Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[Jaiddie]

I can't see any of them being named as suspects in court unless law enforcement decides to actually investigate them, otherwise no evidence will exist. Based on what we know now, as Strang has said, it's unlikely Avery is successful unless NEW evidence is uncovered. I agree with that.

But the hard part is that new evidence isn't going to come from law enforcement. It will need to come from private investigators. Which would seem to be alot tougher, since they aren't going to be able to interview people who don't want to be interviewed. For example, if Chuck Avery or Ex Boyfriend were involved, are they even going to want to talk about anything ?

My opinion is that whatever authority that is supposed to oversee and be the check/balance for law enforcement and the legal system in Wisconsin, should be forced to investigate the process of the investigation and the legal proceedings of this case under a larger microscope. Because if that is proven to be unfair, that would seem to have a better shot than trying to do an investigation that should have been done 10 years ago.

jmo

There is a petition for that going around...not sure about rules so I am just gonna put the google link up but it the the first option.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Ini...d+Calumet+County,+Wisconsin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[JanIreland]

Glad to hear SA and BD are receiving lots of cards, letters and well-wishes from the general public.

Anything to help keep their spirits up as they (hopefully) await a new trial.

Wonder if anyones writing to the Halbach family....or are they only receiving accusations at the moment

 

[MaxManning]

I informed BRYAN of the information that BRENDAN had said about the night of 10/31/05. I gave BRYAN details on what BRENDAN had seen in the fire and the comments that STEVEN had made to him that night. I asked BRYAN if he could again explain his activities on 10/31/05.

I've got a real problem with this part right here -

There is some version of brendan's many stories that talks about brendan asking Bryan if he needed help working on his car, and Bryan said he didn't. I have seen no interview details with bryan, but definitely would like to see them. At minimum they could be used to add weight to something brendan said -- or if bryan says that conversation never happened, that adds more weight to brendan just trying another story to appease investigators.


But ultimately isn't that the biggest flaw in this whole case ? That the lack of investigation is mammoth, since they only adequately investigated things that pointed in Avery's direction.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.indiewire.com/article/wh...thru_newsletter&utm_source=iwDaily_newsletter

Ok, I feel like I am getting a little OCD now with my posting, but can't seem to help it, lol. Anyway, this is an article about the filmmakers and how before the trial began for SA, Kratz tried to get their production shut down, I think.

 

[SCHMAE]

http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/-making-a-murderer---filmmakers-discuss-documentary-598845507868

An interview with the filmmakers. Towards the end, they talk about the DNA found on the hood latch. Apparently the officer admitted that he was looking at one of Steven's cars and then went to the RAV4 and opened the latch and did NOT change his gloves. I know I had read this somewhere before, but couldn't find it again. I hope we eventually will get to see the transcripts from SA's trial.

Oh snap ! Good catch.
Ok I have a question about the timeline hopefully someone can help me with . Didn't the bus driver say she saw Teresa taking pictures at about 3:30? I'm guessing that taking pictures of the car takes a very, very short amount of time . Cars are not moving objects and need to be set and staged and their hair perfect , etc. So my guess is 10 min, 20 min tops to take 5 or 10 pictures of a car that is just sitting there. I just don't understand why she would be there nearly an hour taking pictures or even 30 minutes. So which time line do you all believe is accurate ? Is the bus driver lying or mistaken ? Maybe she only saw Teresa's car there? I have a hard time believing she could see that much from that ' long road'. Does anyone know the actual length of the long road ?
TIA

 

[MaxManning]

Summary of Bryan Dassey's Interview on 02-27-2006 (exhibit 89) - MUST READ!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/409ewx/bryan_dassey_interview_02272006_exhibit_89/

Here's a brief snippet:

This is the kind of document that I have always assumed was likely in the trial, and for some reason the documentary felt the need to leave it out. Where did this document come from ?

I am assuming there are going to be others like this, that contain interviews of Chuck, Earl, Tadych, Barb Janda, etc.

