GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #11

[reedus23]

Thanks for citing statute on the meanings of 1st & 2nd degree murder from the NCGS. And yes, NH prolly did have time, however short, for deciding to kill her instead of "only" beating her in the head.

My worry is whether the 12 jurors will all understand premeditation well enuff to have no reasonable doubts that this was more than a hot-tempered and split-second reaction. That one phantom juror who will not budge...

Obviously, I've already got the pre-verdict (and we're not even close to that yet) heebie-jeebies... I'll get over it...

I hear ya about the heebie-jeebies. Can you imagine how much more intense they are for those more directly involved?

As for the pre-meditation...NH's own words that it started in front and ended in back is more than enough for me think that a jury will get the premeditation involved. That is actually a TON of time to think about what is happening, what is going on, what you're going to do and so forth. If I were the DA, it would be as simple as this. I would take what ever time I think it took from the point of the first strike to the time he took her around back and then ultimately killed her. If I thought that was 3 minutes or 5 minutes or whatever, I would finish a sentence, standing in front of the jury and just stare at them. For the entire 5 minutes. Let them wonder "What the hell is he doing?" After 5 minutes, ask them "How many thoughts went through your head during the silence? How many questions went through your head during that silence? That is how much time NH had to think about what he was going to do next. That is premeditation."

Sometimes we have a warped sense of time. It's human nature. Go stand in front of a mirror with a watch. Look in the mirror for 5 minutes and just recite what you know about Kelli's case. It will seem like it never ends. That's a lot of time. No. I don't think showing premeditation will be a problem.

 

[borndem]

I hear ya about the heebie-jeebies. Can you imagine how much more intense they are for those more directly involved?

As for the pre-meditation...NH's own words that it started in front and ended in back is more than enough for me think that a jury will get the premeditation involved. That is actually a TON of time to think about what is happening, what is going on, what you're going to do and so forth. If I were the DA, it would be as simple as this. I would take what ever time I think it took from the point of the first strike to the time he took her around back and then ultimately killed her. If I thought that was 3 minutes or 5 minutes or whatever, I would finish a sentence, standing in front of the jury and just stare at them. For the entire 5 minutes. Let them wonder "What the hell is he doing?" After 5 minutes, ask them "How many thoughts went through your head during the silence? How many questions went through your head during that silence? That is how much time NH had to think about what he was going to do next. That is premeditation."

Sometimes we have a warped sense of time. It's human nature. Go stand in front of a mirror with a watch. Look in the mirror for 5 minutes and just recite what you know about Kelli's case. It will seem like it never ends. That's a lot of time. No. I don't think showing premeditation will be a problem.

That's exactly what Howard Cummings, First Assistant District Attorney for Wake County, did in the Nancy Cooper/Brad Cooper murder trial. B. Cooper was on trial for the M1 strangulation of his wife, Nancy Cooper.

The last thing Cummings did for the State's closing argument was to tell the jury that a fatal strangulation of an adult would take about 2--3 minutes. He looked at his watch & the clock on the wall, and started walking back & forth in the court room. He announced "1 minute"; then he walked & walked some more, and announced, "2 minutes." It seemed like it took forrrr-everrrrr.

Then he walked & walked some more, looked at the clock, walked over to the little podium where his case notebook and notes were, and said something like, "3 minutes, that's it," and he slammed his big 3-ring binder shut with a big, big bang, glared across the courtroom at the defendant, and went & sat down in his chair at the ADA's table. That was it.

The verdict was Guilty of First Degree Murder.



(It has been appealed, but it has nothing to do with his quiet little courtroom walk.)

 

[Madeleine74]

Yeah that was a powerful 3 minutes. Plus you could hear her mother, sister and some friends sobbing during those 3 minutes, which was agonizing. Actually what HC said at each minute was...

"That's one minute...she's not dead yet..."

"That's 2 minutes...still have another minute to go..."

And then at 3 minutes, "Now she's dead." <then slam with the notebook>

At the same time he was holding his own neck in a choking manner to emphasize what was happening to the victim, the entire time. He also sauntered over towards the defendant to stare at him, and the defendant had a small smirk on his face the whole time.

Strangulation always meets the criteria for premeditated murder because the killer knows if they keep going they will kill the victim and by doing so they've made a conscious decision.

 

[seattlechiquita]

So glad to read about arrest. So sad to hear Kelli will no longer walk among us. RIP and a hero goodbye indeed. <3

 

[borndem]

Yeah that was a powerful 3 minutes. Plus you could hear her mother, sister and some friends sobbing during those 3 minutes, which was agonizing. Actually what HC said at each minute was...

"That's one minute...she's not dead yet..."

"That's 2 minutes...still have another minute to go..."

And then at 3 minutes, "Now she's dead." <then slam with the notebook>

At the same time he was holding his own neck in a choking manner to emphasize what was happening to the victim, the entire time. He also sauntered over towards the defendant to stare at him, and the defendant had a small smirk on his face the whole time.

Strangulation always meets the criteria for premeditated murer because the killer knows if they keep going they will kill the victim and by doing so they've made a conscious decision.

