Netherlands Netherlands - Schiedam, WhtFem, 16-24, 5'3'', 12 Oct 2005

[Bit of hope]

The style is very similar if you look at pictures of their products, and eastern Europe is one of their main markets...
ETA link
Company Introduction about Shantou Guangwei Knitting Co., Ltd. on China Suppliers Mobile

Thanks whatsnext, good sleuthing. FWIW The company was established in 2004.

 

[worldwatcher]

The broadcast of "Opsporing Verzocht" looked promising, but wasn't breaking news…
It only, gave a small update, about the tips, that were recieved.Some tips, had possible names for this unfortunate young woman and they hoped to recieve more tips...

 

[dotr]

The uid female not having pierced ears points away from her coming from Eastern Europe where it seems to be a prevalent custom.
Could this be a female from a middle class, Protestant family from Britain, Canada or the US?
imo, speculation.
Why, and How, We Still Pierce Our Ears
"A decade or two ago the pierced earlobe was the mark of the foreign born or first-generation Americans of either Latin or Eastern European descent."

 

[Bit of hope]

The uid female not having pierced ears points away from her coming from Eastern Europe where it seems to be a prevalent custom.
Could this be a female from a middle class, Protestant family from Britain, Canada or the US?
imo, speculation.
Why, and How, We Still Pierce Our Ears
"A decade or two ago the pierced earlobe was the mark of the foreign born or first-generation Americans of either Latin or Eastern European descent."

That's something to think about Dotr. My mother had pierced ears, I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears until my 18th birthday (so I would have a choice) and I was brought up without God.

 

[Bit of hope]

I don't know Dotr.....

Protestantism is the fastest growing religion in Bulgaria. Within less than twenty years, the number of Protestants almost tripled. In the census of 1992, 21,878 people applied as Protestants. That number doubled to 42,308 in the 2001 census and then that number grew further to 64,476 in the 2011 census. The growth of Protestantism is mainly due to the massive conversion of Roma to the Pentecostal movement, also called the 'gypsy churches' called. Today, about 1.1% of the population is a member of one of the various Protestant denominations. The Protestants live throughout the country. Protestants consist of both ethnic Bulgarians and ethnic Roma.

Bulgarije - Wikipedia

 

[dotr]

I don't know Dotr.....

Protestantism is the fastest growing religion in Bulgaria. Within less than twenty years, the number of Protestants almost tripled. In the census of 1992, 21,878 people applied as Protestants. That number doubled to 42,308 in the 2001 census and then that number grew further to 64,476 in the 2011 census. The growth of Protestantism is mainly due to the massive conversion of Roma to the Pentecostal movement, also called the 'gypsy churches' called. Today, about 1.1% of the population is a member of one of the various Protestant denominations. The Protestants live throughout the country. Protestants consist of both ethnic Bulgarians and ethnic Roma.

Bulgarije - Wikipedia

Thanks, that is interesting information!
Probably should not have included the Protestant part in my post, religion does not really figure into this, it was just a way to suggest a" type ."

 

[Bit of hope]

Thanks, that is interesting information!
Probably should not have included the Protestant part in my post, religion does not really figure into this, it was just a way to suggest a" type ."

I did get that....I was just trying to find info that could support your line of thinking.

 

[LeenC]

The uid female not having pierced ears points away from her coming from Eastern Europe where it seems to be a prevalent custom.
Could this be a female from a middle class, Protestant family from Britain, Canada or the US?
imo, speculation.
Why, and How, We Still Pierce Our Ears
"A decade or two ago the pierced earlobe was the mark of the foreign born or first-generation Americans of either Latin or Eastern European descent."

Her appearance doesn’t strike me as British, Canadian or American. And the way she was dressed doesn’t really scream “middle class” to me. More like she belonged to the “lower layers of society”. The combination of clothes she was wearing, makes me think she got them from charity or a trift shop. I’m from Belgium so I assume a lot of the charity initiatives we have are the same as the ones in The Netherlands. There’s a lot of places where you can go buy second hand clothing for €0.50 a piece or less if you’re struggling financially. Her outfit looks like she didn’t have a lot of clothes to choose from and that she wasn’t in a position to be picky about it. The socks really aren’t that weird to me. You can find silly socks everywhere, especially in smaller sizes.

