NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

[carbuff]

I don't think the Reapps would be on it, they were ruled out years before NamUs, and most likely would be auto rule-outs if they were compared today because all have DNA profiles.

Yes, that's almost certainly the case. I was addressing the question of whether they had been on the Namus list before, as some of us thought we remembered, and were not on it now, which would have been intriguing. But it's just more old news.

Sigh. I wish we could get new news.

 

[Alleykins]

Yes, that's almost certainly the case. I was addressing the question of whether they had been on the Namus list before, as some of us thought we remembered, and were not on it now, which would have been intriguing. But it's just more old news.

Sigh. I wish we could get new news.

Gotcha.
I wish there were updates, too.

 

[msphilosopher]

I posted this in TR thread but also reposting here:

I started searching missing and unsolved homicides in NV since we found the Robert Evans shoe shop connection(TR thread). Maybe he was in Nevada and then traveled to NH.

Could this be middle child's mom???

Quick facts:
- 17yr old, Jeannie Smith, Skeletal Remains found nov. '79.. was missing since Oct. '78
- Resembles middle child (pic below)
- Died of blunt force trauma
- Lemmon Valley, Reno NV which lines up with isotopes of middle child (including pics below)

Detailed facts below from: https://www.washoesheriff.com/sub.ph...lved-homicides

Victim: Jeannie Smith
Location: Lemmon Valley
Date of Occurrence: November 02, 1979

Synopsis:
On November 02, 1979 the skeletal remains of Jeannie Smith, age 17, were found in Lemmon Valley, Nevada,North of Reno. She died as a result of blunt force trauma. Her remains were found in a shallow grave about 1 mile from where Julia Woodward had been discovered in March of the same year.

Smith was last seen on October 28, 1978, att he Circus-Circus Hotel in Reno, Nevada. She had been a reported missing person from Reno Police.

This agency is actively seeking anyone who may have knowledge about this case.

 

[Squirrel85]

I posted this in TR thread but also reposting here:

I started searching missing and unsolved homicides in NV since we found the Robert Evans shoe shop connection(TR thread). Maybe he was in Nevada and then traveled to NH.




Could this be middle child's mom???

Quick facts:
- 17yr old, Jeannie Smith, Skeletal Remains found nov. '79.. was missing since Oct. '78
- Resembles middle child (pic below)
- Died of blunt force trauma
- Lemmon Valley, Reno NV which lines up with isotopes of middle child (including pics below)

Detailed facts below from: https://www.washoesheriff.com/sub.ph...lved-homicides

Victim: Jeannie Smith
Location: Lemmon Valley
Date of Occurrence: November 02, 1979

Synopsis:
On November 02, 1979 the skeletal remains of Jeannie Smith, age 17, were found in Lemmon Valley, Nevada,North of Reno. She died as a result of blunt force trauma. Her remains were found in a shallow grave about 1 mile from where Julia Woodward had been discovered in March of the same year.

Smith was last seen on October 28, 1978, att he Circus-Circus Hotel in Reno, Nevada. She had been a reported missing person from Reno Police.

This agency is actively seeking anyone who may have knowledge about this case.

If Jeannie Smith's mother is still alive they could do Mitochondrial DNA testing. Our Mitochondria matches our mother's, so if Jeannie is/was the mother of the girl in the barrel their Mitochondria would be a match. They would just need a sample of bone from the girl in the barrel.

