GUILTY NC - Laura Ackerson, 27, Kinston, 13 July 2011 #3

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Becky please give them an explanation of that agreement document!!

Boodles, Boz explained- or tried to explain that agreement in closing.

I am STILL confused about it. Are you? How about the rest? HELP!

I know GH and/or AH concocted the doc. Left it to be discovered/or used.
Went to TX. Someone in TX mentioned custody case/kidnapping per KB. KB contended on stand GH didn't want to go to jail and both were concerned about taking kids over state line.

WHY? Wouldn't the doc have made that a breeze? Did they just say that to be able to leave ASAP? They knew LA was dead. No one was going to challenge them taking kids anywhere! And they had that doc!

Anyone recall did Grant text/email/talk to anyone while Laura's disappearance is being investigated that he "is" in midst of custody case with LA? The jail house informant mentioned something about it didn't he? And wouldn't the doc have made that moot?

Finally he talks to LE and contradicts the doc, flips it completely saying he was going to give custody TO Laura.

COUNT ME CONFUSED!!! :banghead:
 
Since KB testi-phony didn't help GH, I don't see what they wouldn't now put him on the stand? After all, AH is not gonna testify there (I'm assuming) to dis-credit his story...don't know how that works, but assuming she wouldn't wanna testify 'cause it would hurt her in her own trial.

The defense does NOT have ANYTHING else. I think this is a case now where they should put him on the stand now. It's his only "chance"...haha.


bbm

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain


'Nuff said.

icon10.gif






 
Boodles, Boz explained- or tried to explain that agreement in closing.

I am STILL confused about it. Are you? How about the rest? HELP!

I know GH and/or AH concocted the doc. Left it to be discovered/or used.
Went to TX. Someone in TX mentioned custody case/kidnapping per KB. KB contended on stand GH didn't want to go to jail and both were concerned about taking kids over state line.

WHY? Wouldn't the doc have made that a breeze? Did they just say that to be able to leave ASAP? They knew LA was dead. No one was going to challenge them taking kids anywhere! And they had that doc!

Anyone recall did Grant text/email/talk to anyone while Laura's disappearance is being investigated that he "is" in midst of custody case with LA? The jail house informant mentioned something about it didn't he? And wouldn't the doc have made that moot?

Finally he talks to LE and contradicts the doc, flips it completely saying he was going to give custody TO Laura.

COUNT ME CONFUSED!!! :banghead:

Veracity, I have no idea. From the Pros. closing, sounded like they thought he made her write it under coercion so that he could say, hey she ran off with the money, free of children, I don't know where she is??

When I look at her writing and signature on that doc, I don't really "see" any kind of nervous handwriting, like kind of shaky, instead her signature seems pretty firm to me. I would think someone under threat at knifepoint or something like that, they would have lighter, less firm writing and it would be shaky at some points. I don't know, did the handwriting expert go into this? I didn't see much of her testimony.

I'm also very confused about this.....
 
AnnonymousD,

I think you asked why the defense offered up these clippings. The defense wanted to get into evidence something that supports the informant's girlfriend easily having info about this case and being able to give it to her boyfriend who was in need of something to help himself get a lighter sentence. The Defense asked if the Det. knew WITN. Well, that station is based in Greenville, where the informant and possibly his girlfriend call home! Both WRAL and WITN are local stations - the case was covered by both.

Throwing up all they can find as reasonable doubt.
 
The first chair defense lawyer looks like he's not paying attention half the time....


Poor guy (seriously) -- he's got that been-there-done-that-thousand-mile stare. Who could blame him? He needs some chocolate, ba-a-a-ad...
 
Boodles, Boz explained- or tried to explain that agreement in closing.

I am STILL confused about it. Are you? How about the rest? HELP!

I know GH and/or AH concocted the doc. Left it to be discovered/or used.
Went to TX. Someone in TX mentioned custody case/kidnapping per KB. KB contended on stand GH didn't want to go to jail and both were concerned about taking kids over state line.

WHY? Wouldn't the doc have made that a breeze? Did they just say that to be able to leave ASAP? They knew LA was dead. No one was going to challenge them taking kids anywhere! And they had that doc!

