GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #11

[sundrop]

June 3rd

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[borndem]

When are court dates? Surprised we haven't seen talk of a guilty plea yet.

It does seem to me, reedus, that the parties would be talking plea, but what? It simply cannot be less than M2, for sure. I hope...

Does the State have a solid M1 case? I don't know that NH planned this murder -- and he has not been charged, as far as the record at the Cumberland County Jail record indicates, link below, with anything other than M1, so that rules out for now the multiple-crime charge for M1.

It sounds like M2 to me.... Make no mistake, I want to see this slimer locked up till he no longer breathes our air, but I don't know if a jury can be convinced of M1. LE certainly knows more than we ever will, but a 12-juror M1 verdict? Hmmmm. Maybe with his previous convictions a M2 conviction could get him 60 years or so minimum (he is 27 y/o), but I dunno. I'll have to look at the range and figure prior felony points to see...

The DA could be saying M1 in order to get a M2 plea, who knows?? Does NH think he can slide out of this one after taking the PI (is that his title?) to the burial site? Is he that dumb?

Just my O.

http://www.ccsonc.org/active_inmates/Inmates.aspx

 

[sundrop]

A trail = not guilty plea, anything else would be a plea. Possibly the threat of the death penalty in order to accept life without parole

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[borndem]

A trail = not guilty plea, anything else would be a plea. Possibly the threat of the death penalty in order to accept life without parole

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Exactly, sundrop. FWIW, if it is to be a DP trial, the State must notify the Court and the defendant.

 

[reedus23]

It does seem to me, reedus, that the parties would be talking plea, but what? It simply cannot be less than M2, for sure. I hope...

Does the State have a solid M1 case? I don't know that NH planned this murder -- and he has not been charged, as far as the record at the Cumberland County Jail record indicates, link below, with anything other than M1, so that rules out for now the multiple-crime charge for M1.

It sounds like M2 to me.... Make no mistake, I want to see this slimer locked up till he no longer breathes our air, but I don't know if a jury can be convinced of M1. LE certainly knows more than we ever will, but a 12-juror M1 verdict? Hmmmm. Maybe with his previous convictions a M2 conviction could get him 60 years or so minimum (he is 27 y/o), but I dunno. I'll have to look at the range and figure prior felony points to see...

The DA could be saying M1 in order to get a M2 plea, who knows?? Does NH think he can slide out of this one after taking the PI (is that his title?) to the burial site? Is he that dumb?

Just my O.

http://www.ccsonc.org/active_inmates/Inmates.aspx

Good questions. I am completely unfamiliar with NC law. Am going to do some digging today. In general though, I think there's enough for first degree murder. Generally, the planning stage actually only means your actions were thought out before you did them, even if for seconds. I will do some digging but heck, I don't even know if NC has the death penalty. Ideally, they charge M1, seek death penalty, plea bargain down to life w/o parole. Let him rot in jail.

 

[sundrop]

Yes nc has the death penalty

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[OkieGranny]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-kelli-bordeaux-funeral-20140531,0,4163315.story

Kelli Bordeaux had finally made it home. More than two years after the petite, bright-eyed soldier went missing and one year after she'd been declared dead by the Army, Bordeaux arrived home in a flag-draped coffin to a church filled with mourners.

Dozens of friends, family members and soldiers filed into Cornerstone Church on Saturday to bid the 23-year-old soldier a final goodbye.

Family members spoke of Bordeaux being driven to succeed and loving challenges. It was her desire to help people, they said, that led her to eventually become a combat medic. A St. Cloud native, Bordeaux was stationed in Fort Bragg, N.C. when she vanished on April 14, 2012.

 

[sundrop]

Saw it on news not many people there in Florida

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[SteveP]

Yes nc has the death penalty

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Well, North Carolina technically has the death penalty, although the last execution in the state took place on Aug 18, 2006. There is currently, and has been for quite some time, a moratorium on executions, due to several reasons, not the least of which is vocal opposition from the North Carolina Medical Society to lethal-injection protocols. I frankly believe we have seen the last legal execution in North Carolina, given the political climate, but that is only my opinion.

