NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[Skigirl]

"I hate to just keep saying the same thing but ..... And so she said she left the door unlocked, when in fact the killer left the door unlocked." - Skigirl

Except everything you've said there would only explain why Karena would say she remembered something she didn't actually remember. It doesn't explain why she wouldn't have locked the door in the first place. And I do not buy your previous explanations as to why a pretty college girl would leave her apartment door unlocked, especially when a violent ex-boyfriend whom she had a restraining order for lived in the same apartment complex.

This is somewhat beside the point, though, for as strange as I find the fact that she left the door unlocked, I'm now of the view that the forensic evidence is too strong to suspect Karena (given that it points to a male killer).

Unless somehow this unknown male is connected to Karena in some way. I have seen people argue that Karena has a brother and that this brother resembles the phenotype image, but I don't know what to make of that.

My explanation actually does account for why she could have a false memory of leaving the door unlocked, but it does not seem worth defending since the only thing that's a fact is that she could have misremembered -- and how likely that is to have happened is a matter of opinion.

Still, I tend to agree with CADWrest that the way we have heard she reported it -- not that she "might" or "could" have left the door unlocked, but that she did leave the door unlocked -- would suggest that she actually knew because that was her habit and/or she did it on purpose.

Unlocked or not, I still have trouble buying the idea that she left it unlocked so that a confederate could commit murder and mayhem. It seems to me like she would have tried to cover her tracks and say that she DID remember leaving the door locked instead of potentially implicating herself. If she was going to join forces with someone to murder Faith, wouldn't she just let whoever it was knock the door in or if that were too loud, why not unscrew some of the hinges just enough that it would be quiet and easy to kick the door in, or leave a window unlocked, or say that she just had no idea why there was no sign of forced entry and that the door was locked when she left?

 

[Boodles]

Several things here I do agree with and several I don't, but rather than hash through those things, I'll just raise one point and one question:

1) Given all the suspicion being thrown Karena's way, I'm surprised there aren't a lot more aspersions cast at Eric Takoy Jones -- he seems FAR more suspect to me than KR (not as the killer, but as someone who may know more than he's told); the circumstantial evidence around him is very devastating & suspicious, though nothing physically links him to the crime, and I'm not sure how much we know about his wider circle of contacts (...might also point out that his cousin was at the Thrill on the night in question).

2) For those of you so strongly pointing to KR as a suspect, do you believe this was a long-planned crime (week or more anyway), including her involvement, or did it just come to be that very night, or perhaps in the 24-48hrs. preceding that night???

1. I agree that Jones is suspicious. He may well be involved.

2. I don't think it was pre-planned far in advance. My gut tells me it was brought on by drunken rage driven by jealousy or some perceived transgression.

 

[Boodles]

RSBM

Can you explain what you mean by this? How could the DNA be a red herring? Do you think it was deliberately planted somehow, or that there was some sort of mix up at the lab, or what?

The thing is, if we disregard the DNA, that turns the entire case upside down, and every single POI the police have ‘cleared’ via swab is back on the table.

I realize they tested DNA found at the scene. I'm not convinced it means the DNA used to develop the phenotype is that of the killer. How convenient that there's a note left, that there's DNA on the note, but the note isn't bloody. I think the note is a red herring also. It doesn't make any sense IMO.

Who knows what may have happened between 4:25am and 11am that morning? Actions may have been taken by the killer(s) to plant evidence to mislead investigators.

 

[Skigirl]

I realize they tested DNA found at the scene. I'm not convinced it means the DNA used to develop the phenotype is that of the killer. How convenient that there's a note left, that there's DNA on the note, but the note isn't bloody. I think the note is a red herring also. It doesn't make any sense IMO.

Who knows what may have happened between 4:25am and 11am that morning? Actions may have been taken by the killer(s) to plant evidence to mislead investigators.

The best evidence is bad evidence because it is too good? The same DNA was found on the bottle. That's not the killer's DNA? The killer didn't leave DNA but some latino guy came by that night, left a note near her body, left DNA on the murder weapon, but isn't the killer?

Am I misremembering that the same DNA was found on the bottle?

 

[Simplestarz86]

The best evidence is bad evidence because it is too good? The same DNA was found on the bottle. That's not the killer's DNA? The killer didn't leave DNA but some latino guy came by that night, left a note near her body, left DNA on the murder weapon, but isn't the killer?

