Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

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Knowing he was abusive to women and also abusive to pets as well shows me he has the traits of a psychopath. Those who have read extensively over the years about psychopaths who turned to murder knows one of things that sets them off is if they feel they were wronged they will go to any lengths necessary to get even and yes, even murder. They are also known to murder victims that in their mind represents who and what they hate. With Avery, it was every young woman like TH but she happened to be the one he chose. Imo, he made sure of that and that is why he was setting her up trying to make her feel more comfortable coming out to the pile of junk. I think from the first time she came there he had selected TH as his victim. She was to be raped and murdered and that way he would not only get even with the woman who sent him to prison he would be ahead of his twisted game by taking it to the next level. IMO

I do have compassion for Brendan. I think for a very long time Avery had made him do many evil things this kid didn't want to do. I do think he really feared him and what he would do to him if he did not do as exactly as he told him to do.IMO

Snipped respectfully...

What an incredibly thought-out post! Thanks!

I totally agree with you!! I was curious if you have just read up on psychopaths or sociopaths or have had prior experience? What is scary to me is that I've seen sociopaths convince people of their innocence---but not to this level...

I do have compassion for Brendan as well. I agree with your statements on Brendan. I am also curious if you believe Brendan was involved and/or guilty?
 
How could Steven make Brendan do evil things "for a very long time" when Steven had only just met his nephew about a year prior to this crime?
 
Snipped respectfully...

What an incredibly thought-out post! Thanks!

I totally agree with you!! I was curious if you have just read up on psychopaths or sociopaths or have had prior experience? What is scary to me is that I've seen sociopaths convince people of their innocence---but not to this level...

I do have compassion for Brendan as well. I agree with your statements on Brendan. I am also curious if you believe Brendan was involved and/or guilty?

If Steven Avery is indeed a psychopath and plotted to kill Teresa Halbach, I would have assumed he would have tried to cover his tracks well so maybe he could kill again.

1) Why would he have left the RAV4 on his property when he could have disposed of it somewhere else along with Teresa's body and the key ?
Or why not just crush the car ?
2) Why would he have involved Brendan knowing that it could get him arrested down the road if the kid squealed ?
3) Why would he have shot Teresa knowing that gunshots could have been heard by anyone on the Avery property ?
4) Why would he assault Teresa in his house knowing that anyone (including his parents) might stop by at any time ?
 
Another point from the Netflix documentary that has probably been covered, but I didn't find a thread on it.

Teresa's license plate ...

Deputy Colborn testified in SA's trial that he didn't remember where he got Teresa's license plate # when he called dispatch to run the plate on 11/3. Might have gotten the # from Detective Weigert he said.

Why would Deputy Colborn have the run the plate if Weigert had already given the plate # as Teresa's ? The only explanation would be that he was sitting behind Teresa's SUV at the time of the call-in, which would exclude SA as the person who moved the car into the spot in the Avery junkyard where Sturm found the SUV.
 
...and you think that it was not his plan all along to claim that he was being set up...I think the first interview he did...he said he was set-up...I think he really thought people would just think that LE was out to get him..and he would get away scott free.

You mean premeditation? I answered a post asking how long did Avery have to clean up his trail and I said basically, he didn't do a very good job. He even left the key in his night table. Of course Steven was reported to have an IQ of 70. And, FWIW, I don't know if Steven killed this young woman. He was convicted. There were two different counties involved. I would think he would make a plan to go after the county who sent him to prison for all those years if he had a plan. But he was already going after the first county, Manitowoc (not sure how to spell it) by suing for up to 36 million dollars.
 
just gonna do some "things" that struck me before I get all "cluttered"

In reality until we can answer the video clip above and
One the most compelling things of the doc was the lab lady where she is instructed to "try and make him there". If that does not give all the players intent away then I do not know what does ..............a cop overtly telling her to attmept to put a suspect at the scene smells pretty stinky to me.

More than stinky - declaration of intent by those who are supposed to be seeking truth. PEROID


First thing is getting all into the "whole " event - it occurred to me that it is really vital to remember ground zero! Running a cops wife off the road and pointing a gun at her ,, in a uneducated, hick like community is probably gonna start a lot of sh$t- (cop mentality) in environs like that. So that IMO certainly lays a foundation for the next 20 years.



