GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #11

[docwho3]

. . . Why is the FBI still involved, if she was just a runaway I feel they would have been long gone. . . .

She is underage and for all we know may have crossed state lines and FBI can become involved if asked by local LE so all sorts of reasons FBI are involved (glad they are too.)

. . .Regardless if she did runaway which I doubt she did she needs to be found and return home to her family.

I agree that her safety and whereabouts need to be confirmed. She is underage and that says it all in that regard.

 

[Bootsctr]

:heartbeat: :sigh: :candle:You've been gone too long Abby! Come home to your family!

 

[Jade127402]

She is underage and for all we know may have crossed state lines and FBI can become involved if asked by local LE so all sorts of reasons FBI are involved (glad they are too.)

I agree that her safety and whereabouts need to be confirmed. She is underage and that says it all in that regard.

Well since LE must have asked the FBI to be involved then they must think she is more than just a runaway. I don't even know how that theory started it never added up to think she ran away. Still praying for a safe return, just depressing on how much time has passed and they have not found her.

 

[docwho3]

Well since LE must have asked the FBI to be involved then they must think she is more than just a runaway. I don't even know how that theory started it never added up to think she ran away. Still praying for a safe return, just depressing on how much time has passed and they have not found her.

At this point anything is possible. In time we should know. Personally I hope for runaway as that gives a chance for a happier ending.

Believing the FBI would not be involved without it must-be-a-crime is a bit mistaken in my opinion. Anyway we can hope for the best.

 

[docwho3]

Tanya Nicole Kach (surfaced after 10 years) Bolded parts bolded by me:
'. . .Hose convinced Kach, 14, that no one loved or cared for her but him, and she agreed to run away to his house in February 1996 — a decision that began what she calls an "unimaginable ordeal." . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_760985.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

This was a case that began as a runaway but was also one of those controlling relationships that became something worse for the runaway.
This is just one of the possibilities I have already mentioned in previous posts.

'. . . She told police that soon after she moved in, Hose threatened to kill her if she attempted to leave, according to a police affidavit . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_437663.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

I can't remember the link right now but there was another teen that ran from somewhere north (think) and was found in Florida where she had been working as a waitress. And she had been gone long enough that people were saying something horrible must have happened because she had been gone so long.

Lots of teens about 14 or 15 in my archives that have run away to be with older guys (sometimes much older.)

Could this one case be a case of foul play? Sure, but it could be a runaway or even a combo as I posted above.

So far I am keeping an open mind but leaning towards some form of the runaway scenario rather than straight out kidnapping.

 

[LookingHoping]

I don't consider Kachin a combo, she was. Oer ed, convinced, brainwashed into thinking she had nobody but him. He was an adult and she a child. That, to me, is all foul play. One of the more sickening kinds, make your victim come to you...sick

 

[inthedark14]

I think about Abby every day. Her sweet face is imprinted on my brain. I hope wherever she is she knows that there are a TON of people just waiting to see her come home.

I'm so sad that she is not at home with her mom and her sister and her fur babies. This case breaks my heart. This young lady had everything going for her and then **poof**.

Abby you are in my prayers everyday. :heartbeat:

 

[MamaJoJo]

I think about Abby every day. Her sweet face is imprinted on my brain. I hope wherever she is she knows that there are a TON of people just waiting to see her come home.

I'm so sad that she is not at home with her mom and her sister and her fur babies. This case breaks my heart. This young lady had everything going for her and then **poof**.

Abby you are in my prayers everyday. :heartbeat:

My feelings exactly!

 

[docwho3]

I don't consider Kachin a combo, she was. Oer ed, convinced, brainwashed into thinking she had nobody but him. He was an adult and she a child. That, to me, is all foul play. One of the more sickening kinds, make your victim come to you...sick

Everyone has their own opinion of how a case looks to them I suppose.

I call it a combo because, for whatever reason, she left without being forced and went to him and that is runaway. If you runaway because you are convinced only that person loves you still ran away. Was he guilty of breaking laws? Yes, and that makes it a combo, not a pure grab and snatch kidnap and not a pure runaway either since she was not allowed to return home on her own.

Was he as evil as you think he was? I do not know. . . perhaps or perhaps not. I was not there but I know she ran away to be with him and he refused to let her leave once she was with him. Those are the facts as reported.

 

[MamaJoJo]

Everyone has their own opinion of how a case looks to them I suppose.

I call it a combo because, for whatever reason, she left without being forced and went to him and that is runaway. If you runaway because you are convinced only that person loves you still ran away. Was he guilty of breaking laws? Yes, and that makes it a combo, not a pure grab and snatch kidnap and not a pure runaway either since she was not allowed to return home on her own.

Was he as evil as you think he was? I do not know. . . perhaps or perhaps not. I was not there but I know she ran away to be with him and he refused to let her leave once she was with him. Those are the facts as reported.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Abby went willingly with anyone. None that I know of at least and I have been living and breathing this case since day one. Please provide a link for the "facts" you are purporting, or, if it's only your opinion, please state it as such.

