New Leads in Hailey Dunn Case

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katydid23 said:
My problem with Billie's version of the dog scent scenario is that it does not fit with what LE said about it. They said distinctly that the dogs DID NOT follow a scent trail from the home to the motel.

But Billie said they did follow a scent trail, and she describes a very specific trail, ---' goes towards dads' house, stops turns around, goes to the friends house, then to the motel...'

But LE NEVER said anything like that. If that had been true, then they would have done extensive interrogation and investigation of the friend and the people in her home etc. But that never happened.
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She would be recounting what she was told, together with the "telephone" effect distorting facts. In situations like this she would not have been dealing directly with the dog handlers, the information would have been passed through a number of LE before it arrived at her. A case in point demonstrating this: During the Jaycee Dugard case searches they did an exhaustive search of Garrido's property, including searches with dogs. Initially the LE spokesperson was claiming that the dogs had hits on human remains, then a few days later they retracted it. It turned out that the dog handlers had claimed nothing of the sort other than a maybe, but that message had been distorted as it passed through the the liason officer to a "for sure".

In this case we can't really be sure exactly what the dogs did or did not detect, because both the information provided by BD and the liason would have passed through multiple people before arriving the final version. So there may be distortions and inaccuracies in both cases.
 
Mod Note: Personal FB pages other than a victim's or a suspect's are off limits.
 
katydid23 said:
But it is more than just that. Shawn threatened Billie and her son and she called 911 because of it. Shawn had a lot of very twisted, obsessive fixations on serial killers and even collected handmade leather masks that he would wear, pretending to be a SK. That is more than just not being the 'nicest' parent, imo.

Also his hinky behavior that day. He told people he quit his job that morning and had no explanation for why, even they they had no $ and were in debt. And it was a good well paying job. And his description of what he did and where he went that day was shady and inconsistent.

Add to that, HD did not do what she normally would have, being home alone with a cell on a vacation day. She called none of her friends, texted none of her friends and that seems odd to me. There is only that one lone text that she supposedly sent. It does not ring true to me that if she had plans to sleep at her friends, that she would only send one short text that entire day. IMO, she would have sent texts to other friends and/or sent another to her friend that she had plans with. I just don't believe a 13 r old would sit home all alone without communicating with any one if she had that cell with her all day. JMO
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I hear ya, and tend to agree. I could wholeheartedly agree if I were more aware of HD's normal phone/texting patterns. The only reason I can't fully agree is my own DD, 12, who is atypical, in that she has a cell and is not a big phone talker or texter. Her friends will often call my phone on her days off from school, attemping to reach DD to shoot the breeze but DD has not heard her phone or not bothered to answer, being involved in a show, drawing or journaling.
 
Following on from earlier posts, I got interested in what exactly BD and co said at their earliest interviews, so I read the http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/04/ng.01.html (I think this is the first one she gave - it is about a week after HD went missing). Anyway, it would have been before the polygraphs and warrant affidavits, so it should give us the best idea of what the principals views at the time were.

1. What about the dogs?

This is the first mention we have of search dogs. This is what BD had to say:

GRACE: I want to go back to Billie Dunn. Billie, you`re Hailey`s mother, and tonight you are making a public plea for her return. What can you tell me about these bloodhounds? We are learning police have brought bloodhounds out to your home, and they went from your home to a local motel?

BILLIE DUNN: Yes. I kind of don`t know what to say now since I heard police were being tight-lipped about it, but I`ll go ahead and say they started toward her dad`s house. They didn`t go there. They stopped, turned around, went to her friend`s, went to that motel, where they told me they`re reviewing video surveillance. There was video surveillance there. But didn`t have much luck there.
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Keep in mind that earlier in the show NG spoke to a local radio person who said by and large the same thing. So it was not just BD saying this. Presumably she observed at least some of this if they started at her home, and the rest she would have been told by various LE. The alternate version subsequently put out by elements of LE doesn't make sense. If they had dogs why would they take them to specific locations, such as motels, but not more obvious places, such as the homes of CD and MB (places HD supposedly visited)? I am more inclined to believe BD over LE in this instance, because her version is logical whereas the other is not. The LE version came from Kampfer, who was the CC city manager at the time, not a member of the investigative team. There is no reason to believe him to be credible.