Anyone recall did Grant text/email/talk to anyone while Laura's disappearance is being investigated that he "is" in midst of custody case with LA? The jail house informant mentioned something about it didn't he? And wouldn't the doc have made that moot?

Finally he talks to LE and contradicts the doc, flips it completely saying he was going to give custody TO Laura.

COUNT ME CONFUSED!!! :banghead:

Ok, the agreement document. IMO of course. It's bogus. It's exactly what Boz said, something to convince the cops that they made an under the table deal and Laura took off with the cash.

My personal opinion is I don't think Laura wrote the bottom part. And I don't think the prosecutors do either. I think it was traced from prior documents. That might sound crazy, but the word combinations are crappy, and the spacing and line alignment are strange. And she wouldn't have mispelled her attorney's name this late in the game. Maybe she did in another written document the year before or it was forged with a mispelling.

The (relative newbie) FBI lady said it was Laura's handwriting, so what can the prosecution say? They can't really say "the FBI expert is mistaken" so they have to work around this in their case, thus saying maybe she wrote it with a knife to her throat. I thought Boz came close to alluding it was traced, but maybe I was imagining it.

I bet AH or someone in that close circle of people have forged a thing or two in the past. I think they took docs with Laura's handwriting, used words from those docs to trace a draft, and then kept tracing til they got it in its current form. Why didn't they fingerprint it? I guess it wouldn't matter since they could have had her hold it or otherwise get her prints on it. But if they weren't on it, that would be telling. I realize to be an FBI fingerprint handwriting expert, you've got to have qualifications, but I just don't believe Laura wrote it.

But the document, just as GH intended it to be, is the sticky part of this defense. It is very confusing. But Laura would never have voluntarily agreed to this, and if she had, she wouldn't be dead, would she? I hope the jurors get this.

As far as KB saying that their being in TX was kidnapping and GH's "worry" about it, that was bogus, too. Who was going to report him as taking the kids out of state? This whole thing was just an excuse to leave Texas very quickly. "Hey, we're coming to visit. Uh oh. Now that we're here, we're worried about a kidnapping charge. So we'll just take your boat out in the dark and then leave so we won't get in trouble." This actually lends some credibility to KB's testimony, IMO.

Denial is an amazing emotion. Did KB know by her intuition? Yes. Did she have details and facts? I really don't think so. I suspect much was left unsaid, and she closed her eyes and held her breath for them to leave and the nightmare to go away, which of course, it didn't. Thankfully, she cooperated completely. Without her, who knows how things would stand? But I also reserve the right to change my mind during AH's trial. ;) That is, if KB lives that long. I think this thing has destroyed her health. But I'm just speculating.

Also, back to the document, I think part of the scheme was to say in texts and email, "did you contact your attorney yet?" in order to pretend she was going to officially drop the custody case which was scheduled. But those were sent after she was dead.

It is all quite confusing. I think Amanda came up with the agreement cover up idea. GH is too stupid. (Not that the agreement thing is smart, but it does confuse things.)
 
Anyone want to venture why they didn't call Mama Hayes?

She was mentioned several times in testimony-

She took in Laura and the boys after Grant kicked Laura out.
She and her husband's daycare biz was mentioned.
She and her husband were mentioned in the Psych report.
The informant mentioned his girlfriend called her at least twice.

(btw- didn't you love the three way calling through the jail's paytell system?)

Why didn't either side call her?

I really want to know:

Did and is she putting money in jail accounts for Amanda and Grant to have snacks etc per Grant's request?
Did she set up that paytell account?
Did she speak to the informant's girlfriend?

Why did we hear about Amanda's family dynamic during Grant Hayes trial? Will we hear his family dynamic during her trial?
Is that when we will see and hear from Mama Hayes?

Wouldn't there have been taped conversations???

She and Grant II are raising Laura's sons aren't they?
 
Both defense attorneys get to give closing arguments?

I guess the defense went first? I thought the State always went first, then the defense, then the state?

In NC, the State always goes last with one exception: If the defense chooses not to put on a case -- legalese for saying that they feel the PT case is so weak, they do not think it needs any testimony for argument or rebuttal, etc. (Often it means that the DT doesn't have a leg to stand on...). In that case, the DT gets the last word. In the trial of Ryan Hare (murder of Matt Silliman) the DT did not put on a defense.

