NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[J.M. Bee]

Good post, CADWrest, but for me that leads us back to a place that seemingly makes no sense. If the male who had sex with Faith is her murderer, who is this male? Haven't all of the males known to Faith been tested against the forensics? Not to mention, if this male was known to Faith, when and how did he enter the apartment? Did he just show up and knock on the apartment door at 4:30am? That's a little late for a "booty call," and a "booty call" would normally be preceded by a phone call or text message. But Faith didn't receive any later texts or calls. So I am a little in the dark about how this male known to her finds himself in bed with her at 4:45am and why he has not been identified via the forensics.

Maybe that suggests, then, that this male was not known to Faith and that the sex was non-consensual. This would better account for why the police have not been able to identify the killer via forensics. However, this theory raises other problems, including: why would a stranger have tried to enter their apartment after 4:30am? Weren't they on the second or third floor? Doesn't this seem a little improbable? Unless perhaps this stranger was a neighbor of one kind or another who had been watching the girls go in and out of the apartment, eyeing them as it were. But then the question is why have the police not identified this person.

If I take the forensic evidence as definitive, as you do, I have to say that this last theory seems to be the most plausible, i.e., that the killer was a stranger to Faith, that he had been watching the girls for some time, that he was living in one of the nearby apartments and that police have not been able to identify him for some reason.

However, this theory has its own problems, including, why would such a person write the note that was left? Doesn't the note suggest that the killer and Faith knew one another?

This case is incredibly perplexing, and very, very frustrating.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Building on the above, one might say that if one believes that Faith was killed by a male, then there are three possible scenarios:

1. the male was known to her & the sex was consensual
2. the male was known to her & the sex was non-consensual
3. the male was unknown to her & the sex was non-consensual

Each of these scenarios/theories poses its own problems. For example, for scenarios 1 & 2, if the male was known to her, why have the police not been able to use the forensic evidence to identify the killer? For scenario 3, when did he enter? How did he subdue Faith? Why did he leave the note?

 

[J.M. Bee]

This last post above leads me to think that the most likely explanation --- if one thinks that her killer was male --- may be that the male was known to Faith but that police have either (i) failed to identify him as a person of interest or (ii) failed to obtain his fingerprints/DNA.

 

[Skigirl]

Good post, CADWrest, but for me that leads us back to a place that seemingly makes no sense. If the male who had sex with Faith is her murderer, who is this male? Haven't all of the males known to Faith been tested against the forensics? Not to mention, if this male was known to Faith, when and how did he enter the apartment? Did he just show up and knock on the apartment door at 4:30am? That's a little late for a "booty call," and a "booty call" would normally be preceded by a phone call or text message. But Faith didn't receive any later texts or calls. So I am a little in the dark about how this male known to her finds himself in bed with her at 4:45am and why he has not been identified via the forensics.

Maybe that suggests, then, that this male was not known to Faith and that the sex was non-consensual. This would better account for why the police have not been able to identify the killer via forensics. However, this theory raises other problems, including: why would a stranger have tried to enter their apartment after 4:30am? Weren't they on the second or third floor? Doesn't this seem a little improbable? Unless perhaps this stranger was a neighbor of one kind or another who had been watching the girls go in and out of the apartment, eyeing them as it were. But then the question is why have the police not identified this person.

If I take the forensic evidence as definitive, as you do, I have to say that this last theory seems to be the most plausible, i.e., that the killer was a stranger to Faith, that he had been watching the girls for some time, that he was living in one of the nearby apartments and that police have not been able to identify him for some reason.

However, this theory has its own problems, including, why would such a person write the note that was left? Doesn't the note suggest that the killer and Faith knew one another?

This case is incredibly perplexing, and very, very frustrating.