2. Why did SA leave work that day?

There has been lots of debate about this, most people are using the affidavit as the statement of fact. But, as I have pointed out, the affidavit does not detail what exactly SA claimed about that morning, it only details what his boss observed. So why? Let's look at what BD had to say on NG's show about this:

BILLIE DUNN: No, I said that. He went in Monday morning, but there was an argument. He was fired or there was just a big blow-up there. He walked out. He left his job by 6:30 in the morning and went to Big Spring (ph) to his mom`s house.

GRACE: OK. What was the blow-up about?

BILLIE DUNN: I don`t even know. I just know he didn`t get along with one or two of the co-workers.
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As you can see, she does not know the specifics of exactly what happened, as she says so. But what she does know is that he did not get along with some of his co-workers. In other words, the events leading up to him quitting did not occurr that morning, but long before that. And they did not involve the boss directly, it was a conflict with other people.

3. What about MB and how does she play into this?

A number of points here. BD says that she contacted MB and asked about what was going on that day, and MB denied knowing about anything, including texts and such. But, we know that there was a text. BD claims she did not speak to MB's mom. Later, the mom comes out and says that her daughter had no contact (which is contary to the text) and that HD was not there that day.

GRACE: Now have you -- have you spoken with Mary Beth? Did that in fact happen?

B. DUNN: I hadn`t asked her about that. I`m letting the police handle Mary Beth. I do call her to ask her hey, what did Hailey say to you on Monday, did she call you Monday, did you guys text, did she say she was going somewhere else Monday, or with another friend Monday, and she tells me no.

GRACE: Did she say she even saw Hailey on Monday?

B. DUNN: She hasn`t told me that she did. No.

GRACE: OK. So to your knowledge, Hailey never went to Mary Beth`s?

B. DUNN: Right. That`s what she says.
Click to expand...

There are three issues with this:
A) There is the text message, so there was at least some contact
B) The dogs (allegedly) followed a track to MB's house
C) There was a witness that (allegedly) observed HD, MB and an unknown boy in town that evening.

LE would have interviewed her for sure, but presumably she denied knowing anything, as she did to her mother and to BD.

4. Other odd stuff from the interview.

CD was also interviewed on this show. One odd thing I noted here:

GRACE: OK. Let`s back it up a little bit. Did you see her at all that day?

CLINT DUNN: I didn`t see her at all that day.

GRACE: When did you first learn she was missing?

CLINT DUNN: I seen her the day before. Later on that night, David came over -- my son came over and asked me...

BILLIE DUNN: Tuesday.

CLINT DUNN: ... or Tuesday, he came over asking me if I had seen her, if she`d came over that day. And I hadn`t.

GRACE: OK.

CLINT DUNN: So it was the next day.
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Not sure what to make of that, but it seems to be in the same ballpark of oddness as the GF first saying that HD as there that day, then changing her mind and saying that she was mistaken, it was another day. And the whole earring affair. You would think that with such an important event in their lives they would have the chronology in order without requiring correction.

5. The text message and did HD make it?

We know about the text message, and that it was sent at around 2PM. But, also in this NG show they talk to another reporter who says the following:

BOARD: This was about 3:00 o`clock on Monday, December 27th, that the boyfriend, from what we know, came home. That`s where he met with Hailey, at his home. Hailey at that time told the mother`s boyfriend that she was going from her mom`s house to her dad`s house, then her dad`s house to a friend`s house.

Now, earlier in that day, we had a neighbor confirm that she saw Hailey in the back yard speaking on some sort of a phone. We don`t know if that`s a home phone or a cell phone. They weren`t sure. That witness wasn`t sure at that time what Hailey was speaking on. But it was about 3:00 o`clock Monday, December 27th was the last time anybody saw Hailey alive.
Click to expand...

Note that this is not from BD, but independent of her version of events. No specific time of the observation was given. The witness also talks about her speaking, not texting, but I guess if you were not paying particular attention a person observed using a phone might be percieved as speaking.



So, I guess the question is, how would all of these things fit what this woman claims to have heard and seen at the crack house?
 
How much credence can we put into the story of someone who visits crackhouses??
We can't get distracted from the facts...the only thing I would want to know with relation to the crack house story would be - did any of Shauwn's former co-workers live in Odessa?The hinkiest part of this case is no one (Billie) checking on Hailey's whereabouts on Monday and Shawn quitting his job Tuesday. Makes me think something happened Monday at home.
 