All that is officially known is that she was last seen (confirmed sighting) on Eagle's Way, right after school, turning down the Power Line Trail. What happened after that, how or where she went missing from, remains a mystery. Her phone last pinged at 3:07pm west of Cranmore Mountain. A letter was received by ZH in November, the contents of which we are not privy to, that was apparently "in a tone AH would use." In addition, the last word from JY is that Abby's safety is of grave concern.

Short of those facts...WE HAVE NOTHING. It's not known if Abby wrote the letter, if she was coerced into writing it, if she was kidnapped, if she chose to leave that day, if she's dyed her hair, if she's deceased, if she is living the life she's always wanted, or if she is a "combo" (as you say). There is so much we don't know, IMO, and while it can be easy to make assumptions, I don't think it's in Abby's best interest to do so and state it as fact.

All IMO. Find your way home, Abby.

 

[Steleheart]

Tanya Nicole Kach (surfaced after 10 years) Bolded parts bolded by me:
'. . .Hose convinced Kach, 14, that no one loved or cared for her but him, and she agreed to run away to his house in February 1996 — a decision that began what she calls an "unimaginable ordeal." . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_760985.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

This was a case that began as a runaway but was also one of those controlling relationships that became something worse for the runaway.
This is just one of the possibilities I have already mentioned in previous posts.

'. . . She told police that soon after she moved in, Hose threatened to kill her if she attempted to leave, according to a police affidavit . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_437663.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

I can't remember the link right now but there was another teen that ran from somewhere north (think) and was found in Florida where she had been working as a waitress. And she had been gone long enough that people were saying something horrible must have happened because she had been gone so long.

Lots of teens about 14 or 15 in my archives that have run away to be with older guys (sometimes much older.)

Could this one case be a case of foul play? Sure, but it could be a runaway or even a combo as I posted above.

So far I am keeping an open mind but leaning towards some form of the runaway scenario rather than straight out kidnapping.

IMO if a child, who does not have the capacity to reason and the ability to make informed choices, makes an adult decision to go with an adult, that is not "willingly". For the same reason that we have statutory rape laws we consider a child to be unable to make those decisions of her own free will without undo coercion and manipulation on the part of the adult.
There is no combo, there is no grey area when the interaction of an adult and a child puts the child at risk. The child is helpless regardless of whether she was manipulated or snatched.

MOO

 

[LORI5050]

IMO if a child, who does not have the capacity to reason and the ability to make informed choices, makes an adult decision to go with an adult, that is not "willingly". For the same reason that we have statutory rape laws we consider a child to be unable to make those decisions of her own free will without undo coercion and manipulation on the part of the adult.
There is no combo, there is no grey area when the interaction of an adult and a child puts the child at risk. The child is helpless regardless of whether she was manipulated or snatched.

MOO

That is exactly how I feel. She is in grave danger whether she left willingly or not.

Her Mom says they had no argument before she disappeared.

She had everything to look forward to in the near future. Her birthday, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas everything that is important to a young girl. She had a boyfriend, lots of school friends. Why would she run away?

I think she may have gone willingly with someone. Not to runaway but maybe excepted a ride from a parent she knew, a teacher, an older student who drove, someone she casually knew.

We've heard nothing out of the ordinary about that day for Abby except she didn't take the bus home and decided to walk. Where was she going? I think if anyone would know it would be a friend.

I think about Abby everyday hoping that she will be found safe but as time goes by I'm thinking the chances are getting less. Mom is looking very tired and my heart goes out to her.

Praying today is the day you are found Abby.

 

[margarita25]

As I've mentioned before here, I just have such a bad feeling about this one. I feel that if she was okay, she would have likely come back home by now. I worry she was forced to write the letter. I hope I'm wrong!!!! jmo

 

[docwho3]

IMO if a child, who does not have the capacity to reason and the ability to make informed choices, makes an adult decision to go with an adult, that is not "willingly". For the same reason that we have statutory rape laws we consider a child to be unable to make those decisions of her own free will without undo coercion and manipulation on the part of the adult.
There is no combo, there is no grey area when the interaction of an adult and a child puts the child at risk. The child is helpless regardless of whether she was manipulated or snatched.

MOO

I get where you are coming from on that. To some point I can even agree but we are discussing two different things . . . a statutory type thing on the one hand (which assigns legal and perhaps even moral culpability) versus a physical description of what happened (in the example case) on the other hand. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Having said that: If we still disagree then, having said my piece, I will let things stand as they are and just agree to disagree.

 

[docwho3]

There is no evidence whatsoever that Abby went willingly with anyone. None that I know of at least and I have been living and breathing this case since day one. Please provide a link for the "facts" you are purporting, or, if it's only your opinion, please state it as such.. . ..