ETA: And yes, CUCKOOHEAD, the State can choose to "sandwich" its closing: The State, then the Defense, then the State with the last word, with the noted exception above.
 
Thanks Boodles!

That agreement is driving me nuts! I know you can't use logic where criminal conduct goes, it's like a hamster tunnel with several elbows leading no where. If it were the truth the tunnel would fit.

Concur - BOGUS. Concur- LAURA didn't write it. OR if she was forced to write it she purposefully misspelled attorney's name to send up red flag.

Not sure about Amanda's idea though??? HMMMM>

The whole - GRANT cares about the boys, Laura cares only about $$$

is GRANT HAYES mantra, imo. There is that new tidbit for me about Amanda's second husband being her custody attorney though! Ron Adamson.

(btw- I found an article about a Ron Adamson attorney in New Mexico Here is the link. Anyone know if it is the same guy?)

http://www.krqe.com/news/crime/farmington-lawyer-charged-with-fraud-

I also NOW see - thank you Boodles! -
Use the agreement in Raleigh as a deflection decoy for police. CHECK
Use custody agreement in Texas as excuse to leave with KB. CHECK

It shows these two had custody on the foreground of their brains during this time frame, right? And with KB's testimony it wasn't ONLY GH but AH too.

OK, I think the fog has lifted! :tyou:
 
So by a show of hands, how many people think that we are in for a BIG surprise from the jury on Monday?

"Big Surprise" in the format of a "not guilty" verdict

No surprise expected by me. Guilty 1st degree is my vote!
 
Ok, the agreement document. IMO of course. It's bogus. It's exactly what Boz said, something to convince the cops that they made an under the table deal and Laura took off with the cash.

My personal opinion is I don't think Laura wrote the bottom part. And I don't think the prosecutors do either. I think it was traced from prior documents. That might sound crazy, but the word combinations are crappy, and the spacing and line alignment are strange. And she wouldn't have mispelled her attorney's name this late in the game. Maybe she did in another written document the year before or it was forged with a mispelling.

The (relative newbie) FBI lady said it was Laura's handwriting, so what can the prosecution say? They can't really say "the FBI expert is mistaken" so they have to work around this in their case, thus saying maybe she wrote it with a knife to her throat. I thought Boz came close to alluding it was traced, but maybe I was imagining it.

I bet AH or someone in that close circle of people have forged a thing or two in the past. I think they took docs with Laura's handwriting, used words from those docs to trace a draft, and then kept tracing til they got it in its current form. Why didn't they fingerprint it? I guess it wouldn't matter since they could have had her hold it or otherwise get her prints on it. But if they weren't on it, that would be telling. I realize to be an FBI fingerprint expert, you've got to have qualifications, but I just don't believe Laura wrote it.

But the document, just as GH intended it to be, is the sticky part of this defense. It is very confusing. But Laura would never have voluntarily agreed to this, and if she had, she wouldn't be dead, would she? I hope the jurors get this.

As far as KB saying that their being in TX was kidnapping and GH's "worry" about it, that was bogus, too. Who was going to report him as taking the kids out of state? This whole thing was just an excuse to leave Texas very quickly. "Hey, we're coming to visit. Uh oh. Now that we're here, we're worried about a kidnapping charge. So we'll just take your boat out in the dark and then leave so we won't get in trouble." This actually lends some credibility to KB's testimony, IMO.

Denial is an amazing emotion. Did KB know by her intuition? Yes. Did she have details and facts? I really don't think so. I suspect much was left unsaid, and she closed her eyes and held her breath for them to leave and the nightmare to go away, which of course, it didn't. Thankfully, she cooperated completely. Without her, who knows how things would stand? But I also reserve the right to change my mind during AH's trial. ;) That is, if KB lives that long. I think this thing has destroyed her health. But I'm just speculating.

Also, back to the document, I think part of the scheme was to say in texts and email, "did you contact your attorney yet?" in order to pretend she was going to officially drop the custody case which was scheduled. But those were sent after she was dead.

It is all quite confusing. I think Amanda came up with the agreement cover up idea. GH is too stupid. (Not that the agreement thing is smart, but it does confuse things.)