Tugela said:
As you can see, she does not know the specifics of exactly what happened, as she says so. But what she does know is that he did not get along with some of his co-workers. In other words, the events leading up to him quitting did not occurr that morning, but long before that. And they did not involve the boss directly, it was a conflict with other people.
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Respectfully......BBM, I do not see how you come to the conclusion that the events leading up to him quitting happened long before that. If I recall correctly, SA walked out on his job that morning. He did not even tell BD anything that day. I think she found out from the police. He then told her that he got in an argument with his boss and he was fired. When BD says there was some big blow up, she is referring to that morning, because that is what SA led her to believe when she confronted him days after, when she found out. When the police went to interview his boss, his boss said he saw him that morning, they didn't speak, SA bought a DP and then apparently he just left soon after. His boss said he didn't fire him.
 
hollyblue said:
I don't believe if someone took her as collaterial for a drug debt...she would know it...nor would the family... till they were told or could figured it out. IMO. According to this woman, she was being drugged to make her more compliant. I just can't picture even a drug dealer telling their teen "hostage" why she is there and being held. If the possibility existed she was to be released upon payment of the debt...they chance her telling. Not that I'm buying into this woman's story ATM. IMO
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First of all, Hailey would not have had to be told anything, and neither would whoever owed them the debt. It's not like they're a bank or loan company and have to acknowledge that payment was received. Second, the being drugged to keep her compliant was so that she would not try to escape, and would be willing to have sex with as many johns as possible. That's how they get their money back. They were not planning to release her. They "bought" her, she belongs to them. If she brought them in ten times more money than was owed to them to start with, why should they care? It's not like they're a legitimate business.
 
fyi- Mac Sanford quit the case today, per his FB page

i will just leave it at that
 
Tugela said:
She made quite a few phone calls that day. The threat was allegedly against her and HD btw, not DD. But, she was POed about a dispute they had and it appears that what she was really concerned was the possibility of him removing property, not assaulting her. In any event there was no follow up, probably because it was just her allegation without any sort of corroboration. If there was corroboration LE would have arrested SA at a minimum, and there is no idication that anything like that happened.

SA did give a reason for quitting, he claimed it was due to a conflict of some sort with his boss. LE assumed that it was something that happened that morning, and the boss said nothing happened. But, if you look at the affidavit, LE does not say what SA specifically said. If he had claimed that the dispute was that morning, they would have reported that for sure because it would have been direct evidence of contradiction, but they did not. The police don't have to tell the full story on an affidavit, but they cannot lie. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that either they did not ask SA the details or they left his version out on purpose. So, we can conclude that the dispute with the boss was some incident that happened earlier, probably before the christmas break, and SA was just stewing in the mean time. The dispute may very well have been something trivial and unremarkable to the boss, but intolerable to SA. That sort of thing happens all the time in the work place, especially when you are dealing with unskilled labour. His account of what he did after he left work is reasonable and what you would expect under the circumstances, nothing odd there.

We have no idea what HD would have spent her time doing during the day. She may have had rules about use of the phone and when that was allowed. Eye witness accounts have her doing various things, such as using the phone and hanging out with friends. Keep in mind that if she was secretly up to something she wasn't supposed to be doing, besides not telling anyone about it, she also would also be paranoid about leaving evidence of it in the form of phone records. The phone was her mothers, not hers, so using it for that purpose would leave her vulnerable to discovery. For all she knew a phone call could come in from the wrong person at the wrong time and her mom could pick up. So, a lack of phone use is consistent with an alternative scenario.
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Re: "she made quite a few phone calls that day"

REALLY??..Would love to see some links to validate this.. Especially when the last time that Hailey Dunn has been seen alive or talked to by ANYONE OTHER THAN SHAWN ADKINS was an entire day prior, December 26, 2010 around 9:00pm by her brother, DD as he left the home while Hailey was in the living room playing Xbox.

Re: The threat made by Shawn Adkins on Billie and Hailey Dunn February 2010 not being "corroborated"..