 

[msphilosopher]

Some other interesting facts I found about Jeannie:

- Suspected she may have been killed by an unknown serial killer
- Blunt force trauma, multiple skull fractures due to blows to the back of her head (matches to allenstown victims IIRC)
- Was last seen by her co worker who said she left with a white male, sandy blonde hair, tall, and looked like a construction worker. She also said they "very friendly" together.... probably the 1970s way of alluding to them being romantically involved
- Reno HS drop out... couldn't find any details of why she dropped out, e.g. pregnancy
- One article said she was a Reno native, another article said she was a native of Hermiston, Ore
- She was working as a waitress at the circus circus hotel casino
- Thought to be a runaway ... don't hold much onto that one since probably all missing 17yos in the 70's were thought to be runaways
- Her missing person investigation was closed two months before her remains were found because her parents moved away -- I found that odd
- Also her mother's name, coincidentally is the same name as the daughter of Robert J Evans (the shoe store guy) -- RJE is old enough to have been Jeannie's gpa, crazy coincidence but then again it wouldn't surprise me if TR stole the identity of his bio daughter's great gpa.

sources:
Reno Gazette - Nov. 9, 1979
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/151049645/
Reno Gazette - July 2008
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/149469898/
Reno Gazette - Nov. 13, 1979
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/151052326/


Does anyone have newspapers.com subscription? Seems like most articles I read on Jeannie were cut off because I don't have subscription.

 

[msphilosopher]

side by side pic comparison:

composite link: http://oakhillresearch.blogspot.com/2010/12/the-missng-theories.html
Jeannie link: https://www.washoesheriff.com/sub.php?page=unsolved-homicides

 

[Earth]

It definitely seems to be a possibility.

 

[Springrain]

I now believe that Terry's murdered daughter was most likely from Colorado. Him going back to the same places (CA and AZ) combined with a fair chunk of Colorado showing up on her isotope reports make me believe this. My guess would be probably relatively close to the Nebraska border.

Is that Woodlawn Jane Doe compared to her?

I could see TR taking the daughter from Colorado (Or wherever she spent most of her life) and bringing her to New Hampshire with a story about her dead mother who he killed, of course leaving out that he'd killed her.

I think the adult victim's friends/family were convinced she had just moved away and didn't realize she and her daughter had been murdered. I agree with a post on the old thread that she may have not had time to introduce TR to her family or just didn't want to. IIRC the autopsy report says that all 4 victims lived together for the last 2ish months of their lives. So he had his daughter, talked some about how he was a single dad after her mom dying, got the adult's attention, and then she moved in with him or lived nearby until she and the kids were murdered.

 

[Springrain]

It would make it quite interesting if adult female was heavily pregnant with her 2nd child in 1977 (child 4 above in chart) and RE was around, as the same was happening with Denise in 1981. His own child was not probably with him yet in 77, so people could remember only 1 child at this point, the eldest?

Bringing this forward from coppehead's post linked by carbuff.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I think the adult victim's friends/family were convinced she had just moved away and didn't realize she and her daughter had been murdered.

TR did something similar with Denise Beaudin. Her family didn't report her missing until Dec 2016 (a month before the case was publicized). They thought her and TR moved away to escape financial problems. Just prior to them leaving without notice at the Manchester address TR ate Thanksgiving dinner with Denise's family. As we know, he was terribly convincing. I wonder what he may have said to her family. Anyways, I think this may also be a similar case for the adult victim.


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[Springrain]

TR did something similar with Denise Beaudin. Her family didn't report her missing until Dec 2016 (a month before the case was publicized). They thought her and TR moved away to escape financial problems. Just prior to them leaving without notice at the Manchester address TR ate Thanksgiving dinner with Denise's family. As we know, he was terribly convincing. I wonder what he may have said to her family. Anyways, I think this may also be a similar case for the adult victim.


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Yes, that's what made me think of it! The financial problems bit make me wonder if the adult victim's family thought they were in the same boat specifically FOR financial problems. I'm sure it was something similar regardless.

Sorry for repeating but when was the Elizabeth Evans thing from?

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Yes, that's what made me think of it! The financial problems bit make me wonder if the adult victim's family thought they were in the same boat specifically FOR financial problems. I'm sure it was something similar regardless.

Sorry for repeating but when was the Elizabeth Evans thing from?