Again I will say, the fact that this document exists and the documentary didn't divulge more context, feels like manipulation to me.

This document, listed with an exhibit # which leads me to believe it was evidence in the avery trial, is an example of why certain people might not want the public to see the avery trial transcripts. This was not evidence in the dassey trial.

My expectations are that we see more evidence such as this , that paints a different picture of Avery than the manufactured image of Avery that the documentary needed for an emotional response.

jmo - but I have said numerous times that it's possible that Steve Avery is a very different guy than what was portrayed in the documentary.


Where did this file come from ? I recognize the name Fred J Walsh - which is who I believe posted the dassey docs ? could be wrong. But are we now going to see the avery trial transcripts in all their glory ?

can't wait...

 

[Jaiddie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur..._is_interestinga_woman_posted_this_about_her/

How many more victims are there in Manitowac? :thinking:

 

[MaxManning]

I think we have all assumed there was a much more complex story of relationship dynamics between all the characters at the junkyard. Kind of excited that it seems like we are going to get a closer look, instead of walking around with blinders on as if these people never interacted with each other. Now motives might seem to appear a bit more naturally, without people theorizing based on tiny bits that obviously point to far more complex dynamics.

 

[SCHMAE]

Ok I just went to google earth to see the distance of the ' long road'. Unless the bus driver drove down the long road and dropped the boys right in front of their house, then she saw Teresa taking pictures from 800 feet. 800 feet is roughly 2 1/2 football field lengths, so imagine how eagle eyed one would be to see details at that distance .

 

[MaxManning]

Is there a way to gain access to the interview documents, even the ones that weren't presented as evidence ?

I understand that the jury made it's decision on things presented in the trial, and they would be in the transcripts of the avery trial.

But given the nature of the Avery conviction that sent him to prison for 18 years, we should be looking at the full scope of evidence, including all interviews LE did with people at the junkyard.

In his rape conviction, there was no evidence of an alternative suspect. Avery likely didn't even know he existed at that point.

As happy as I will be to see trial transcripts. Without the full case files including interviews that weren't presented by prosecution as evidence, we are likely getting the same snowjob of the 1st case. right ?

Exclusion of relevant evidence is as equally unethical as inclusion of planted evidence imo.

 

[stephsb]

I can't see any of them being named as suspects in court unless law enforcement decides to actually investigate them, otherwise no evidence will exist. Based on what we know now, as Strang has said, it's unlikely Avery is successful unless NEW evidence is uncovered. I agree with that.

But the hard part is that new evidence isn't going to come from law enforcement. It will need to come from private investigators. Which would seem to be alot tougher, since they aren't going to be able to interview people who don't want to be interviewed. For example, if Chuck Avery or Ex Boyfriend were involved, are they even going to want to talk about anything ?

My opinion is that whatever authority that is supposed to oversee and be the check/balance for law enforcement and the legal system in Wisconsin, should be forced to investigate the process of the investigation and the legal proceedings of this case under a larger microscope. Because if that is proven to be unfair, that would seem to have a better shot than trying to do an investigation that should have been done 10 years ago.

jmo

I see what your saying, but the courts are not going to investigate this. Their dockets are already always overloaded, and the purpose of appellate courts is not to find or hear evidence, but rule on procedural error.

If they feel Denny was incorrectly applied, then we have a different story, as in the new trial they would be able to name names. So far, the WI courts have disagreed.


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[MaxManning]

Ok I just went to google earth to see the distance of the ' long road'. Unless the bus driver drove down the long road and dropped the boys right in front of their house, then she saw Teresa taking pictures from 800 feet. 800 feet is roughly 2 1/2 football field lengths, so imagine how eagle eyed one would be to see details at that distance .

I had questions about this earlier as well. I wanted to understand if this bus driver had any kind of relationship with anyone on the property besides the obvious one with Brendan and Blaine as their bus driver.

We do get the feeling that EVERYONE knew the Averys and many hated them.