This too I strongly disagree with especially when IMO it goes beyond being an "allegation" that lacks being "corroborated" when the accused, himself, Shawn Adkins fully admits to none other than LE that he did in fact threaten both Billie and Hailey Dunn in February 2010. IMO that leaves no question of whether its corroborated or just her word against his.. Clearly its not an unsubstantiated allegation when the accuser, himself admits to LE that he threatened both mom and daughter.
(*as noted by yourself LE cannot lie on an affidavit)

Re: Shawn Adkins abrubtly leaving/quitting his long term job only 10mins after arriving for his early morning shift on the day that Hailey goes "missing".. Further stating that regarding this entire issue "there's nothing odd there"..:waitasec:

As is stated in the above quoted post you say that Shawn Adkins did give a reason for why he abrubtly "quit" his job that morning(ie. An alleged conflict with his boss).. But the above quote goes on to state that actually according to the affidavit NOTHING is given, period as to what Shawn stated was his "reason" for "quitting" his job that morning.. Not to mention IMO what is most important is that actually Shawn did NOT only NOT give a reason to LE for why he abrubtly quit his long term job that morning, but fact is Shawn initially told LE he was fired/terminated from his job that morning before any of the he quit his job and why story was given by Shawn to LE..:waitasec:... Yes, just making the facts of this case, especially regarding Shawn Adkins all the more genuinely suspicious..

The suspicion is not just some over-hyped, contrived notion by some Websleuthers, but rather undeniable questionable acts and behaviors on the part of THE ONLY SUSPECT in Hailey's disappearance(and IMO murder), her mother's live-in boyfriend, Shawn Adkins.. Now does a murderer that make?.. No, not at all but it sure as Hell creates suspicion..
 
Put yourself on the case = get free publicity
Take yourself off the case = get even more free publicity
 
JBinPHX said:
Respectfully......BBM, I do not see how you come to the conclusion that the events leading up to him quitting happened long before that. If I recall correctly, SA walked out on his job that morning. He did not even tell BD anything that day. I think she found out from the police. He then told her that he got in an argument with his boss and he was fired. When BD says there was some big blow up, she is referring to that morning, because that is what SA led her to believe when she confronted him days after, when she found out. When the police went to interview his boss, his boss said he saw him that morning, they didn't speak, SA bought a DP and then apparently he just left soon after. His boss said he didn't fire him.
Click to expand...

The relevant quote was:

GRACE: OK. What was the blow-up about?

BILLIE DUNN: I don`t even know. I just know he didn`t get along with one or two of the co-workers.
Click to expand...

There are two parts to it. Firstly she talks about the "blow-up". She says she doesn't know what it was about. That means she doesn't know what happened that morning at SA's work.

Then there is the second part, where she says that he didn't get along with some co-workers. Note, not the boss, co-workers. This she is sure about, and since it is not the boss, the second part must refer to events that happened before Christmas. The boss might not even be aware of that.

She knows two things: (A) SA left his job that morning, and (b) SA didn't get along with some coworkers. Those two things were then morphed into a fight that led to him being fired/quit.
 
Tugela said:
Put yourself on the case = get free publicity
Take yourself off the case = get even more free publicity
Click to expand...

That really doesn't fit here. If he had solved the case, he would have received publicity but..his client base is houston, and I seriously doubt the houston media has even mentioned haileys story except during the first few weeks of 2011.
 
Tugela said:
The relevant quote was:

There are two parts to it. Firstly she talks about the "blow-up". She says she doesn't know what it was about. That means she doesn't know what happened that morning at SA's work.

Then there is the second part, where she says that he didn't get along with some co-workers. Note, not the boss, co-workers. This she is sure about, and since it is not the boss, the second part must refer to events that happened before Christmas. The boss might not even be aware of that.

She knows two things: (A) SA left his job that morning, and (b) SA didn't get along with some coworkers. Those two things were then morphed into a fight that led to him being fired/quit.
Click to expand...

Tugela, there is a major flaw in all that you have pointed out and have based your opinions on.

Billie Dunn has been proven to be a liar.
 
Tugela said:
Put yourself on the case = get free publicity
Take yourself off the case = get even more free publicity
Click to expand...


odd bunches of other PI's aren't yearning for the free publicity :waitasec:
 
sreshowtime said:
best i can tell Mac Sanford pulled himself off the case, and according to BJD on one of the Hailey pages, this is apparently someone else she has spoken to

i think it is okay to link this site
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/behindtheyellowtape
Click to expand...

MS was working pro bono. I read the post Billie wrote on the other PI's facebook page, requesting help. Not sure if these two men know and dislike each other personally, or just a little professional jealousy and protecting turfs?

Whatever the deal is, I see why MS would be offended at what she said. Personally, I think she contacted JO because she liked his profile pic was cute and ... good going Billie.
 
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