Am I misremembering that the same DNA was found on the bottle?

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews....ments-police-happened-faith/story?id=42281581
"A DNA profile was generated from semen collected at the scene, and investigators believe that DNA belongs to Hedgepeth’s killer...The note was found on the bed, and the pen it was written with has DNA that matches the DNA found on Hedgepeth’s body." IIRC LE has never said if DNA or fingerprints were taken from the Bacardi Rum bottle...also IMO so strange "DNA found ON Hedgepeth's body," if found during a rape kit. JMO.


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[CADwrest]

1. I agree that Jones is suspicious. He may well be involved.

2. I don't think it was pre-planned far in advance. My gut tells me it was brought on by drunken rage driven by jealousy or some perceived transgression.

If KR is our suspect, I can't see how the crime was done in spontaneous rage and yet the crime scene was meticulously staged in such a way as to exonerate her. Especially if she was drunk.

 

[Simplestarz86]

If KR is our suspect, I can't see how the crime was done in spontaneous rage and yet the crime scene was meticulously staged in such a way as to exonerate her. Especially if she was drunk.

IF KR is a suspect...had several hours before the 911 call was made. Only her and MR know exactly when they entered that apartment. JMO


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[Boodles]

If KR is our suspect, I can't see how the crime was done in spontaneous rage and yet the crime scene was meticulously staged in such a way as to exonerate her. Especially if she was drunk.

Well of course I wasn't there, and it's my opinion. However, more than one person may be involved, and as I mentioned above, I think it's likely things happened between the time Faith was murdered (which I suspect was before KR left the apt at 4:25am) and 11am. It would be nice to know the time of death.

Again, I can't explain this murder and all the variables. I just have strong feelings about KR's involvement.

 

[Boodles]

The best evidence is bad evidence because it is too good? The same DNA was found on the bottle. That's not the killer's DNA? The killer didn't leave DNA but some latino guy came by that night, left a note near her body, left DNA on the murder weapon, but isn't the killer?

Am I misremembering that the same DNA was found on the bottle?

What simplestarz said above ^^^. Thnx simplestarz.

 

[CADwrest]

IF KR is a suspect...had several hours before the 911 call was made. Only her and MR know exactly when they entered that apartment. JMO
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OK, I don't like KR has a suspect, I think I've made that clear, but I'll at least entertain the idea that maybe she may know more than she's saying.
But bringing in MR as a co-conspirator is going too far.

 

[Simplestarz86]

OK, I don't like KR has a suspect, I think I've made that clear, but I'll at least entertain the idea that maybe she may know more than she's saying.
But bringing in MR as a co-conspirator is going too far.

Everything I say is JMO. I never implied that MR is a co-conspirator. I understand why it could have been read that way. This case is extremely important to me and I have spent a lot of time sleuthing. I only want justice for Faith. I have been very careful as to my thoughts and opinions due to TOS. I have stated this time and time again.


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[J.M. Bee]

"My explanation actually does account for why she could have a false memory of leaving the door unlocked, but ... Unlocked or not, I still have trouble buying the idea that she left it unlocked so that a confederate could commit murder and mayhem." - Skigirl

OK, but you are missing the point. You have given us an account of why Karena might have said she remembered doing something she did not actually remember doing, but you haven't given us an account of why she would have left the door unlocked in the first place.

Given that there was no sign of forced entry, there are only two explanations for how the killer --- if Karena herself was not the killer --- gained entry to the apartment: either Karena left the door unlocked, or Faith let the killer in.

My point is that I find it hard to believe that Karena would leave the apartment unlocked, for a variety of reasons. Her violent ex-boyfriend against whom she had a restraining order (and who had threatened Faith) is just one of those reasons. (And I apologize, but the idea that it was her "habit" to leave the door unlocked is patently ridiculous. As I say, she had a restraining order placed upon a violent ex-boyfriend who lived in the same complex.) Because I find it hard to believe that she would have left the apartment unlocked, I find her account to the police that she remembers leaving the door unlocked somewhat suspicious.

However, I don't need to believe that if she left the apartment unlocked, she did so in order for some "confederate" of hers to do terrible things to Faith (though I guess that is a possibility). Rather, as I explained several pages ago, under the scenario in which Karena herself killed Faith in a jealous, alcohol-fueled rage, Karena would have left the door unlocked when she left so as to suggest that a stranger-intruder had committed the crime, and she would have told police that she "remembered" leaving the door unlocked so as to point them in a false direction.

