And no one is attacking Abby. Not buying the lawyers version of events just because he represents the victim is not an attack. I really hope the jurors in this case can keep a more open mind until evidence is shown. The guy may end up being guilty of all charges current or future but he should get a fair trial. That is how it works here in this country.
GUILTY NH - Abby Hernandez, 14, North Conway, 9 Oct 2013 - #15
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SStarr33
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CatFancier
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I understand not wanting to buy the lawyer's version. It's not something we've heard before. However, many of us have believed that for months. Regardless, we now have MSM supporting a violent kidnapping. Together with our victim friendly policy, unless or until LE disputes this or a different MSM article comes out stating the lawyer is incorrect, that's what we follow here. We lead with MSM and LE. LE has not stated she was not kidnapped, in fact, the state has charged Kibby with kidnapping. So we roll with that unless or until we get something official stating that is incorrect.
psyquestor
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Remind me never to mention Dr. Drew is going to discuss anything anymore. I really like the show because of the varying opinions, but I can see that many don't care for that show. I like hearing all the psychobabble and impressions the ever changing panel. Some are experts, some are not but I kind of appreciate all the differing impressions.
One mans garbage is another mans gold.
I will be following this case as it progresses. I too am interested in how it will play out in court. No matter what comes out, I believe this man to be in the wrong. She is a minor and is off limits. Period, no if and or buts.
One mans garbage is another mans gold.
I will be following this case as it progresses. I too am interested in how it will play out in court. No matter what comes out, I believe this man to be in the wrong. She is a minor and is off limits. Period, no if and or buts.
white rabbit
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I agree with bill...river and tlcya, we've not heard abby's version, we've heard her lawyer's version.
I said the same thing bill did two pages ago and got hammered. so i'll rephrase myself:
- the DA charged Nathaniel kibby with a class B kidnapping charge...yes, they had to go with what they could to get him in custody, I get that...
http://www.berlindailysun.com/index...released-abby&catid=103:local-news&Itemid=442
"Nathaniel Kibby, the man accused of kidnapping North Conway teen Abby Hernandez, must have released her unharmed in a safe place based on the way the crime was charged.
"Kidnapping is a class A felony unless the actor voluntarily releases the victim without serious bodily injury and in a safe place prior to trial, in which case it is a class B felony," state NH RSA 633:1 kidnapping.
When asked about the charge, Associate Attorney General Jane Young had no comment."
- abby's attorneys and zenya hernandez both said she was violently abducted and endured months of horrific torture, and was "returned" malnourished and unable to eat solid foods, frail pale and weak.
- class B felony charge, again, is exact to the point where specifics provide for "without serious bodily injury". if what lawyers and mom say are true, then the prosecution should be hung out to dry.
- who here believes that leaving a minor, a teenager, on a busy road in total darkness that's been missing for 9 months, is "in a safe place"?
http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/loc...ease-details-about-hernandez-return/13011669/
,
They want to know whether anyone saw Abby, or another woman, wearing the outfit on Sunday between 10:00 and 10:30 P.M. on North South Road in North Conway.
there's no congruity here...the charge (albeit, minimum, for the state's purposes) + attorney statements (as advocate for the victim, as it should be) + the DA's comments (brief and cryptic)... = speculation.
we're not robots, we're human. we're not here to sleuth rainbows and unicorns...right?
I said the same thing bill did two pages ago and got hammered. so i'll rephrase myself:
- the DA charged Nathaniel kibby with a class B kidnapping charge...yes, they had to go with what they could to get him in custody, I get that...
http://www.berlindailysun.com/index...released-abby&catid=103:local-news&Itemid=442
"Nathaniel Kibby, the man accused of kidnapping North Conway teen Abby Hernandez, must have released her unharmed in a safe place based on the way the crime was charged.
"Kidnapping is a class A felony unless the actor voluntarily releases the victim without serious bodily injury and in a safe place prior to trial, in which case it is a class B felony," state NH RSA 633:1 kidnapping.