Another thing that was profound :

Colburn cop (name may be wrong but you know which one)
So let me see if I get this (he was creepy to me) . Days before the vehicle was located, and before she was reported missing - he calls in her tag number. WTF??

Her car was found without a tag, and on the stand he admitted he was not looking at the car - so the implications regarding foreknowledge seems pretty aparent. IMO

- gives me the impression that they were getting concerned that she "may" not get reported missing and they got a dead woman they need to get rid of and plant in his backyard??
. Would love to here the tale about how this dude ,is verifying some tag, from a owners car , before the car had been located. If he called in and said I am in the salvage yard and want to check this Rav 4 info out that would make a tiny bit of sense - but oppsss the tag had been removed , would love to here that tale!

He was never asked how he accomplished that amazing feat.

Bones found in several locations can only mean one thing. Stuff was moving around. If I just hacked someone to pieces the last thing I would be doing is spreading evidence around - its ludicrious.

If i murdered someone , and my plan was to burn her up 20 feet from my bedroom, why need do i have to be throwing her in the back of her vehicle for a 22 foot "drive" to the pit?? Makes no sesne whatsoever IMO

We are true crime followers, and we have seen, countless times the perp leading and or particpating in "searches" by the murderer. Teresas EX certainly implanted himself right in the middle of things now didn't he. So much to the point according to the documentary he was allowed special access on property . Additionally the one special person given the camera , is the one who finds the vehicle just reeks IMO.

. In addition , this EX being able to somehow hack her cell phone to provide information regarding her cell phone useage sounds like , well, BS. Did his answer satisfy any of you? And he THINKS it may have been his sisters birthdates>

Anyone really beleive , that one can't remember exactly, how one hacked into their murdered ex girlfriends cell phone? I could get not remembering months ago if you had a quarter pounder or chesse or was it a Whopper - but the methods one used to hack into a murder victim ' cell phone seems like it might be a memorable "event" in ones lefe experience !

He was very sly--something a guilty person would do. If you watch his testimony he gave information , but never committed himself to much. How can you remember, a long time ago that you did NOT see her on Sat, but totally recall that you DID see her on Sunday, sitting on her computer chair , but cant remember if the sun was shining or not.

Just in terms of memory functioning it is not how it works. To recall her sitting in her chair, the envorons of that memory would also be capable of being recalling (just by the function of memory of using cues in recall) . Sun up while driving over , or leaving , it gives context to a memory. Got to open my windows am smelling tuna fish!


He was never asked for an alibi in a murder investagation?

Back to the lucky searcher - the only one given a video camera- we have to remember that the Man cops were not suppossed to be doing anything on the property. They sure as heck could not find the vehicle by law. It would HAVE to be found by private searchers (ones with cameras awesome).

As I was watching it the searchers notions of being scared to death just , seemed like an act to me.. Would you really beleive that some murderer is hiding in the victims car ? And going to jump out and murder you, with tons of LE around? What nonsense IMO

But anyone with a noodle upstaris(!) would have to conclude the speed at which the car was located was nothing other than remarkable. Gosh the only one with a camera. As I watched the doc, I thought theire searching patterns was very atypical.

If someone is trying to hide something, in THAT lot I would not "hide" it on the outer perimeter of the messy place, I would go more into the mess. Locating the car was vital cause it allowed for the search warrents to be implemented (probable cause) - so it was , lets say to get the ball rolling, urgent that vehicle was located .hummmmmmmm


. The brother ,
And had bad vibes about him in general (Theresa). He was just instantly convneced that it was Avery- if it were my sister I would kinda want LE to do some looking around - casue what if in 10 months the one they only focused on was excluded - 10 months later - cold trail etc . He always made himself available to media

Anyone ever see anything that would resemeble affect about his sister being chopped up? Emotionially he was vacant.

I would be questioning why are you guys only looking at Avery especially since you already , in this very town, did that - wrongly. Bells would be ringing.

Brendons stepdad yucky as well he sure seemed to support that Avery did it - which keeps his step son totally involved ?

Bon fires DO NOT result in human bones looking chopped up - charred yes but to smitherians does not happen.

What was the video of Teresa at the end with all this love stuff -- it stuck me as peculiar - to have someone recording her telling the camera she LOVES everyone everything etc etc - relevence?

