Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[JudyBolton]

But once it gets to the lab, when they are done with it, they put evidence tape on it again, don't they? I know Culhane testified to their procedures.... and then the "evidence" is signed for by the officer that takes it from the lab.

I didn't see any evidence that the prosecution gave to explain why the evidence tape was cut, and why it was scotch taped back up. Maybe I just haven't read it yet.

as for the tape on the vial.... I did a quick google search last night... I see what he was talking about BUTTTTTTT I didn't see or didn't hear that it was the procedure at the crime lab in this case.

It makes no sense to me that there are so many steps taken to ensure the chain of custody - having to initial tape, etc. Then, once it's in the Sheriff's office it can be opened by anyone and scotch taped back together and it's no big deal???

 

[missy1974]

Respectfully snipped by me

Or why there was blood on the passengers side of the car at all? especially in the metal frame around the rear passengers door?
Was just working on a new picture. Will probably post it in the blood stains thread or one of those. Three pictures of 3 of the 6 places His blood was found. Sometimes I just don't know where to post things.

GMTA I have been looking at those photo's and trying to make sense of "why" they would be where they are. The smeared on CD case stumps me, if he was driving, dripped blood, smeared it.... even if wearing gloves, why is there no other blood found, ex: steering wheel/hood release, even the key had very little dna, if it was smeared on the cd case/glove, I would have expected more.

To me, it just helps point to the blood being planted. Only needed to go through the passenger doors to do this. No need to open a driver's side door or back door. The way the hood/board was leaning against the passenger side of the car (providing it wasn't put there after planting and not before) would have made it easy access. The drivers side, not so much with it being beside the other car (didn't Nicole have a hard time "getting in there" to read the VIN?) I think the hood could have easily been slid out of the way if it was already there (remember there was a scratch behind that hood).

 

[Justiceseeker35]

NO PICTURES of the bones in the fire pit is what gets me. On top of that, how many of those bones were actually found outside of the actual pit? and where?

Well according to BD's confession, SA was supposed to be burning the bones and keep finding stuff to pile on top of them and stirring it like one big pot. Then he was going to keep filling it up and cover it with dirt. So in that idea her bones should have been laying down deep under it all. The bones wouldn't be gently arranged on top just so.

 

[angelainwi]

Some of Zellner's tweets mysteriously vanished. One of them being the Kratz letter sent to Avery about confessing to make a book.

 

[MysticJynx]

GMTA I have been looking at those photo's and trying to make sense of "why" they would be where they are. The smeared on CD case stumps me, if he was driving, dripped blood, smeared it.... even if wearing gloves, why is there no other blood found, ex: steering wheel/hood release, even the key had very little dna, if it was smeared on the cd case/glove, I would have expected more.

To me, it just helps point to the blood being planted. Only needed to go through the passenger doors to do this. No need to open a driver's side door or back door. The way the hood/board was leaning against the passenger side of the car (providing it wasn't put there after planting and not before) would have made it easy access. The drivers side, not so much with it being beside the other car (didn't Nicole have a hard time "getting in there" to read the VIN?) I think the hood could have easily been slid out of the way if it was already there (remember there was a scratch behind that hood).

Bigger picture of the CD case

 

[diesel]

I wonder what new forensic evidence KZ has?

She stated forensic has advanced since 2005-2007.

She even bought the exact same RAV4 as TH. ! I think it may have to do with the fact his fingerprints were nowhere to found. Also, "transfer" DNA on the latch could be something else.

I asked this question here last night wondering if EDTA could now be found in blood. And usually forensic evidence covers blood or DNA or ballistics......I certainly don't know what new advances have been made since 2005-2007. Ten years is a long time.

Any more ideas at what she could be hinting?

 

[diesel]

GMTA I have been looking at those photo's and trying to make sense of "why" they would be where they are. The smeared on CD case stumps me, if he was driving, dripped blood, smeared it.... even if wearing gloves, why is there no other blood found, ex: steering wheel/hood release, even the key had very little dna, if it was smeared on the cd case/glove, I would have expected more.

To me, it just helps point to the blood being planted. Only needed to go through the passenger doors to do this. No need to open a driver's side door or back door. The way the hood/board was leaning against the passenger side of the car (providing it wasn't put there after planting and not before) would have made it easy access. The drivers side, not so much with it being beside the other car (didn't Nicole have a hard time "getting in there" to read the VIN?) I think the hood could have easily been slid out of the way if it was already there (remember there was a scratch behind that hood).

BBM. The gear shift?

 

[missy1974]

I asked this question here last night wondering if EDTA could now be found in blood. And usually forensic evidence covers blood or DNA or ballistics......I certainly don't know what new advances have been made since 2005-2007. Ten years is a long time.

Any more ideas at what she could be hinting?

It could be as simple as testing area's of the RAV4 that were never tested, or retesting. I remember reading that there were fingerprints never matched up, maybe just running those now 8 years later might show someone in the system now that wasn't in 2005-2007.

 

[Sinsaint]

TH's camera was found burned in SA's burn barrel, along with TH's purse, PDA, and cell phone.