When asked about the charge, Associate Attorney General Jane Young had no comment."
- abby's attorneys and zenya hernandez both said she was violently abducted and endured months of horrific torture, and was "returned" malnourished and unable to eat solid foods, frail pale and weak.
- class B felony charge, again, is exact to the point where specifics provide for "without serious bodily injury". if what lawyers and mom say are true, then the prosecution should be hung out to dry.
- who here believes that leaving a minor, a teenager, on a busy road in total darkness that's been missing for 9 months, is "in a safe place"?
http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/loc...ease-details-about-hernandez-return/13011669/
,
They want to know whether anyone saw Abby, or another woman, wearing the outfit on Sunday between 10:00 and 10:30 P.M. on North South Road in North Conway.
there's no congruity here...the charge (albeit, minimum, for the state's purposes) + attorney statements (as advocate for the victim, as it should be) + the DA's comments (brief and cryptic)... = speculation.
we're not robots, we're human. we're not here to sleuth rainbows and unicorns...right?
cluciano63
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I wonder why her lawyer spoke out at this point. I am not sure it was a great idea. Jmo
So if the lawyer says it and media repeats it, it's up to LE to say it didn't happen and until then we cannot discuss what was discussed a week ago?
inthedark14
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BBM...Thanks button is not enough.
CatFancier
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It is WS' aim to follow the lead of MSM and LE. We are doing that. If we get more from MSM or LE, you can sleuth our victim.
CatFancier
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Exactly.
SStarr33
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The attorney said there was all of this violence going on and LE says there was no serious bodily injury. Strange.
CatFancier
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But LE saw her nine months later. She could have had broken bones that would have healed in that amount of time, certainly bruises and welts would be gone much sooner.
SStarr33
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Seems LE would have the same info as the attorney.
CatFancier
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Regular poster hat on: No idea, they may very well. From their earlier comments, they didn't seem to be able to get much from her. Regardless, they physically saw her nine months later so they are not going to announce that she had this, that and the other nine months ago but is healed now without damaging their case. IMO
I agree with this completely, if I am right in my belief that LE needs to be more careful than the family attorney, so as not to negatively affect the case against Kibby.
There might be a number of tests that they need to do to conclusively prove that Abby suffered serious injuries during her captivity, that would take time to be conducted. LE must believe that with the evidence they currently have that they can get a conviction for Kidnapping B(?). Given the time, can't they upgrade the charges? Forgive me if I am completely misguided, my knowledge of the US justice system is not that great.
white rabbit
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I agree, sstarr...and also agree with catfancier. we don't know how early on the alleged violence took place.
and my point was in no way trying to sleuth the victim, there's nothing to sleuth anyway...I'm pointing out the inconsistency here. LE saw the same abby that her mother did upon her return july 20th. and perhaps in the past week, as attorneys were retained for the family, the victim has opened up more, to them versus investigators (feeling of safety, as in, knowing what she states is protected by privilege). I'm only saying that I saw the same abby as LE..."unharmed", superficially at the very least.
I still don't understand why a busy road in total darkness is a 'safe place' to 'release' her, but I'm not a local, maybe it's a very teen-friendly drop-off location...
you can't have it both ways, so we wait to hear what additional charges are brought forth. I guess that's all I'm trying to say.
and my point was in no way trying to sleuth the victim, there's nothing to sleuth anyway...I'm pointing out the inconsistency here. LE saw the same abby that her mother did upon her return july 20th. and perhaps in the past week, as attorneys were retained for the family, the victim has opened up more, to them versus investigators (feeling of safety, as in, knowing what she states is protected by privilege). I'm only saying that I saw the same abby as LE..."unharmed", superficially at the very least.