I might add that I think it may be much more likely to get a conviction on M2 than M1. I understand that premeditation can be decided in the blink of an eye, but I worry that out of any 12 jurors potentially chosen, at least one or two may see a spat that quickly escalated out of control. Maybe the threat of the death penalty will be enough to get him to plead guilty to M1 in exchange for LWOP, but if not, I would rather see NH plead guilty to second degree than walk on a push for a first degree conviction. Whatever he gets in the way of punishment will not be enough in this life, as far as I am concerned, but his ultimate punishment may come after. JMO

 

[sundrop]

Coaching = we got in a fight

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[kimi_SFC]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...lli-bordeaux-funeral-20140531,0,4163315.story

Images from the linked article posted by OkieGranny brought me to tears :cry:

The unadulterated grief of Kelli's mother rips my heart to shreds. SPC Kelli Bordeaux was buried with full military honors.

The 21-gun salute, full military honor guard in all their regalia - they bid her farewell in the manner in which she deserved:

A hero's goodbye....

I just wish we didn't have to say goodbye at all....

#RIPKelli

:rose:


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[Madeleine74]

That is part of what makes people like NH so scary. Personally, I don't think anyone needs to apologize. The husband should have been and was looked at. I do think some, even after that though, added facts/assumptions in order to make the facts fit the theory instead of letting the facts dictate the theory, but I also think that is pretty common when we don't know all of the facts. We try to fill in the blanks ourselves.

BBM. Yes you articulated that perfectly. That in a nutshell was the problem. NH (to me) obviously looked like he was lying in his media interview the few days after KB was missing. He also kept his hands under the table which I found strange. I remember wanting to look at his hands and wondered why he hid them during that interview.

 

[borndem]

Good questions. I am completely unfamiliar with NC law. Am going to do some digging today. In general though, I think there's enough for first degree murder. Generally, the planning stage actually only means your actions were thought out before you did them, even if for seconds. I will do some digging but heck, I don't even know if NC has the death penalty. Ideally, they charge M1, seek death penalty, plea bargain down to life w/o parole. Let him rot in jail.

Yes, reedus -- NC does have the death penalty, and it could be that the State dangles the no-DP carrot in exchange for a M1 LWOP plea.

The Death Penalty was imposed by a NC jury on April 3, 2014, on a 25-yr-old ~man~ who was found guilty of horrible crimes against a 4-yr-old little girl.

And yes, again, planning is a must for M1, "however short," and that, as you say, would do it.

This waiting, waiting, waiting is tuff for us, but we've been there & done it before, so we'll just get our chocolate & our beverage and sit back & do it again...

 

[Madeleine74]

Based on what NH claimed... that he hit KB and knocked her unconscious and then put her in his car and took her to his tent/lean-to behind the bar, where he continued to hit her head until she died... that would very much count for M1 since he formed the intent to "keep hitting her in the head until she was dead." He formed the intent right there (if that story is true).

However, I don't know if this case rises to a DP case. I think in my mind it does not.

 

[borndem]

Well, North Carolina technically has the death penalty, although the last execution in the state took place on Aug 18, 2006. There is currently, and has been for quite some time, a moratorium on executions, due to several reasons, not the least of which is vocal opposition from the North Carolina Medical Society to lethal-injection protocols. I frankly believe we have seen the last legal execution in North Carolina, given the political climate, but that is only my opinion.