Guys go look at the pics of the key. Before and after --
 
IMo, until we can get this three minutes and 33 seconds sorted out it is pretty clear what was going on and what actually happened here :

[video=youtube;KpsRtPCWHoM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpsRtPCWHoM[/video]

Its the "oppssss" of the ENTIRE case !
 
IMo, until we can get this three minutes and 33 seconds sorted out it is pretty clear what was going on and what actually happened here :

[video=youtube;KpsRtPCWHoM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpsRtPCWHoM[/video]

Its the "oppssss" of the ENTIRE case !

I saw someone post somewhere that this footage was edited in that his jaw grinding was inserted a couple of times and music added to appear more sinister. With a grain of salt.
 
I saw someone post somewhere that this footage was edited in that his jaw grinding was inserted a couple of times and music added to appear more sinister. With a grain of salt.

It is kind of sinister, if you read the transcript of the testimony.
 
just gonna do some "things" that struck me before I get all "cluttered"

First thing is getting all into the "whole " event - it occurred to me that it is really vital to remmeber ground zero! Running a cops wife off the road and pointing a gun at her ,, in a uneducated, hick like community is probably gonna start a lot of sh$t- (cop mentality) in environs like that. So that IMO certainly lays a foundation for the next 20 years.
I agree but am going to attempt to answer some questions from the "other side."
One the most compelling things of the doc was the lab lady where she is instructed to "try and make him there". If that does not give all the players intent away then I do not know what does ..............a cop overtly telling her to attmept to put a suspect at the scene smells pretty stinky to me.
I agree
Another thing that was profound :

Colburn cop (name may be wrong but you know which one)
So let me see if I get this (he was creepy to me) . Days before the vehicle was located, and before she was reported missing - he calls in her tag number. WTF??
No-that isn't correct - he called the plate in after she was reported missing and the night before it was "found" on the lot
Her car was found without a tag, and on the stand he admitted he was not looking at the car - so the implications regarding foreknowledge seems pretty aparent. IMO
Well, I believe that Colburn stated on the stand that while he couldn't precisely "remember" he probably received the information from someone else as it was related over the phone - in other words, they were looking for this particular car...in other words, her plate #'s were already known to LE because she had been reported missing - if anything the plates not being on the car actually help Colburn because why would he bother to take the plate off of the car? And if the car was found without the plate how could he have been looking at the plate? P.S. Was there a front plate on the car, anyone know?
- gives me the impression that they were getting concerned that she "may" not get reported missing and they got a dead woman they need to get rid of and plant in his backyard?? No - she was already reported missing
. Would love to here the tale about how this dude ,is verifying some tag, from a owners car , before the car had been located. If he called in and said I am in the salvage yard and want to check this Rav 4 info out that would make a tiny bit of sense - but oppsss the tag had been removed , would love to here that tale!

He was never asked how he accomplished that amazing feat.

Bones found in several locations can only mean one thing. Stuff was moving around. If I just hacked someone to pieces the last thing I would be doing is spreading evidence around - its ludicrious. I know - kind of like a visit from Johnny Appleseed

If i murdered someone , and my plan was to burn her up 20 feet from my bedroom, why need do i have to be throwing her in the back of her vehicle for a 22 foot "drive" to the pit?? Makes no sesne whatsoever IMO
I agree with both - and why not use the smelter?
We are true crime followers, and we have seen, countless times the perp leading and or particpating in "searches" by the murderer. Teresas EX certainly implanted himself right in the middle of things now didn't he. So much to the point according to the documentary he was allowed special access on property . Additionally the one special person given the camera , is the one who finds the vehicle just reeks IMO.
i don't think the cousin that found the car was lying. I think she was kind of pushed in the right direction, perhaps
. In addition , this EX being able to somehow hack her cell phone to provide information regarding her cell phone useage sounds like , well, BS. Did his answer satisfy any of you? And he THINKS it may have been his sisters birthdates>
What he did is actually a federal offense but no one mentioned that - wonder if he got immunity
Anyone really beleive , that one can't remember exactly, how one hacked into their murdered ex girlfriends cell phone? I could get not remembering months ago if you had a quarter pounder or chesse or was it a Whopper - but the methods one used to hack into a murder victim ' cell phone seems like it might be a memorable "event" in ones lefe experience !