I still don't understand why a busy road in total darkness is a 'safe place' to 'release' her, but I'm not a local, maybe it's a very teen-friendly drop-off location...
you can't have it both ways, so we wait to hear what additional charges are brought forth. I guess that's all I'm trying to say.
white rabbit
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(I can't pull up boston globe articles as I've reached my limit, i believe this article is based on theirs)
http://www./1411134/abigail-hernandezs-lawyer-she-suffered-unspeakable-violence/
"Coyne, a professor and dean-elect of the Massachusetts School Of Law, according to the schools website, could not be reached for comment. Nor could Jane Young, New Hampshire Associate Attorney General and lead prosecutor in this case. Keiran Ramsey, assistant special agent in charge of the Boston division that covers New Hampshire, declined comment until a criminal complaint is unsealed."
so that makes two of them, that want documents unsealed. rare, IMO, for two opposing sides, no?
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...rnandez-kidnapping-to-be-arraigned-in-conway/
"The judge denied public defender Jesse Friedmans request to unseal affidavits, search warrants and other investigative material before the hearing. Friedman argued it was impossible for him to begin to defend Kibby without knowing the facts that led to his arrest."
http://www./1411134/abigail-hernandezs-lawyer-she-suffered-unspeakable-violence/
"Coyne, a professor and dean-elect of the Massachusetts School Of Law, according to the schools website, could not be reached for comment. Nor could Jane Young, New Hampshire Associate Attorney General and lead prosecutor in this case. Keiran Ramsey, assistant special agent in charge of the Boston division that covers New Hampshire, declined comment until a criminal complaint is unsealed."
so that makes two of them, that want documents unsealed. rare, IMO, for two opposing sides, no?
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...rnandez-kidnapping-to-be-arraigned-in-conway/
"The judge denied public defender Jesse Friedmans request to unseal affidavits, search warrants and other investigative material before the hearing. Friedman argued it was impossible for him to begin to defend Kibby without knowing the facts that led to his arrest."
Orgona
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When you reach your limit of the articles you may read, you can just clean the cookies of your browser and you should be able to read their articles again. As an anonymous reader this should always help, because the websites are placing cookies to enable them to know how many articles you've accessed before. No cookies means new visitor.
CarolinaMoon
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As to whether or not the two had "met" before, I'm sure that will be established by LE's investigation of computers, phones, and any other electronic devices. This will take time and I'm patient. Once there is a PC hearing/GJ indictment, more facts will be available. However, this will be a long investigation due to the size of the crime scene and the length of her being among the missing.
The first night that Abby was "released" I tuned into Dr. Drew. I quit watching about 3 minutes into the discussion because his so-called experts were all putting out inane theories, mostly that they had to have known each other.
I'll wait for the facts, and not from the likes of Dr. Drew, thank you.
The first night that Abby was "released" I tuned into Dr. Drew. I quit watching about 3 minutes into the discussion because his so-called experts were all putting out inane theories, mostly that they had to have known each other.
I'll wait for the facts, and not from the likes of Dr. Drew, thank you.
It sure will be interesting to see this all unfold. It keeps amazing me how someone will come along here and post something and I realize I had not thought of it from that angle.
I'm thinking that a lot of inconsistencies could well be ones of perspective instead. When a family member had triple by-pass surgery, it was a life altering event for them, and the family was on edge waiting for news of recovery etc. For the surgeon though it was just one of two "procedures" he was doing that day.....another day at the office to him! Same people were involved, same surgery was performed but both the patient's side and surgeon' side viewed it completely differently. Wonder if this is the same for AH and her state of health. Perhaps to LE just being "free" and able to walk means safe whereas Abby's family would be more aware of the changes.
I'm thinking that a lot of inconsistencies could well be ones of perspective instead. When a family member had triple by-pass surgery, it was a life altering event for them, and the family was on edge waiting for news of recovery etc. For the surgeon though it was just one of two "procedures" he was doing that day.....another day at the office to him! Same people were involved, same surgery was performed but both the patient's side and surgeon' side viewed it completely differently. Wonder if this is the same for AH and her state of health. Perhaps to LE just being "free" and able to walk means safe whereas Abby's family would be more aware of the changes.