Elizabeth Evans is from 1980 documents regarding the Hayward st address. Bob Evans first lists her as a spouse for an arrest (bad check or diverting electricity). She also signed for mail at that address. And he also is referenced to have had a 2 year old and 6 month old in that time period (the 6 month was not Lisa). Later that year he lists no spouse. Almost exactly a year later he leaves Manchester with Denise and her daughter.

Here's a source,
"In*1980, Evans was arrested in February and June and listed his spouse as Elizabeth Evans, though authorities do not know who that is. In October of the same year, Evans was arrested again, and did not list a spouse.*" source:http://www.nh1.com/news/timeline-of-events-leading-to-the-identificat

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[Alleykins]

Were we ever able to pinpoint the actual date the mill closed? I'm wondering if the mills was already shut down and he was out of work, and doing handyman stuff at the store, by the time he starts getting caught diverting electricity and bouncing checks, his fun tickets running out.
I thought is was in 1980, but I can't find anything solid. If it were 1980, by the time he and DB take off, he would have been out of work for at least a year, because investigators haven't mentioned a place of employment in NH after the mill, except for doing odd jobs for the camp store.

 

[carbuff]

Were we ever able to pinpoint the actual date the mill closed? I'm wondering if the mills was already shut down and he was out of work, and doing handyman stuff at the store, by the time he starts getting caught diverting electricity and bouncing checks, his fun tickets running out.
I thought is was in 1980, but I can't find anything solid. If it were 1980, by the time he and DB take off, he would have been out of work for at least a year, because investigators haven't mentioned a place of employment in NH after the mill, except for doing odd jobs for the camp store.

I think we determined that there was a long transition after the mill itself stopped operating, where they shut down and sold the equipment, stripped out the wiring, etc. And that RE was probably involved in that as well as possibly some other area mills owned by the same company that were closing at the same time. But I don't recall a definitive answer.

I remember the Manchester area was in sad shape in the early 80's. Nashua, where we lived, was booming from high tech, but Manchester was slowly rusting into the Merrimack River. So I think there's merit to your speculation that he was out of work.

He would not be the first repeat murderer/serial killer to be triggered by economic adversity.

 

[Springrain]

Elizabeth Evans is from 1980 documents regarding the Hayward st address. Bob Evans first lists her as a spouse for an arrest (bad check or diverting electricity). She also signed for mail at that address. And he also is referenced to have had a 2 year old and 6 month old in that time period (the 6 month was not Lisa). Later that year he lists no spouse. Almost exactly a year later he leaves Manchester with Denise and her daughter.

Here's a source,
"In*1980, Evans was arrested in February and June and listed his spouse as Elizabeth Evans, though authorities do not know who that is. In October of the same year, Evans was arrested again, and did not list a spouse.*" source:http://www.nh1.com/news/timeline-of-events-leading-to-the-identificat

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Thank you!

 

[Al Ka]

Bringing this forward from coppehead's post linked by carbuff.

It would make it quite interesting if adult female was heavily pregnant with her 2nd child in 1977 (child 4 above in chart) and RE was around, as the same was happening with Denise in 1981. His own child was not probably with him yet in 77, so people could remember only 1 child at this point, the eldest?

Not to brag but this was actually posted by me, under coppehead's post.

My original post 06-28-2017:

if we put cut off date end of 1980 and trying to see what ages they all were in 1977 when RE got Waumbeck Mill job in Manchester.

- child #4 was born between 1977 and 1979 (estimated age 2-3 years) - in 77 - heavily pregnant or just conceived?
- child #3 was born between 1976 and 1978 (estimated age 3-4 years) - 77- she would be around 1 year or just born
- child #2 was born between 1970 and 1972 (estimated age 9-10 years) - in 77 -she would be around 6 - 7 years old

White Female - Estimated age: 23-32 years old in 1980, so around 19-29 in 1977. (I think I would scrap 19 as that would make her 12-13 when having her 1st child, but who knows)

It would make it quite interesting if adult female was heavily pregnant with her 2nd child in 1977 (child 4 above in chart) and RE was around, as the same was happening with Denise in 1981. His own child was not probably with him yet in 77, so people could remember only 1 child at this point, the eldest?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...und-Nov-85-amp-May-00&p=13458076#post13458076

Now, my calculation's above were based on year 1977 as per given information by LE at the time that Terry arrived to NH that year. We now know that that information is no longer correct. I mean ages of the children would be correct that year but that is not when Terry was yet with them. My new calculations will be in new post. Some interesting findings after revisiting.