I would be interested to see the results if they ever decide to do isotope testing on her remains. Because I don’t think she was born/grew up in The Netherlands. I don’t think she went to school there either because surely her absence in class would have been noticed. Does anyone know if there has been any mention of future plans concerning isotope testing?

 

[andrea]

I wouldn't put too much focus on pierced/unpierced ears. Apart from it being tradition for some groups, it is very much individual in middle europe. I got mine pierced when I was in primary school, some classmates had them already from kindergarten age, others weren't allowed to do it until they were 14 or even 18. Some parents call it mutilation, others are in the "we always did it" camp. There is no consensus or pattern about it.

 

[dotr]

I wouldn't put too much focus on pierced/unpierced ears. Apart from it being tradition for some groups, it is very much individual in middle europe. I got mine pierced when I was in primary school, some classmates had them already from kindergarten age, others weren't allowed to do it until they were 14 or even 18. Some parents call it mutilation, others are in the "we always did it" camp. There is no consensus or pattern about it.

This is one of the reasons i love Ws, one can learn new things and gain insight from people all around the world!

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

I wouldn't put too much focus on pierced/unpierced ears. Apart from it being tradition for some groups, it is very much individual in middle europe. I got mine pierced when I was in primary school, some classmates had them already from kindergarten age, others weren't allowed to do it until they were 14 or even 18. Some parents call it mutilation, others are in the "we always did it" camp. There is no consensus or pattern about it.

THIS.
I think this applies to most of Europe, and most of the time, religion has little to nothing to do with it, tbh. It's mostly comes down to how strict your parents were! Not that actually is a correct answer either; my mother was quite strict, and yet I had 12+ piercings in my ears and nose combined by the time I was done with elementary school... So, no, I wouldn't be too hung up on the pierced/unpierced ears detail, either. It really doesn't tell us much.

 

[Bit of hope]

Her appearance doesn’t strike me as British, Canadian or American. And the way she was dressed doesn’t really scream “middle class” to me. More like she belonged to the “lower layers of society”. The combination of clothes she was wearing, makes me think she got them from charity or a trift shop. I’m from Belgium so I assume a lot of the charity initiatives we have are the same as the ones in The Netherlands. There’s a lot of places where you can go buy second hand clothing for €0.50 a piece or less if you’re struggling financially. Her outfit looks like she didn’t have a lot of clothes to choose from and that she wasn’t in a position to be picky about it. The socks really aren’t that weird to me. You can find silly socks everywhere, especially in smaller sizes.

I would be interested to see the results if they ever decide to do isotope testing on her remains. Because I don’t think she was born/grew up in The Netherlands. I don’t think she went to school there either because surely her absence in class would have been noticed. Does anyone know if there has been any mention of future plans concerning isotope testing?

In the newest broadcast "Opsporing verzocht" they talk about the fact that they have isotopes but that it didn't bring any new leads. They don't talk about it more specific.

 

[dotr]

In the newest broadcast "Opsporing verzocht" they talk about the fact that they have isotopes but that it didn't bring any new leads. They don't talk about it more specific.

Did the isotopes not bring new leads because they show the uid as being local, or they simply do not want to share what the isotopes revealed, or the testing did not reveal anything at all?

 

[whatsnext]

I was wondering about this as well, does that mean that the test maybe failed somehow? You guys have so much more knowledge about this ...
Because, after all this time, would it be wise to hold back information unless they had suspects or at least a promising lead ?