However, as I've said, while I think there remains something odd about Karena's leaving the door unlocked or saying that she left the door unlocked, I now think the forensic evidence is too strong and that it points in a different direction, namely, toward a male who was either on the periphery of their social circle (and who perhaps Faith let in?) or toward a male who lived nearby and had been watching Faith and Karena for some time. However, why this male would have arrived at Faith's apartment door at 4:30am remains one of several things in this case that is difficult to explain.

 

[Skigirl]

"My explanation actually does account for why she could have a false memory of leaving the door unlocked, but ... Unlocked or not, I still have trouble buying the idea that she left it unlocked so that a confederate could commit murder and mayhem." - Skigirl

OK, but you are missing the point. You have given us an account of why Karena might have said she remembered doing something she did not actually remember doing, but you haven't given us an account of why she would have left the door unlocked in the first place.

Given that there was no sign of forced entry, there are only two explanations for how the killer --- if Karena herself was not the killer --- gained entry to the apartment: either Karena left the door unlocked, or Faith let the killer in.

My point is that I find it hard to believe that Karena would leave the apartment unlocked, for a variety of reasons. Her violent ex-boyfriend against whom she had a restraining order (and who had threatened Faith) is just one of those reasons. (And I apologize, but the idea that it was her "habit" to leave the door unlocked is patently ridiculous. As I say, she had a restraining order placed upon a violent ex-boyfriend who lived in the same complex.) Because I find it hard to believe that she would have left the apartment unlocked, I find her account to the police that she remembers leaving the door unlocked somewhat suspicious.

However, I don't need to believe that if she left the apartment unlocked, she did so in order for some "confederate" of hers to do terrible things to Faith (though I guess that is a possibility). Rather, as I explained several pages ago, under the scenario in which Karena herself killed Faith in a jealous, alcohol-fueled rage, Karena would have left the door unlocked when she left so as to suggest that a stranger-intruder had committed the crime, and she would have told police that she "remembered" leaving the door unlocked so as to point them in a false direction.

However, as I've said, while I think there remains something odd about Karena's leaving the door unlocked or saying that she left the door unlocked, I now think the forensic evidence is too strong and that it points in a different direction, namely, toward a male who was either on the periphery of their social circle (and who perhaps Faith let in?) or toward a male who lived nearby and had been watching Faith and Karena for some time. However, why this male would have arrived at Faith's apartment door at 4:30am remains one of several things in this case that is difficult to explain.

No, you are missing my point. My account was an account of why she might have "remembered" leaving the door unlocked when in fact she left it *locked*. Under that scenario, Faith would have let in her killer. Again, I am not saying my account is the truth. It is simply one possible scenario. I was not trying to explain why it was unlocked. I was simply pointing out that the "door left unlocked" may not even be a fact. Again, maybe we can take Karena at her word that it was unlocked. Maybe she left it unlocked on purpose and 100% knows it was left unlocked.


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[J.M. Bee]

No offense, Ski, but if that was your point, you should have said so. You are now telling us that, per your account: (i) Karena did in fact lock the apartment door and (ii) Faith let her killer in. These are important claims. Yet at no point in your post about how or why Karena might have "remembered" not locking the door did you say either of these things. Read it again and you'll see what I am saying: at no point do you mention either of these important implications.

 

[CADwrest]

Everything I say is JMO. I never implied that MR is a co-conspirator. I understand why it could have been read that way. This case is extremely important to me and I have spent a lot of time sleuthing. I only want justice for Faith. I have been very careful as to my thoughts and opinions due to TOS. I have stated this time and time again.


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Sorry. I just didn't see another way of taking what you said. If MR arrived earlier and was with KR while she cleaned up and staged the apartment, or even just waited in the car for some reason, I don't see how she couldn't be in on it. I mean, the poor girl wasn't even out with them the night before, all she did was give KR a ride home.

But I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning. You're right, at the end of the day, we all do want the same thing.


And, yes, can we please give the unlocked door discussion a rest?

 

[Whiskers16]

For those who wanted to collaborate on this case.. I'm wondering if we could establish a shared workspace on google drive or something similar. I will take a look at options but was wondering if anyone has seen what has worked well on another case perhaps?