Good post, Boodles! I agree with your thought processes! I think KB intuitively figured out what was going on but don't think details were ever told to her. I still think that AH was trying to get her to help them & knew she would be more likely to try to help AH get out of a jam than GH, thus AH claiming responsibility to her. I personally think GH committed the murder, while AH kept the kids occupied. I think AH is complicit but don't think she actually committed the murder. For whatever reason, she was committed to GH ( maybe because of the birth of Lilly) and probably planned the trip to TX, etc. and helped w/ the coverup. I may change my mind when AH goes to trial but I do feel that she was the primary caretaker of the kids in that household.
 
Help me understand why a psychologist calls out GH for having "disturbed illogical thinking" & at the same time recommends joint custody, effectively setting Laura up to continually have to deal with this man? THAT makes no sense. Am thankful my custody evaluator suggested sole custody for me due to my Ex's of the chart scores on the MMPI under the psychopathic deviant scale, lying, and other scales. Why in the world would you say the man has these problems and then make sure that the woman he has the pathological hatred of has to deal with him in a "joint" custody situation. I sure hope she rethinks what kinds of recommendations she makes after this case!
Please, psychologists out there, when you effectively recognize this personality disorder, please protect the other party and quit, almost routinely, recommending "joint custody" forcing the parties to keep interacting!
But at least good for her recognizing his pattern and not being manipulated by him, I guess.
 
I think the point that the psychologist was driving home (with regards to the 50/50 custody thing)

Was that their age was critical for the "bonding period" and stated that LH Had Gentle over the most critical "bonding phase" of the child first months alive.. She also stated that when GH won took back custody, the child didn't recognize him as a parent.

GH & LH had a relatively short relationship considering the fact that they made 2 kids.. they met in Fall 07, had a kid by summer 08, another one I'm guessing 1.5 years later and broke up a month after it was born.

The psychologist recommended based on the ages of the kids that they should have 50/50

I guess Laura's "Immaturity, lack of assertiveness and direction" balanced out grants "batshit-insaneness" (according to the Dr)

I think as a professional with so many patients assigned to you by the courts.. she probably didn't deem the children to be in danger..

she did a very, very thorough examination across the board.
 
Help me understand why a psychologist calls out GH for having "disturbed illogical thinking" & at the same time recommends joint custody, effectively setting Laura up to continually have to deal with this man? THAT makes no sense. Am thankful my custody evaluator suggested sole custody for me due to my Ex's of the chart scores on the MMPI under the psychopathic deviant scale, lying, and other scales. Why in the world would you say the man has these problems and then make sure that the woman he has the pathological hatred of has to deal with him in a "joint" custody situation. I sure hope she rethinks what kinds of recommendations she makes after this case!
Please, psychologists out there, when you effectively recognize this personality disorder, please protect the other party and quit, almost routinely, recommending "joint custody" forcing the parties to keep interacting!
But at least good for her recognizing his pattern and not being manipulated by him, I guess.

I agree with you COMPLETELY!

The PSYCH part of this horrible case troubles me so - the way the court stalled the case while a psychologist held the proceedings hostage because her palm had not been greased AGAIN. That is what happened right? She sent a note to everyone saying SORRY, I'm holding the cards and I won't show them UNTIL I get another $5,000! I sincerely hope someone investigates how those evals are done because it appears to me the courts failed LAURA and HER TWO CHILDREN! Any one else wonder if the dunn for more money was the tinder and the report was the match?

I actually cried as her attorney related the callous court protocol. A Judge doesn't want to be bothered to write more than one order so they just extend a temp order (that was done outside the normal court) until some psych eval is done. Surely the doctor knows this is how the court operates and she used it to HER advantage. Ticks me off, the court will hold a hearing FIRST about some court appointed psychologist getting her next installment BUT the fate of children would have to wait. Makes me hot just to type!!! And then to hear her report and the illogical custody recommendation!

I keep wondering... how far along was this dr? When did the info about Amanda and Grant wanting to "annihilate LA" surface? When did Grant's "extreme hatred toward Laura" surface? The Dr can write a note to all parties about payment but NOT serious red flags like these? LA's attorney said she expressed concern before that dunn business for more money by the psychologist (and someone correct me if I am wrong, it seemed as through the extra money had zip to do with real work necessary to generate the eval but more to do with Grant dragging his feet and therefore opening the door for the dr to bill one more installment). I feel as though the Dr manipulated the court and held it hostage and the court allowed such conduct! The woman had been given $10 GRAND. I truly would like to know what her margins are and an itemization of her fees. What was that extra $5000 going to accomplish - $2500 from Laura and $2500 from Grant.