 

[Al Ka]

Children ages in 1977

- child #4 was born between 1977 and 1979 (estimated age 2-3 years) - in 77 - heavily pregnant or just conceived?
- child #3 was born between 1976 and 1978 (estimated age 3-4 years) - 77- she would be around 1 year or just born
- child #2 was born between 1970 and 1972 (estimated age 9-10 years) - in 77 -she would be around 6 - 7 years old

With new information since above calculation were made, we now know that Terry left Texas in June/July 1978 and he could be in NH only sometimes after that. Earliest confirmed sighting is December of 1979 when he already resided in house on Hayward Street, Manchester and when Elizabeth signed for recorded delivery letter from police to him.

Now, the ages of the same children end of 1979/Feb 1980 if we look at upper limits of birth year:
- child #4 was born between 1977 and 1979 (estimated age 2-3 years at death) - 79 - newly born (few month) up to 2 years
- child #3 was born between 1976 and 1978 (estimated age 3-4 years) - in 79 - 2 years old up to 3 years old
- child #2 was born between 1970 and 1972 (estimated age 9-10 years) - in 79 - she would be around 8 - 9 years old

As per above end of 1970 beginning of 1980 estimated ages of victim 4, youngest child in the barrel would be few month old and victim 3, middle child (his own child) would be around 2 years old. Both ages do correspond with what Terry reported to police in January/February 1980 of having 2 year old and 6 month old.

This leads to two conclusions.
- If death occured sometime in 1980 as many assume then estimated age of skeletal remains of children by LE could be wrong.
- If estimated age of children by LE is correct then death occured only after 1980. As per calculations it would point to years between 1981 and the latest 1983.

 

[Al Ka]

Bringing forward excellent calculation by Coppehead of female adult victim date of birth based of know details (her estimated age at death and estimated age of her possible older daughter, victim 2)

She is said to most likely be in her mid-20s, so the smaller ages are more likely, but obviously (hopefully) most likely 12-14 would have been too young. It is more likely she was at least 16 at the time of her first born's birth. So if she was at least 16 in 1970 she would have been born by 1954. Which means her DOB would be between 1948 and 1954.

Edit. Also, since adult #1 was said to be in her mid-20s, I think we can safely bring forward her earliest DOB by at least four years making it between 1952 and 1954. (Which is pretty narrow window!) I added new estimates to her estimated age when giving birth.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...und-Nov-85-amp-May-00&p=13457991#post13457991

Hope this information might help when searching for adult female identity or match

Adult victim in barrel - born possibly between 1948 and 1954 (or even narrower estimate of 1952 - 1954)
Terry Peder Rasmussen was born Dec. 23, 1943 (38 years old at 1981 when he left NH)
Denise Beaudin was born on Jan. 7, 1958 (23 years old at 1981 when missing)

 

[carbuff]

I don't think we can assume for certain that he wasn't in NH by 1977; he seems to have traveled a lot and he could have been back and forth between Texas and NH and possibly other locations such as St. Louis and Idaho/CO/Wyoming as well.

 

[Gardener1850]

Somewhat OT: DNA Doe Project made a detailed post explaining how they identified Buckskin Girl as Marcia King. In the comments someone asks if they would consider working on the Bear Book/Allenstown 4. Margaret Press replies they are on the list for consideration:
https://www.facebook.com/DNADoeProject/posts/2048512292074212

I'm hoping that DDP will pick up this case and solve it.