Thanks, Mad, for painting the whole picture. Very powerful, yes. I kept thinking that poor Nancy -- at least for part of the strangulation -- kept trying to survive while thinking the whole time, IMO, about what would happen to her little girls. A horrible part of a death by strangulation, if the perpetrator is known to the victim, is that usually the victim knows who is doing the strangulation, and knowing that he/she is going to die.

 

[sundrop]

Of course strangulation is not involved in Kelli's case

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[Bravo]

My deepest and sincere condolences to Kelli's Family. This one stuck for me at the start. Kelli is a twin to a Family member of mine. I'm glad she was found. May they find peace in the days to come.

 

[borndem]

Of course strangulation is not involved in Kelli's case

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No, it's not strangulation (as far as we know so far, anyway), but the scenario I presented was a way to show a jury how long 3 minutes actually can be -- the big lesson here was to show that premeditation doesn't require a written list or a trip to the PC to do research.

It was to show the time involved in going from the front of the FB to NH's nest in the back -- it was prolly a 1-- 5 minute walk -- premeditation (def. plotting, planning or deliberating, to do something) can be a very short time.

 

[sundrop]

They don't need to show premeditation; he is charged with 1st degree murder and kidnapping. By being charged with 1st degree murder it is already assumed it was premeditated. Also, this is a felony murder case; a murder occurred during the commission of a felony - kidnapping. That qualifies for a possible capital crime.

No, it's not strangulation (as far as we know so far, anyway), but the scenario I presented was a way to show a jury how long 3 minutes actually can be -- the big lesson here was to show that premeditation doesn't require a written list or a trip to the PC to do research.

It was to show the time involved in going from the front of the FB to NH's nest in the back -- it was prolly a 1-- 5 minute walk -- premeditation (def. plotting, planning or deliberating, to do something) can be a very short time.

 

[reedus23]

They don't need to show premeditation; he is charged with 1st degree murder and kidnapping. By being charged with 1st degree murder it is already assumed it was premeditated. Also, this is a felony murder case; a murder occurred during the commission of a felony - kidnapping. That qualifies for a possible capital crime.

True enough, but I would bet they put evidence of premeditation on so all of their eggs aren't in one basket. If for some reason they were to lose on the kidnapping charge, they could still get M1 that way.

 

[sundrop]

What they should be worried about is the tactics used by the PI, that NH confessed to murder and nothing was done until the next day when he showed where the body was

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[Madeleine74]

When did the PI inform LE he confessed?

 

[reedus23]

When did the PI inform LE he confessed?

Looks like he first advised them on Tuesday night of the developments but LE didn't jump right in. He called them again Wednesday morning to advise they they found Kelli and LE took over from there.

In the hotel parking lot, Marshburn called Fayetteville police Detective Jeff Locklear, who worked on the Bordeaux case. Marshburn said he updated Locklear as new information came up, but he didn't receive any advice from him.

Marshburn didn't sleep much that night. He didn't tell his wife or his friends, he said.

"I tossed and turned. I just couldn't wait for morning to break," he said. "I was on pins and needles."

Ward and Marshburn picked Holbert up about 7:30a.m. Wednesday morning.

Just before 11 a.m., Marshburn found the spot. He didn't tell Holbert.

"I notified Locklear. Locklear told me to stop what you're doing," Marshburn said. "I sent Nick the opposite way, because you don't know what's in his state of mind."

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/article_2cc9dace-102b-5dea-a291-1c314d2e37a6.html

 

[sundrop]

That's misleading because NH was with the PI when Kelli was found, Nick showed him where the grave was

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[sundrop]

Oddly weeks old article is being updated in recent days. He said he updated the detective but it doesn't say what he told him. If he told the detective the NH had confessed , then legally detective should have told him to stop everything right then

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[OldSteve]

Do we have a MSM article that says NH confessed to LE as well as to the PI?
I would think LE would want to get their own confession directly from Nick.

 

[sundrop]

Yes, Nick made a statement to LE after they arrested him; however, that doesn't matter as far as his statement to the PI.

Do we have a MSM article that says NH confessed to LE as well as to the PI?
I would think LE would want to get their own confession directly from Nick.

 

[reedus23]

That's misleading because NH was with the PI when Kelli was found, Nick showed him where the grave was

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I think that's what the article says. NH took him to the area, the PI found the grave itself but didn't tell NH right off but called LE instead because he didn't know how NH would react. NH confessed to PI on Tuesday. PI told LE about it. NH took PI to the grave and they found Kelli. PI told LE about it. I didn't mean to mislead anyone if I did.

 

[reedus23]

Yes, Nick made a statement to LE after they arrested him; however, that doesn't matter as far as his statement to the PI.

I'm not sure in what sense you mean, but I do think it is important. The more times he is repeating his confession and to more people, the harder it will be for NH to retract his confession or say it was coerced or that the PI is lying.

 

[sundrop]

Not saying he's lying but legally when he first confessed, body or no body, and especially if PI is on the phone with detective, law enforcement should have stepped in right then.

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