JM Bee,

I don't think that LE necessarily knows or can collect fingerprints or DNA from every man that Faith knew. Although they can know of people her friends could name, her circle was possibly (or maybe even probably) much larger. When I was in college, I had many acquaintances. For example, there were people who lived in my very large co-ed house, and I assume that if I'd been murdered, all 10 or so men in the house would have been considered. Then there were men I knew from my part-time job in a restaurant. I am not sure all of those would have been considered, and my friends wouldn't have known of most of them, or to the extent that my inner circle heard about them, it was "that guy who works on Thursday" or something similarly vague. Then there were guys I knew from various activities -- for example, those who I saw at the gym because I tended to go at the same time every day. There were guys at my favorite coffee shops. There were those in my classes.

LE would have focused on some of the men I knew, but there would have been plenty they wouldn't have known about. Even if they focused on all of the men I worked with at the restaurant, they wouldn't have been able to get an order for DNA from every single one of the guys who worked there.

Just after I graduated from college, I had an "admirer" who happened to frequent a bar where I used to stop in after work with a couple co-workers once or twice a week. He struck up a conversation with me, and later asked me on a date. But I had no idea that he already knew pretty much everything about me, including where I lived, that I had a dog, where I worked, who I was friends with, where I shopped for groceries, etc. I agreed to go out with him once, and after that, he just went bonkers and started coming by my apartment at all times of the day and night, even though I made it clear during the first date that I was not interested. I saw him as more of an annoyance than a threat and didn't tell anyone right away. Fortunately, he was not dangerous, just very annoying, and I am here to tell the story, even though I did let him in one night, very late. I felt sorry for him, and I was too polite to be assertive until things escalated and I was convinced by people that I was in a very bad and dangerous situation and, that under no circumstances should I ever let him in my apartment again, and that furthermore, I needed to make it very clear that his attention was unwelcome.

I've always wondered if the person who killed Faith was in the outer orbit of her circle. Someone that wouldn't immediately come to mind when her friends and family were telling law enforcement where to look. Someone who Faith did not have an interest in, but someone she liked enough not to want to hurt, until it became clear that his expectations were very different from hers.

On another note... I keep starting to work on the timeline I promised upthread, and get overwhelmed... I think I'm going to post something unfinished to get the ball rolling, instead of being such a perfectionist that I can't make progress.

-Skigirl

 

[J.M. Bee]

OK, Skigirl, but if this male was in the "outer orbit" of her social circle --- something I have also considered --- what is our account of how he comes to be in the apartment sometime after 4:30am? Does he simply show up at her front door? Does she let him in? Does he simply find the door unlocked and sneak in? I don't know; that all sounds highly improbable, unless this male had a serious obsession with Faith. But if that were the case, one would think that police would have heard about this person through other friends and acquaintances of Faith's. Then there is the note: whoever wrote the note felt seriously wronged by Faith. Again, perhaps an obsessive admirer of hers could've felt wronged by her, but the word "jealous" doesn't make sense in this case IMO.

It is a very perplexing case.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Another thing: what does "LE" stand for?

 

[Skigirl]

OK, Skigirl, but if this male was in the "outer orbit" of her social circle --- something I have also considered --- what is our account of how he comes to be in the apartment sometime after 4:30am? Does he simply show up at her front door? Does she let him in? Does he simply find the door unlocked and sneak in? I don't know; that all sounds highly improbable, unless this male had a serious obsession with Faith. But if that were the case, one would think that police would have heard about this person through other friends and acquaintances of Faith's. Then there is the note: whoever wrote the note felt seriously wronged by Faith. Again, perhaps an obsessive admirer of hers could've felt wronged by her, but the word "jealous" doesn't make sense in this case IMO.

It is a very perplexing case.

Well, if he's anything like my "friend," he's watching her apartment, knows that Karena has left, and yes, just goes and rings the doorbell. She's too polite to not let him in and it's only when things start to go south that she realizes she's in a bad situation and asks him to leave. Except, unlike in my situation, he doesn't.

As to why he's watching the apartment in the above scenario, maybe there was a trigger. Maybe he saw her earlier in the night someplace. Maybe they've been casually chatting every once in a while when he "just happens" to run into her. Maybe he is holding onto the idea that once he gets up the nerve to confess how in love with her he is, it'll be like a movie and she'll confess that she's secretly been in love with him, too, except that it backfires and instead of being in love with him, she's just totally freaked out by him, and realizes now that she's alone with him and...