So seeing the bus driver interview as well as understanding if she had any ties to anyone at the junkyard beyond the bus driver that drops their kids off, that is relevant imo.

We don't know exactly where she dropped them off, and to be honest, I am not clear on exactly where the van was. But I think that detail exists in documentary or somewhere as I believe I saw pics of where it was.

Hate to question a bus driver, but I think it's a very fair question to ask and to understand her relationship to anyone else at the junkyard.

 

[MaxManning]

I see what your saying, but the courts are not going to investigate this. Their dockets are already always overloaded, and the purpose of appellate courts is not to find or hear evidence, but rule on procedural error.

If they feel Denny was incorrectly applied, then we have a different story, as in the new trial they would be able to name names. So far, the WI courts have disagreed.


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Yeah, feels futile. Nobody with power is jumping into the picture. And a guy like Strang who understands the system, seems to indicate that it's an overwhelming task ahead. That's the impression I got from hearing him talk. Not that he wasn't up to the challenge, but that he was well aware that this was no small task.

 

[SCHMAE]

The film makers need to make another episode where they ask all Averys and others living on the property and all LE and DA personnel involved in the case to take a polygraph. Show the results of the ' three ' people who will agree and let you draw your own conclusions!

 

[MaxManning]

If any of you have a moment in your day to say a prayer for me, please do so. I am now going to watch that Nancy Grace clip that someone posted yesterday. I don't have blood pressure issues, but when I watch her, I can often question if I do.

 

[MaxManning]

The film makers need to make another episode where they ask all Averys and others living on the property and all LE and DA personnel involved in the case to take a polygraph. Show the results of the ' three ' people who will agree and let you draw your own conclusions!

They'll have to dig Earl out from under a pile of clothes to make something like that happen.

 

[Dogface]

Just finished last night. Will probably rewatch again at a slower pace while researching. I am still unsure where I stand on SA's innocence as far as facts go, but my heart says not guilty. But, the astounding feeling on ineptitude from LE makes me thing all the cases they have handled need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. I think yournaverage citizen who has watched a handful of true crime shows would be better investigators.

 

[MaxManning]

Ok, I'm very thankful that nancy grace clip was brief! I had been putting it off, because I was thinking it was going to be a solid 15 minutes of her yapping.

Steve saying teresa halbach leaves between 2-2:30 seems to fit relatively close with the Auto Trader saying she was heading to the junkyard.

It doesn't match bus driver.

It matches bobby dassey's account a bit more. not that I trust him.

But I think the key here is that the defense, based on the documentary, pushes the idea of a 3:45-ish sighting of teresa halbach. So, we have a large 1 hour-ish difference between the defense's account at trial and Avery's words in this clip.

That's kind of troubling to me. Why the change ?

 

[SCHMAE]

Timeline changes are so frustrating. O/T I'm a retired paralegal. I can remember this one massive timeline change in a trial that was so bizarre but you can learn a lot about how the system works with this. Guy on trial for ASA of a child. Child testified that it happened on a holiday . The DA made a big deal about their recollections too, the events, the decorations, the party , etc. Defendant's alibi ? In prison on that holiday and mos prior to and after that holiday . His crime was drug related, not a sex crime. ( the crime he served time for ) DA comes back and says words to the effect of ' well this is just a small child that doesn't really know what day things happen , etc'' . Defense said it must be a different perp because of the timing . Defendant was found guilty and got a life sentence. I was very young then and believed a lot more in the ' system' than today and I was shocked at the outcome. Timeline doesn't mean a whole lot in some instances.

 

[stephsb]

Love that you mentioned timelines, I interned for a defense firm and worked on a litigation case where I was tasked with helping the two paralegals go through all the evidence and statements and get a timeline together. It was one of the most time consuming tasks I've done, because the defendant was a high schooler, and most of the key witnesses were high schoolers, so they would making hundreds and hundreds of Facebook posts and text messages that would contradict their statements, their statements were inconsistent, etc. the Avery trial seems much worse- so many inconsistencies in these timelines.


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