I think you have misunderstood the conversation you quote. I was discussing another case which I used as an example of a possible combo type case that might be the general type of case that has taken place here. (I DID provide links to that case.) I was not ever claiming all those details applied to this specific case but only that we might, in general, have a combo type of case here.

When a post questioned my use of the term combo to describe that example case I responded discussing details of that example case and tried to explain why I used the term 'combo' to describe that example case.
(Again I remind you that in previous post about that example case I provided links.)

<modsnip>

I have made no claims of fact that this missing girl has left willingly with anyone but I have said it is possible that she is a runaway or some variation of a runaway such as that example combo case I cited.

It is permissible to say you think a thing is possible or that you lean towards a particular possibility in case discussion and that is what I have done.

If you read the links I provided of the example case and then read my remarks (which were about that example case and not this missing person's actions) you should be able to see that I spoke only to that case and its facts as reported in MSM.

Having explained myself: I stand by my statement that this case we have here might possibly be a combo case (runaway/restraint) but I also said that it is also possible that foul play took place. I lean towards it being some sort of runaway or runaway combo case but I keep an open mind.

 

[MamaJoJo]

Tanya Nicole Kach (surfaced after 10 years) Bolded parts bolded by me:
'. . .Hose convinced Kach, 14, that no one loved or cared for her but him, and she agreed to run away to his house in February 1996 &#8212; a decision that began what she calls an "unimaginable ordeal." . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_760985.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

This was a case that began as a runaway but was also one of those controlling relationships that became something worse for the runaway.
This is just one of the possibilities I have already mentioned in previous posts.

'. . . She told police that soon after she moved in, Hose threatened to kill her if she attempted to leave, according to a police affidavit . . .'
http://triblive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_437663.html#axzz2yidc5SdI

I can't remember the link right now but there was another teen that ran from somewhere north (think) and was found in Florida where she had been working as a waitress. And she had been gone long enough that people were saying something horrible must have happened because she had been gone so long.

Lots of teens about 14 or 15 in my archives that have run away to be with older guys (sometimes much older.)

Could this one case be a case of foul play? Sure, but it could be a runaway or even a combo as I posted above.

So far I am keeping an open mind but leaning towards some form of the runaway scenario rather than straight out kidnapping.

Everyone has their own opinion of how a case looks to them I suppose.

I call it a combo because, for whatever reason, she left without being forced and went to him and that is runaway. If you runaway because you are convinced only that person loves you still ran away. Was he guilty of breaking laws? Yes, and that makes it a combo, not a pure grab and snatch kidnap and not a pure runaway either since she was not allowed to return home on her own.

Was he as evil as you think he was? I do not know. . . perhaps or perhaps not. I was not there but I know she ran away to be with him and he refused to let her leave once she was with him. Those are the facts as reported.

BBM

I am in no way trying to fight with you, Doc. Clearly, it was a simple misunderstanding on my part. I read your posts for what they were. If you had included Kach's name in the post, your point would have been much clearer to me, IMO. Pronouns have gotten the better of us many times in this case! Common goal, right? BRING ABBY HOME!

ETA: I stand by my statements, as well. There is no evidence of her running away or being kidnapped or going willingly at first then it turning south. Nothing.

 

[docwho3]

BBM

I am in no way trying to fight with you, Doc. Clearly, it was a simple misunderstanding on my part. I read your posts for what they were. If you had included Kach's name in the post, your point would have been much clearer to me, IMO. Common goal, right? BRING ABBY HOME!

I thought anyone following the discussion would know I was speaking about the example case . . . . but perhaps I should have made greater effort to make that easier to know since clearly there was some misunderstanding that took place. I agree that we have a common goal here.

 

[docwho3]

As I've mentioned before here, I just have such a bad feeling about this one. I feel that if she was okay, she would have likely come back home by now. I worry she was forced to write the letter. I hope I'm wrong!!!! jmo

I think we all worry about this young lady and hope for the best.
That letter could be something that indicates runaway but we do not know exactly what the letter said. If it was worded as an adult might say things it could indicate something more sinister. Right now we just don't know.

I think I read that it was thought to be her actual handwriting but that does nothing to tell us if she was made to write the letter or whether she used her own words from her own heart.

I think that letter might tell enough to lean one way or the other but we have no access to it.

 

[Steleheart]

I think we all worry about this young lady and hope for the best.
That letter could be something that indicates runaway but we do not know exactly what the letter said. If it was worded as an adult might say things it could indicate something more sinister. Right now we just don't know.

I think I read that it was thought to be her actual handwriting but that does nothing to tell us if she was made to write the letter or whether she used her own words from her own heart.

I think that letter might tell enough to lean one way or the other but we have no access to it.

Is this a new development? Up until now LE was silent on that point so if you could provide a link I would greatly appreciate it.

TIA!!

 

[Montjoy]

The article linked below states that the letter was subjected to handwriting analysis, and determined to be from Abigail. If the letter had been typed, it would not have been.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20131206/NEWS03/131209529