the police have ‘cleared’ via swab is back on the table.

I agree -- if the DNA is a red herring, that opens everyone back up to suspicion, in my opinion, especially ETJ.