He was very sly--something a guilty person would do. If you watch his testimony he gave information , but never committed himself to much. How can you remember, a long time ago that you did NOT see her on Sat, but totally recall that you DID see her on Sunday, sitting on her computer chair , but cant remember if the sun was shining or not.

Just in terms of memory functioning it is not how it works. To recall her sitting in her chair, the envorons of that memory would also be capable of being recalling (just by the function of memory of using cues in recall) . Sun up while driving over , or leaving , it gives context to a memory. Got to open my windows am smelling tuna fish!


He was never asked for an alibi in a murder investagation?
Nope - imagine that - neither the ex-boyfriend who still hangs around nor the platonic male roommate
Back to the lucky searcher- the only one given a video camera- we have to remember that the Man cops were not suppossed to be doing anything on the property. They sure as heck could not find the vehicle by law. It would HAVE to be found by private searchers (ones with cameras awesome).

As I was watching it the searchers notions of being scared to death just , seemed like an act to me.. Would you really beleive that some murderer is hiding in the victims car ? And going to jump out and murder you, with tons of LE around? What nonsense IMO

But anyone with a noodle upstaris(!) would have to conclude the speed at which the car was located was nothing other than remarkable. Gosh the only one with a camera. As I watched the doc, I thought theire searching patterns was very atypical.

If someone is trying to hide something, in THAT lot I would not "hide" it on the outer perimeter of the messy place, I would go more into the mess. Locating the car was vital cause it allowed for the search warrents to be implemented (probable cause) - so it was , lets say to get the ball rolling, urgent that vehicle was located .hummmmmmmm
Remember God told her where to look

. The brother ,
And had bad vibes about him in general (Theresa). He was just instantly convneced that it was Avery- if it were my sister I would kinda want LE to do some looking around - casue what if in 10 months the one they only focused on was excluded - 10 months later - cold trail etc . He always made himself available to media
I disagree about the brother - I thought he seemed like a standup guy. He was the oldest son annd obviously felt very protective of his little sister as we would expect a good brother to do. I suspect he was fed a lot of information from LE about SA's background and lots of rumors and gossip that helped convince him that this was their guy
Anyone ever see anything that would resemeble affect about his sister being chopped up? Emotionially he was vacant.

I would be questioning why are you guys only looking at Avery especially since you already , in this very town, did that - wrongly. Bells would be ringing.

Brendons stepdad yucky as well he sure seemed to support that Avery did it - which keeps his step son totally involved ?

Bon fires DO NOT result in human bones looking chopped up - charred yes but to smitherians does not happen.
I don't know but it would seem to me that he would have a better option to use the smelter to burn her than the fire pit in the backyard - yep - just sitting around the campfire watching someone burn
What was the video of Teresa at the end with all this love stuff -- it stuck me as peculiar - to have someone recording her telling the camera she LOVES everyone everything etc etc - relevence?
No one seems to know - sounds to me like a class project of some kind - I think it was used in the penalty phase in order to provide her with a voice
Guys go look at the pics of the key. Before and after --
Not sure what you mean about the before and after photos of the key
 
It all does matter. What it boils down to is that if LE had done what they told the press and everyone they were going to do, which is stay away from this investigation because of conflict of interest, then there would not be these question's today. LE chose for Lenk and Colburn to be all over that crime scene "conveniently" finding key evidence and acting shady (Colburn calling in the plates 2 days before the car was found) so it is not surprising that people are coming away from this seeing police misconduct. The sad part is if SA is guilty and manages to be freed (a very good possibility now as he is being represented by Katherine Zellner), then there is no one to be blame but LE and officials because of their tunnel-vision once again.

I don't think the TRUTH (which is NOT what the prosecution says it is) will ever be known, unfortunately, because LE messed up so much in this case. This makes me feel heart-broken for the Halbach family, in that they probably will never know what actually happened to their daughter. :(

For me all that I see is a guilty man and a whole defense team trying to do anything to get people to believe different.
 
....And then sprinkling various parts of the burnt body in other parts of the property and the nearby quarry?

My take on this is it was another mistake by cops. There is no reason for a murderer trying to cover his/her tracks dragging a body around a place that can be entered by anyone at anytime from multiple entry points.

The way the car was hidden was a joke as well -- leaving a tire case that has RAV4 screaming at a passerby is pretty silly.