Great! Then they found the keychain with her house key, business key, other keys? No? Hmmm, wonder where those are considering they wouldn't just melt away.

 

[missy1974]

Wait.... I don't know that her purse was found, where do we know that from?

 

[missy1974]

I'm not sure how or who deleted Zellner's tweets... but she is going on a bit of a rampage, seems she is posting articles she can find LOL


Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 21m21 minutes ago
So If the truth hurts, just delete it. #MakingAMurderer http://wncy.com/news/articles/2016/...-prosecution-to-twitter/#.Vq1GrVXHxoI.twitter …

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 24m24 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Stephen Avery's new lawyer is destroying the case against him on Twitter http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...oys-prosecution-case-on-twitter-a6829741.html …

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 25m25 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery’s New Lawyer Defends His Innocence on Twitter: He Was ‘Framed’ http://usm.ag/1nrJB7T via UsWeekly

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 25m25 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery's New Lawyer Is Already Dismantling The Case Against Him On Twitter http://uproxx.it/1NnMwD3

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 26m26 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery's lawyer has destroyed the prosecution's case on Twitter http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/making-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-7236406#ICID=sharebar_twitter …

Kathleen Zellner Retweeted
Kent Riley ‏@Kentriley 2h2 hours ago
@ZellnerLaw I noticed they had disappeared (like all TH DNA from the crime SCENES ! Eg bedroom and garage ��loving your work ��������

 

[Jacki1971]

Has anyone seen the info that Sherry Coltrane, the lab tech in the Halbach case, was suspended for being drunk on the job? This apparently happened during the relevant time period of the Avery testing.

There is an article I found by googling it, but I am not sure about the rules on posting links.

 

[Amber29]

Because the only IMPORTANT evidence was the KEY you just ask Sgt AC. The bones they were not important, sadly. They could not take pictures of the bones in the pit because they were spread out by the debris on the side of the pit. The one planting the bones goofed. That is why they didnt call the coroner. They knew it. I'm suspecting that if they moved her bone in the burn barrel that while they were carrying it from the south to the pit a bone fell out. just like at the quarry when they went to move the barrel a few bones fell out. There are holes at the bottom of the barrel to feed oxygen to the fire. If they were say rolling the barrel on its bottom axis sort of on an angle this would give opportunity for that bone to fall out 8ft out of the debris.

It actually was testified that there were heavy rains in some of those days and that could've been how the bones were moved around in the pit. The same person testified that pictures of the bones in the pit wouldn't have even been good. She explained it as due to the discoloration, pictures wouldn't have been clear. In fact some pieces that weren't even bones were brought into her. The fragments didn't look like bones.

Seems this entire post is an opinion because I haven't seen it said anywhere that the bones weren't important evidence. Who exactly is "they" in reference to why they didn't call the coroner, because they knew they had goofed when planting???
Are we now accusing all the investigators of being in on the planting as well?
This is getting absurd.

 

[GigiG]

I'm not sure how or who deleted Zellner's tweets... but she is going on a bit of a rampage, seems she is posting articles she can find LOL


Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 21m21 minutes ago
So If the truth hurts, just delete it. #MakingAMurderer http://wncy.com/news/articles/2016/...-prosecution-to-twitter/#.Vq1GrVXHxoI.twitter …

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 24m24 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Stephen Avery's new lawyer is destroying the case against him on Twitter http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...oys-prosecution-case-on-twitter-a6829741.html …

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 25m25 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery’s New Lawyer Defends His Innocence on Twitter: He Was ‘Framed’ http://usm.ag/1nrJB7T via UsWeekly

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 25m25 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery's New Lawyer Is Already Dismantling The Case Against Him On Twitter http://uproxx.it/1NnMwD3

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 26m26 minutes ago
#MakingAMurderer Steven Avery's lawyer has destroyed the prosecution's case on Twitter http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/making-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-7236406#ICID=sharebar_twitter …

Kathleen Zellner Retweeted
Kent Riley ‏@Kentriley 2h2 hours ago
@ZellnerLaw I noticed they had disappeared (like all TH DNA from the crime SCENES ! Eg bedroom and garage ��loving your work ��������

-------------------------


I don't use twitter much, I mostly just read there. But I don't think you can delete someone else's posts, so I'm trying to figure out the real story about what's going on here...

Deleting a Tweet
Did you Tweet something and then change your mind? Don't worry! It's easy to delete one of your Tweets. Please note that you can only delete Tweets that you have made, you cannot delete other users' Tweets from your timeline.

https://support.twitter.com/articles/18906?lang=en

----------------------------

Ken Kratz' (01/2011) twitter account is "protected" (you have to be a follower, and I'm not gonna go there).

https://twitter.com/ken723ken

------------------------------

There is also an account for Kenneth Kratz (03/2011). here's the profile, (which I find to be both sickening and hilarious at the same time):

Kenneth Kratz
@KennethKratz
64' athletes body, recently-single, scholar. I was a district attorney in Wisconsin but wanted 2 spend more time doing the things I luv. Some call me a dreamer

https://twitter.com/kennethkratz

--------------------------------

There are also fake Ken Kratz parody twitter accounts. Good for a laugh. Or a cry.