 

[Bit of hope]

They say: they took isotopes but that didn't lead to the identity of the girl. Nothing more.
Maybe it gave them some hints where she could come from. Because of her dental care they don't think she was from the Netherlands. The London woman who did the newest reconstruction says; We used some additional information about what we know about this individual. I don't know what that means. Could this have something to do with what was concluded from the isotopes? I know isotopes in Europe are much less precise, like in for instance America, but I know other UID cases in The Netherlands where the isotopes tell that a girl came from the IJfel territory in Germany, or in an other case that somebody had lived in Eastern Europe before living in Belgium. So it's possible they can get some general knowledge but eventually not strong enough for a realistic search pattern. Eastern Europe is big and most of this country's don't have an advanced missing person system like in the west and I think less LE inter-connections. Besides that, if your girl has been trafficked for instance, maybe parents are reluctant to file a missing persons report because they are afraid of repercussions. Just speculation. I think they know a little more, but don't want to publish that at this point in time for some reason, but off course I don't know that for sure.

 

[Al Ka]

I think the label could be Lại Sĩ Hoa, what is Vietnamese.

I can confirm that Eastern European street markets are flooded with Vietnamese cloths. While some are imported majority are made in each given country by Vietnamese communities. They do have quite a presence there for many decades. Not sure of back story (why) but that is different topic.

Red tshirt with label Lai Si Hoa, was very likely purchased on such a street market. Most importantly it seems some words apart of English ones on that shirt are from that country, so it was made there and not imported.

I tried to unscramble writing/words as it does seem as Southern East European (Romania, Bulgaria) word (most notably syllabels at the end of the word) but unfortunately all photos of that shirt I found so far are too small or too blurry. If better quality of it is shown in any of the videos it would be brilliant if someone can take screen shot and post it here.

Yes, input from someone from Romania or Bulgaria would be great here. We can give a shout to people at WS thread about Bulgarian journalist.

We have to remember that in 2005 Holland was still closed for Eastern European workers. She was likely undocumented but that fortunately is not that big obstacle in identifying her as it would be for example for undocumented Mexican in USA.

While dress sense might seems strange to American or UK fashion sense people I would consider it quite "normal" in Holland or Germany.

That she wore sport underwear with matching colour sweat pants I would not be suprised she considered it quite stylish. I could easily see her excercising in that and that top bra on.

From bedsheets we can deduct that crime definitely did not happen in hotel or motel but rather someone's home. It could be either family or I am more inclined - someone who definitely knew her at least few days.

That only 100 suitcases were made is very interesting and quite a big lead. I personally still can't fathom how she would fit in suitcase not just with sheets but 2 big duvets. Which brings to mind, did they mention anywhere her couse of death? It was stated as homicide but I don't remember if it was ever specified as being shot, stabbed, dismembered etc...

Still need to look at orange cloth/sheet as it is a bit unusual. Also not sure that it really was cloth/sheet but rather something else in the house (table cloth? curtain?).

 

[Al Ka]

And the writing on her red shirt victoryi...makes me think of east European or Russian made, at least another country made shirt...wrongly spelled...or Chinese....

I am just rereading whole thread. I can assure you that word Victoryi on shirt is Not misspelled even though it does look unusual. This is how it is translated into English from languages where Cyrillic alphabet writing is used. It would be Ukraine and most of Russia, Ex Yugoslavia but also Bulgaria.

Not Romania, but I think they are using words too with that -yi at the end of the words (not too sure).

Ok, found much better info here:
What countries use the Cyrillic alphabet?

Cyrillic alphabets. Among others, Cyrillic is the standard script for writing the following languages:
Slavic languages: Belarusian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Russian, Rusyn, Serbo-Croatian (for Standard Serbian, Bosnian, and Montenegrin), Ukrainian.

Non-Slavic languages: Abkhaz, Aleut (now mostly in church texts), Bashkir, Chuvash, Erzya, Kazakh (to be replaced by Latin script by 2025[19]), Kildin Sami, Komi, Kyrgyz, Dungan, Mari, Moksha, Mongolian, Ossetic, Romani (some dialects), Sakha/Yakut, Tajik, Tatar, Tlingit (now only in church texts), Tuvan, Udmurt, Yuit (Siberian Yupik), and Yupik (in Alaska).

Cyrillic script - Wikipedia

Just to add: Interestingly I did not think of Ex Yugoslavia with relation to this case before, but it should be definitely considered. Much bigger immigration from there to Holland due to war in '95 with comparison to very rare Bulgarian arrivals. But neither can be excluded yet.