My conclusion is that cops did all this stuff at night time with flashlights. The blood in the car does not look anything like what one would leave behind, after chopping raping lugging shooting up a person, this calm little hortizontal line of blood, that is barely smeared. I would think after all the above mentioned activity, one would be sweaty, shakey, exhausted, with high blood pressure, rushed, scared and frantic. A nicely organized line of blood just dont fit. Ha If it dont fit aquit.
 
What bugs me is that his defense team is not only thinking the police did this, The sheriff's office but believe the FBI is also part of the conspiracy..

IT just goes too far.
 
Not sure what you mean about the before and after photos of the key


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298333-The-Key-Planted-or-Not-Impact/page9
There are pictures here that others and I have posted of the searches they had done in that trailer. The little open faced shelf that the key was found next to was said to have fallen out while Colborn twisted and turned the open faced shelf. Lenk's report states he shook the books inside and dis lodged this key from a miracle hiding space several other searches did not reveal in this open faced shelf. Two different accounts of how the key landed where it did. However if you look at the several days of searches by pictures of this very same open faced shelf you will see that the twisting and turning they want you to believe they did is shown very clearly that the open faced shelf was not even moved at all. Papers on the top still in its location from the first days search. The phone too. You see the things that did change through the investigators taking everything out and putting it back in a way that was different from the last. But they did not shake twist and pull it from its spot to make that magically cleaned of TH DNA key, magically appear on the floor by his DNA infested slippers and only have his DNA on them.
 
AC calling in the plates is a major twist, if they can pull phone records around that time to see who was talking to who?

What time did her mom call in to report her missing?

What time did Weigart call Colborn? (according to his testimony)

What time did Colborn call the dispatch?
 
What bugs me is that his defense team is not only thinking the police did this, The sheriff's office but believe the FBI is also part of the conspiracy..

IT just goes too far.

Funny you should mention. That particular FBI crime lab was the target of investigation (in years past, mind you) for falsifying evidence.

I kid you not. I'll see if I can find a link to the article.

Links:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/20/hair-a20.html?view=article_mobile
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
 
So give me another suspect who knew Teresa was going there, Killed her there, and then hid her car and burned her in the pit?
 
I don't know where to fall on this side of the argument.

I worked with Criminals for a year during University here in the UK (trainee Solicitor) and I've believed them until it has come down to the week before trial and video evidence has been dumped on my desk. It's a bitter pill to swallow.

However, what unnerves me the most about the documentary is the behaviour of the people in it. There is so much focus on the actions of people like Colborn, Kratz, the Dassey family and Mike Halbach but the behaviour in public really gets me is Steven Averys.

Whenever I watch the press interviews he gives (the one in particular that I think of is next to the red van that Teresa photographed just after she disappeared) I watch his face. He stares straight on at the interviewer like he is trying hard not to show any facial expression. To me, at least, his eyes seem wide as if he is trying very hard not to blink (it was considered for years that constant blinking is a way to tell a liar, whatever truth there is to this I don't actually know but I still hear it here in the UK). Most people I know would know what facial expressions supposedly make you look a liar, it seems to me as if he has 'trained' himself to try and not make any expression. I find that very suspect in itself when I watch it back.
 
it's the investigators own fault they should have stayed away. They dug their own graves there. They shouldn't have even been there. This is a shame on our justice system innocence or guilt set aside he wasn't given a fair trial. Sad resident of Wisconsin.
 
What bugs me is that his defense team is not only thinking the police did this, The sheriff's office but believe the FBI is also part of the conspiracy..

IT just goes too far.


You clearly hear both Strang and Buting say they are not convinced that Steve Avery is innocent.

They are defense lawyers. Their job is to defend their client. It's also quite clear that there is reason for suspicion, and ONLY LE is to blame for that suspicion existing. Had they truly removed themselves from this investigation and the same evidence was found, this case would change dramatically.

Is what LE did in the rape conviction relevant ? sure it is. Who is going to want to be investigated by the same guys that willfully ignored evidence of their innocence in a previous case ?

Nothing but common sense here. Lawyers doing what they do, given what they have to work with.

LE only has themselves to blame for all this. Going a step further, I think some of them belong in jail and what happened in that rape case just shows that there is a lack of accountability in the system.

Kachinsky should be in jail as well.
 
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