 

[Simplestarz86]

I think there is a lot of information we don't have and unfortunately we have to speculate. We may not always agree. The information we do have only raises more questions. I think we are all trying the best we can. Justice for Faith.


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[Indigi]

Here's the thing. Karena told the police she left the door unlocked. She could have said "I don't remember" but she had to account for the lack of forced entry. She affirmatively stated it was unlocked.

Whether or not she actively participated in the physical murder, I am sure she knows what happened.

I remember reading on her social media several years ago (before she went dark) something to the effect of (totally paraphrasing): "I don't regret...I have to do what's in my best interest...". It was a vague statement with no context, but it, along with many other things, confirmed in my mind that she has knowledge. Her 911 call was the first thing that jumped out at me.

She has never spoken out about finding "my friend's killer." Ever. At least not that I've heard or read and I've followed closely. Her silence is deafening. When other friends have attended vigils or posted comments about missing Faith, KR has said nothing, attended no vigils. And she felt safe enough to return to Chapel Hill after the murder after a short stint back in NJ. Would you? I would have been terrified to return to the town/university where my roommate was murdered in MY apartment. It's as though she knew she wasn't in danger. And how would she know that?

Again, I think LE knows who killed Faith. I just think they don't have enough evidence yet to be confident they can get a conviction. I think they've been very selective in what info has been released. The whole 'was she or was she not raped' question has been out there since day one. Semen was found on her. What an odd statement. The autopsy report does not mention rape as best I can remember. The detective on 20/20 then said she was. Something about this "rape" is unusual, not straightforward.

I think the DNA is a red herring. I don't trust the "profile" that was generated, and even if it's valid, I question whether this so-called person is the murderer.

I think Faith was murdered before Karena left the apartment at 4:25am. She needs to spill what she knows, even if it implicates herself.

I also thought that she seemed very unconcerned about her "friend". Maybe she thought she would gain something from Faith's death...sympathy or less competition. Because females are always jealous of each other and strive on attention even if its on a small or extreme level. Instead she gained suspicion and continues to live in the shadow of Faith. Was there some jealousy over guys or over the fact that Faith was contemplating pledging a sorority.
I think I read that she intentionally left the door unlocked because of a key situation but Im not sure about that. But if that was the reason and she was the one leaving why not take the key. That makes no sense to me unless its like others speculated that she needed some type of story. Either way the holes in the stories and evidence point to KR involvement or knowledge of it.
Im also not buying the DNA because it seems like no one who was ever a POI fit this description. And with some of the POI's having some legal and/or illegal involvement points to the possibility of planting. Could others DNA could be dismissed because they had visited the girls? What about finger prints...they never mention any of that. IMO a good investigator would know what was botched and would inform the family and the public. They know way more than they tell the public and how much of that secrecy is politically motivated.

 

[Indigi]

At one point early in the investigation i found the twin on social media but based on that you would never know they had a relationship at all. Beyond maybe one picture of them as kids that was about it. But soon after that a few other photos of them together surfaced. I often wondered if that was a suggestion from legal advice to keep us lookers from further speculating KR's character or factors leading to jealousy issues.

 

[Indigi]

Well, if he's anything like my "friend," he's watching her apartment, knows that Karena has left, and yes, just goes and rings the doorbell. She's too polite to not let him in and it's only when things start to go south that she realizes she's in a bad situation and asks him to leave. Except, unlike in my situation, he doesn't.

As to why he's watching the apartment in the above scenario, maybe there was a trigger. Maybe he saw her earlier in the night someplace. Maybe they've been casually chatting every once in a while when he "just happens" to run into her. Maybe he is holding onto the idea that once he gets up the nerve to confess how in love with her he is, it'll be like a movie and she'll confess that she's secretly been in love with him, too, except that it backfires and instead of being in love with him, she's just totally freaked out by him, and realizes now that she's alone with him and...

This makes a lot of sense and I wonder if LE began looking into this outer orbit when the inner circle was a troth of dead ends. I remember having an interested acquaintance and he did feral me out a little and I didn't want to be mean to him. I did tell friends about him. Hopefully Faiths friends noticed this person's presence and will tell someone. So you might be on to something especially if Faith was extremely friendly to everyone she encountered.

This theory still doesn't explain the craziness surrounding this case and other perplexing instances.