 

[Al Ka]

I have watched the video and unfortunately I could not hear everything. (Love and miss subtitles). But it is mentioned there that Cause of Death is on purpose NOT released by police ...

Jane Doe lower jaw - we had discussions here previously about strange strong jaw and speculating that it was done in sketch that way due to bloating obstracting her real features. Lady on video from Liverpool Face Lab actually did confirm Jane Doe had very strongly shaped jaw. So no more dispute on that. (Interestingly the same lady did recently new reconstruction for John Doe found in 1971 in Brent on Trent UK)

Back to the jaw -

When we look at touch up post mortem on the left, no such a strong jaw is visible as everywhere else is portrait. Sketch on the right has clearly very different jaw shape. I do strongly wonder now if one of her probably many injuries was to lower part of the face and therefore original was heavily photoshoped in that part.

Location - police in video mentioned very unusual location. Small canaal between appartment blocks. Canaal which has no stream and does not float anywhere. Place where anyone from those flats could see you dumping suitcase there, but also probably place where perp could see too. I could just bet that crime scene happened at one of those near appartments. Whoever dumped it there was not too rational at that moment as too risky and too close to home... But, they would probably see When she was found too.

Bedsheets:

Bedsheets came from household were definitely woman was present which is a bit upsetting if female was involved. Especially those sheets on the left.

We can't rule out that if Jane Doe was around 20 that she could have been already someone's wife and this could have been from her own household. Other option is she was visiting some household where there was other woman. Family can't be excluded.

 

[Bit of hope]

I can confirm that Eastern European street markets are flooded with Vietnamese cloths. While some are imported majority are made in each given country by Vietnamese communities. They do have quite a presence there for many decades. Not sure of back story (why) but that is different topic.

Red tshirt with label Lai Si Hoa, was very likely purchased on such a street market. Most importantly it seems some words apart of English ones on that shirt are from that country, so it was made there and not imported.

I tried to unscramble writing/words as it does seem as Southern East European (Romania, Bulgaria) word (most notably syllabels at the end of the word) but unfortunately all photos of that shirt I found so far are too small or too blurry. If better quality of it is shown in any of the videos it would be brilliant if someone can take screen shot and post it here.

Yes, input from someone from Romania or Bulgaria would be great here. We can give a shout to people at WS thread about Bulgarian journalist.

We have to remember that in 2005 Holland was still closed for Eastern European workers. She was likely undocumented but that fortunately is not that big obstacle in identifying her as it would be for example for undocumented Mexican in USA.

While dress sense might seems strange to American or UK fashion sense people I would consider it quite "normal" in Holland or Germany.

That she wore sport underwear with matching colour sweat pants I would not be suprised she considered it quite stylish. I could easily see her excercising in that and that top bra on.

From bedsheets we can deduct that crime definitely did not happen in hotel or motel but rather someone's home. It could be either family or I am more inclined - someone who definitely knew her at least few days.

That only 100 suitcases were made is very interesting and quite a big lead. I personally still can't fathom how she would fit in suitcase not just with sheets but 2 big duvets. Which brings to mind, did they mention anywhere her couse of death? It was stated as homicide but I don't remember if it was ever specified as being shot, stabbed, dismembered etc...

Still need to look at orange cloth/sheet as it is a bit unusual. Also not sure that it really was cloth/sheet but rather something else in the house (table cloth? curtain?).

She was not in the suitcase with duvets, only with 2 duvet-c0vers and this orange sheet. I reminds me of a bed sheet from the 70's and if you ask me not a color or pattern what a Dutch family would have used in 2005, also not as a table cloth, because it would have been totally out of fashion.

 

[Bit of hope]

Update from the Opsporing Verzocht site on 30-10-2018. Schiedam - Reconstructie gezicht in cold case vermoorde vrouw

Update There have been more than 65 tips since the broadcast, including the origin of the victim, her clothing and the linen. But there are also possible names mentioned! The detective is working on it.