 

[Skigirl]

Another thing: what does "LE" stand for?

Law Enforcement. It's for those of us too lazy to distinguish between sheriffs, FBI, police, SBI, etc.

 

[CADwrest]

J.M. Bee, I think you're hitting on something that gets to the root of why this case hasn't been solved, and why it's turning out to be very hard to solve.IMO, something that happened that night was very unexpected or unlikely, and not something that will be obvious in hindsight. It's why the police are stymied; in most cases like this, if you dig around in the victim's relationships enough, you can find someone with the motive and opportunity, and once you make that connection, everything else falls into place. Not here: Everyone with an obvious motive has been forensically ruled out, and so have many people with merely the opportunity but no motive (people who just lived in the complex who could've noticed she was alone, for instance).
The police seemed to have settled on the idea that the killer had a degree of separation from Faith, someone who knew of her but didn't know her personally. I think they believe this because of the note that was left, which seems to imply that her and the killer had some prior history. But I don't know; it might not show ANY insider knowledge. It's not a huge reach to assume a pretty college girl's going to have someone in her life who's got jealousy issues, and the killer might have just been trying to misdirect the police.
I do trust the forensics, yes. If they messed up the DNA collection and all that, then this case is botched completely and will likely never get solved. I'm much less confident about their statements regarding the theoretical aspects of the case, which strike me as educated guesses that might be completely wrong.
My own, working opinion is that someone who sort of knew her from school or somewhere was out that night and noticed her, ended up following her home and, on some sort of pretext, approached her once he knew she was alone in the apartment. Things went very badly and he ended up raping and killing her, probably after receiving a rejection. That theory has plenty of problems and relies on a lot of unlikely coincidences, I readily acknowledge that, but I think that's where we are. If what happened were obvious, someone would be two or three years into a life sentence.

 

[Webthrush]

I’ll chime in on a few of the matters brought up lately:

1) I don’t recall LE ever actually using the term “rape” in early (or subsequent) reports; in fact I felt they were scrupulously avoiding it. A few news reports may have speculated about an “attempted rape” but I was never clear that really came from police. What police did clearly state was that semen was found at the crime scene and that DNA matched DNA on the bottle (murder weapon), bag, and pen. Police don’t conduct rape kit testing themselves so I assume crime-scene semen was either on Faith, her clothes, or bedding. The results (if any) of the rape kit test later done, has never been reported.

2) The initial police report from the scene says, “The apartment had lots of clutter scattered around, but no obvious sign of a struggle.” — I’ve always thought this a pretty ridiculous statement, given the blood spattering, disheveled bed, and what the coroner later reported as contusions on Faith’s hands, arms, legs etc. Maybe not a struggle moving furniture, knocking down bookcases, whatever, but pretty clearly there was a struggle. So why did no one hear anything!? the downstairs neighbor only recalled a ‘thump’ around 3am., not later in the morning when the crime presumably occurred. The only explanation I’ve ever imagined is at least 2 perps, one restraining/manhandling FH while the other attacked her — did she bite, scratch, kick in the groin, etc.…? — at some point one became so enraged as to strike her with the bottle that killed her?

3) I imagine the Thrill as the sort of bar that would attract a lot of late-night regulars, but also transients just passing through town or here temporarily. Did a couple of unknown perps take a liking to the girls at the club, get rebuffed, but then visit the apt. later, and finding FH alone took advantage of the situation — I think a lot of plausible scenarios can be created with perps who were essentially strangers, or outside the girls’ primary circles.
— jmo (admittedly, I’m not sure how to explain the bag/message in such a ‘stranger’ scenario; as already said, no matter which way you go, there are perplexing things -- I hope, hope, HOPE the police have more to tell us come early September and the anniversary date).

 

[Elementarywatsonsir]

Did I read correctly that Faith was found in KR's bedroom?


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[Webthrush]

Did I read correctly that Faith was found in KR's bedroom?