I might add that I think it may be much more likely to get a conviction on M2 than M1. I understand that premeditation can be decided in the blink of an eye, but I worry that out of any 12 jurors potentially chosen, at least one or two may see a spat that quickly escalated out of control. Maybe the threat of the death penalty will be enough to get him to plead guilty to M1 in exchange for LWOP, but if not, I would rather see NH plead guilty to second degree than walk on a push for a first degree conviction. Whatever he gets in the way of punishment will not be enough in this life, as far as I am concerned, but his ultimate punishment may come after. JMO

I agree 100%, SteveP! Unless we see/hear something that we don't know now (and we really know very few details), I think it is going to result in an M2 guilty verdict. For the last several years, the judges in Wake County have routinely added M2 to the Verdict Sheet, quite often to avoid the trial verdict being overturned and a new trial ordered because M2 was not included on the initial verdict sheet for the jurors to consider.

As I said earlier, it may be too tuff to get all 12 jurors to see 1st Degree Murder...

 

[borndem]

Based on what NH claimed... that he hit KB and knocked her unconscious and then put her in his car and took her to his tent/lean-to behind the bar, where he continued to hit her head until she died... that would very much count for M1 since he formed the intent to "keep hitting her in the head until she was dead." He formed the intent right there (if that story is true).

However, I don't know if this case rises to a DP case. I think in my mind it does not.

I agree, Madeleine - I don't think this crime -- as we know it now -- rises to the DP level. NH will never give details if he did things to her that might gradate it to a DP-level, unless he blabs it to his cellie or told the PI, etc., so we may be left with what you have said above. If he raped her, it would qualify as a DP case, but we would need evidence of that. Minus that, we still have a M1 level crime, IMO. LWOP will do nicely.

 

[reedus23]

§ 14-17. Murder in the first and second degree defined; punishment.

(a) A murder which shall be perpetrated by means of a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon of mass destruction as defined in G.S. 14-288.21, poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of any arson, rape or a sex offense, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, or other felony committed or attempted with the use of a deadly weapon shall be deemed to be murder in the first degree, a Class A felony, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished with death or imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole as the court shall determine pursuant to G.S. 15A-2000, except that any such person who was under 18 years of age at the time of the murder shall be punished in accordance with Part 2A of Article 81B of Chapter 15A of the General Statutes.

(b) A murder other than described in subsection (a) of this section or in G.S. 14-23.2 shall be deemed second degree murder. Any person who commits second degree murder shall be punished as a Class B1 felon, except that a person who commits second degree murder shall be punished as a Class B2 felon in either of the following circumstances:

(1) The malice necessary to prove second degree murder is based on an inherently dangerous act or omission, done in such a reckless and wanton manner as to manifest a mind utterly without regard for human life and social duty and deliberately bent on mischief.

(2) The murder is one that was proximately caused by the unlawful distribution of opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90-90(1)d., or methamphetamine, and the ingestion of such substance caused the death of the user.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-17.html

 

[reedus23]

The kidnapping charge against NH certainly makes this a M1 case IMO. If there is any indication Kelli was sexually accosted as well, it adds to it. I really think the DA can make a solid case for M1 in this instance. The fact that, per NH's words (I know, with a grain of salt) he only knocked her out in front and took her in back and continued the beating makes it a pretty clear case of M1. Just my opinion.

 

[sundrop]

Yes the kidnapping makes it a felony murder and therefore M1

NH saying that they got into an argument likely comes from him being coached

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[borndem]

The kidnapping charge against NH certainly makes this a M1 case IMO. If there is any indication Kelli was sexually accosted as well, it adds to it. I really think the DA can make a solid case for M1 in this instance. The fact that, per NH's words (I know, with a grain of salt) he only knocked her out in front and took her in back and continued the beating makes it a pretty clear case of M1. Just my opinion.

Thanks for citing statute on the meanings of 1st & 2nd degree murder from the NCGS. And yes, NH prolly did have time, however short, for deciding to kill her instead of "only" beating her in the head.

My worry is whether the 12 jurors will all understand premeditation well enuff to have no reasonable doubts that this was more than a hot-tempered and split-second reaction. That one phantom juror who will not budge...

Obviously, I've already got the pre-verdict (and we're not even close to that yet) heebie-jeebies... I'll get over it...