I know I sound heartless with these questions but I think that psych eval was extremely relative. And hey, from my chair, that dr sounded COLD AS ICE!

Grant had reached a point where he pushed back about more payment for that psychologist. Thank heaven I have never been a party to this sort of case so my perspective is naive. I recall Amanda had been married to an attorney who specialized in family/custody law AND Amanda had been through a custody case. She had the MOST experience in these matters. more than the real parents! Granted her experience was decades ago. But I wonder if her past/experience affected/influenced Grant not paying the dunn for more money from that psychologist? Maybe they thought the court would look and tell the Dr. enough. I sure would like to know what questions the court asked that doctor that day! The reality was the family court was more concerned with that doctor getting her fee than the case moving forward imo and Laura was just following along doing the best she could and she trusted the system to work. Instead it failed her! Let's hope it has learned!

Carynative - I'm glad I'm not the only one pondering that portion of this trial! I believe it deserves it's own investigation!!
 
You make some good points, Veracity! It was my understanding that the original $10000 GH paid was never intended to be the total cost, kind of like an upfront payment to an attorney. Once they have used up that $$, they bill you more. I'm not justifying her fee but even Judge Stevens stated that these are very thorough evals & are expensive. I don't think GH dragging his feet caused the need for the additional $5000, I think he was dragging his feet because she asked for more money. My guess is that experience has shown these psychologists that if they don't get their money upfront, they won't ever get it! It is unfortunate that all of these professionals have such a steep hourly fee. I also agree that the 50/50 custody recommendation was too generous to GH. I think he should have been required to see a psychiatrist and undergo therapy before he could have the kids without supervision. It would seem to me that her report should have raised red flags about LA's safety. Once she became aware of the amount of rage GH had for LA, she should have recommended that LA not have any contact w/GH unless in a public place. Poor LA, even though she expressed concerns for her own safety, her desire to see her kids trumped her safety concerns and she went to his apartment. I definitely believe he lured her there & should prove premeditation. The document she signed is still very troubling. I see why he wanted her to sign it. IMO, it was definitely so that it would lead LE to believe she took the money & just ran away. I just can't see under what scenario he got her to sign it. I don't think we'll ever know.
 
Thank you all for the wonderful posts that have kept me up to date. My BFF came in for a week's visit late Wednesday, and we've been gallivanting ever since! LOL! Now I can pick and choose what to view/listen to over the weekend while she is playing games on my laptop.

Right now, I'm listening to closing arguments. Once done with that, I'm going to watch KB's testimony.

Again, thanks to all!
 
I missed closing arguments, could not believe that DH decided Friday was the day for the day trip to Gettysburg to lay flowers at dear 2nd grt uncles grave. We found him, it was so sad. 19 marched from ny and nvr came hm. So, I missed the closings but I feel that I have faith in our good judge and jury.

Does anyone Hv a link to the closing a on YouTube or did anyone download thm? I really want to hear the states case. Tia!! Justice c'mon soon for Laura!
 
I missed closing arguments, could not believe that DH decided Friday was the day for the day trip to Gettysburg to lay flowers at dear 2nd grt uncles grave. We found him, it was so sad. 19 marched from ny and nvr came hm. So, I missed the closings but I feel that I have faith in our good judge and jury.

Does anyone Hv a link to the closing a on YouTube or did anyone download thm? I really want to hear the states case. Tia!! Justice c'mon soon for Laura!

Prosecution did a great job, loved the lady's closing more then the males but when he bought out the electric saw, its just a sad sad ending.. They made some great points, points about control on grants end and just the evilness behind the murder and dismembering of Laura's body. Both of them are guilty so i pray he is charged, scarred to watch.

Defense closing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkDTUj3X48k&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Prosecution closing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2EJEgTecs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
 
Island mixed woohoo and a hug and a huge Ty from me for posting the links, THANKS!
 
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