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technically yes, it was a 1-bedroom apt., and KR's apt., where Faith was temporarily staying

 

[Elementarywatsonsir]

technically yes, it was a 1-bedroom apt., and KR's apt., where Faith was temporarily staying

So maybe KR returned and found out she had hooked up with a guy she liked and did her in? Wouldn't have been much of a struggle if she was passed out from drinking.


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[Elementarywatsonsir]

I could even see a "mean girl" setting up the hookup (remember the movie Heathers) and the guy had no idea what he was about to be a part of.


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[J.M. Bee]

Elementary - I think you might want to read a bit more about this case, as well as watch some of the programs that have covered it. A few good resources include:

1. https://faithhedgepeth.blogspot.com
2. http://www.gaspowrites.com
3. https://truenoirstories.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/faith-hedgepeth/
4. 20/20's "Love, Hope, And Faith - The Faith Hedgepeth Murder" (youtube)
5. Crime Watch Daily's "Could Voicemail Unravel Faith Hedgepeth Murder Mystery?" (youtube)

 

[CADwrest]

The only explanation I’ve ever imagined is at least 2 perps, one restraining/manhandling FH while the other attacked her — did she bite, scratch, kick in the groin, etc.…? — at some point one became so enraged as to strike her with the bottle that killed her?

RSBM

It’s all conjecture, really, but I tend to think it was just one perp involved. If someone is really resisting, going all out, even with two people assisting, it is very, very difficult to control them, much less quietly. I once took a counter-abduction class and did an exercise where I was supposed to resist being handcuffed, and I had five or six grown men on me trying to just get my hands together; they succeeded after I became completely exhausted, but it took a few minutes. Meanwhile, we’re all lurching around, people are falling, I’m shouting at the top of my lungs, etc. It’s a normal panic response in such a situation, to be loud and draw as much attention as possible.

But there’s another way to control someone, and that’s by intimidation. The victim sees that the size and strength of the perp is far greater than her own, and he indicates he’s very willing to injure or kill her if she resists. She gets so terrified that she doesn’t make a sound or offer any resistance, thinking that he’ll only hurt her worse if she doesn’t obey, and hoping she’ll be left alive when it’s over. It’s also a very common, instinctive response in situations like that.

Unfortunately, I think the latter is more likely what happened with Faith. If she’d been screaming and fighting, even against multiple attackers, her downstairs neighbor would have heard it, if she can hear a “thump” through the floor in the middle of the night.

The other reason I think it is just one, is that, apparently, there’s only one set of male DNA in the bedroom. If there were two perps, you’d expect there to be two sets of DNA, unless one of them was just there as a spectator. Also, the more people involved, the greater chance that someone slips up and says something about it.

 

[Simplestarz86]

IMO I believe she was attacked while sleeping. After reviewing reports of injuries and reenacting several different scenarios with her marked injuries on my body it seemed like being attacked while asleep was highly probable. JMO


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[Webthrush]

IMO I believe she was attacked while sleeping. After reviewing reports of injuries and reenacting several different scenarios with her marked injuries on my body it seemed like being attacked while asleep was highly probable. JMO


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If you think she was attacked while sleeping, then that really does raise the specter of someone thinking they were attacking Karena (in her bed and bedroom). And when you say "attacked" do you think it was an attempted-or-completed rape, or do you think the purpose was murder from the get-go?

 

[Skigirl]

IMO I believe she was attacked while sleeping. After reviewing reports of injuries and reenacting several different scenarios with her marked injuries on my body it seemed like being attacked while asleep was highly probable. JMO


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Can you give us details about what led you to that conclusion? What specifically about the injuries, for example?


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[CADwrest]

If you think she was attacked while sleeping, then that really does raise the specter of someone thinking they were attacking Karena (in her bed and bedroom). And when you say "attacked" do you think it was an attempted-or-completed rape, or do you think the purpose was murder from the get-go?

If the killer started bludgeoning her with the bottle while she was still asleep, I think that would show a clear intent to murder from the start.

Also (and this is very grim), killing her first might explain why he'd pull her shirt over her head before... continuing. It masks the fact that she's obviously dead.