 

[missy1974]

Has anyone seen the info that Sherry Coltrane, the lab tech in the Halbach case, was suspended for being drunk on the job? This apparently happened during the relevant time period of the Avery testing.

There is an article I found by googling it, but I am not sure about the rules on posting links.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/pr...cle_5e461ea6-ca3d-5429-81cd-81e6c0cce9e3.html

I don't think a name was released. But yes, there is a report about someone being drunk on the job while evidence in this case was in the lab.

 

[Sinsaint]

Yes it is.. I am not going to get into the most cops are bad thing because it is not true. There are some bad apples but I am tired of people blaming Cops when they don't like the outcome..

The odds of a murder happening on his property that he has nothing to do with are astronomical. The fact that he knew her called her, His blood is in her car, which is found on his property and that her bones are found burned on his property is too much. Any other case people would know he was guilty.

He is playing the poor me I am innocent card and it makes me sick..

There are plenty of cases out there where cops planted evidence. Some high profile, some still on appeal. To ignore that very obvious reality is like sticking your head in sand. It doesn't go away simply because you ignore it or fail to acknowledge it.

 

[Sinsaint]

I'm open to hearing evidence. If there's evidence to show planting (not merely imagining it could happen), then I support a retrial and SA being released. Or if there was legal error, ditto.

Elaborate or fantasy scenarios in which one or more people are out there somehow taking TH's body and burning it and planting it on the Avery Salvage Yard, and planting blood and keys and TH's items, isn't believable and certainly not without proof. To me that's desperation and a ploy to make SA a martyr at the cost of rationality. I can't just go by 'feelings' in criminal cases. I don't have any particular feelings, gut or otherwise, about the crime or the people involved. There's either evidence or there isn't. If there's enough circumstantial evidence in totality to go beyond mere coincidence ("oh really that could happen to anyone, Avery was just unlucky") that's the line that once crossed takes me to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

If there were evidence he wouldn't be in prison. Oh, I take that back... Even when judges know you've been framed you still sit in prison. It's nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[MysticJynx]

It actually was testified that there were heavy rains in some of those days and that could've been how the bones were moved around in the pit. The same person testified that pictures of the bones in the pit wouldn't have even been good. She explained it as due to the discoloration, pictures wouldn't have been clear. In fact some pieces that weren't even bones were brought into her. The fragments didn't look like bones.

Seems this entire post is an opinion because I haven't seen it said anywhere that the bones weren't important evidence. Who exactly is "they" in reference to why they didn't call the coroner, because they knew they had goofed when planting???
Are we now accusing all the investigators of being in on the planting as well?
This is getting absurd.

NO they testified that the KEY was Important evidence and they all stopped looked at each other and took picture of the key and handled it with care. However TH's body was very important evidence in yes IMO. she was the most important evidence. So why did they not call in the coroner. Who ever THEY are that were investigating this. THEY had 200 people searching that yard. and yet they kept the coroner off the case. And two of the officers who were recently deposed in the law suit the very conflict of interest on the property for days. They are spouting to the public through news media that MCSD knew it was a conflict of interest. Removing themselves was only a statement from them to the public, A LIE! Allowing the coroner to do her job would have been good for this case. She wanted to be involved after all it was her job. Why did THEY the investigators deviate from so many protocols, Couldnt be because they recused themselves. So why? what were they hiding? THEY THE INVESTIGATORS ON THIS CASE. I don't think everyone involved in the searching all 200 were involved in the planting. Heck I think some of them were overcome with the fake evidence that they turned a blind eye to protocol when it looked like things didnt add up.
I was looking into the rain fall for that week cause of the mud on her car. But I don't remember heavy storms that week. Oct 31, 2005=0.03in, Nov 5 2005=0.30in, Nov 6, 2005=0.25in, Nov 12 2005=0.09in. This is 2/3's of an inch of rain in 2 weeks. This does not seem like heavy storms to me. but all I write is more or less my opinion. Just thoughts and theories.

However the little bit of rain they did have gave them, the investigators opportunity to TARP the car. or in other words conceal it from aerial view. Could have easily planted evidence under that tent. Shrugs. again JMO

Also if you look at the picture of the Tire belt that wasn't even in the burn pit you see DRY leaves around it and a non-burnt screwdriver, where she was burnt supposedly. This debris was not in the pit before they even removed the dog.

 

[missy1974]

https://imgur.com/a/5zh2Z

an interesting comparison. The one's in the top photo are from a case where the ex-husband cremated his ex-wife after hours at work.

After some googling, I was able to find the case.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1990295246Kan49_1291/STATE v. PIOLETTI

 

[Sinsaint]

If you are wiping it down you are worried about where your hands touched. The fact that the cut would have been on the top of his gloves and he grabbed the keys as he was leaving the car accounts completely for him leaving the smudge thinking the car was clear.

You're also worried about wiping away all that RED stuff that is sticking out like a sore thumb. Sure, wipe away all the invisible stuff like DNA, fingerprints, trace fibers, hair, etc. but leave behind all the blood that practically sticks out like a neon sign? Ummm, right.