NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Recent research has cast a lot of doubt on that theory. Not so much that he's wrong as that it's much more complicated than his rather simple version.
Yes, I agree recent research has done so, but most population genetic websites that I've looked at consider mtDNA clans A, B, C, D, & X to be prevelant among First Nations. Although his work is from the 90s, it became a springboard for many theories following it. Are you referring to Mitochondrial Eve as being questionable, or the Indigenous mtDNA many researchers use?
 
Could the unrelated child be a parental abduction by the father and he just killed them all?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm leaning toward something like that, where the middle child might have been visiting her father's new family and she was never returned. So, it may not have started out as an abduction, but turned into parental kidnapping when she wasn't brought back. That's why my mind is kind of boggled that her mum or maternal family haven't come looking for her, especially.
The AG said in the press conference that most likely questions were asked by the families and friends of these victims, and they were answered (most likely by the suspect) but not followed up by them. If you haven't watched the press conference from last November, it was really informative and well worth watching. I've watched it a couple of times and picked up on something new each time.

The way I see it, there could possibly be five different families out there looking for them- the woman's family, the middle child's mother's family, and possibly up to three different paternal families looking for their respective child, should all three children have different fathers. The hitch is each one could be looking for a part or combination of the group, instead of the whole group. For example, the woman might have been estranged from her family before the youngest two came along, so they may only be looking for a mother and daughter. The middle girl's family may be looking for her and her father, and may not know about the woman and the other two girls. There could even be an old neighbor who is looking for a mother and her two daughters, and not know that a third girl joined them after they moved away. This is just my take on it all, anyway, fWiw.
 
Yes, I agree recent research has done so, but most population genetic websites that I've looked at consider mtDNA clans A, B, C, D, & X to be prevelant among First Nations. Although his work is from the 90s, it became a springboard for many theories following it. Are you referring to Mitochondrial Eve as being questionable, or the Indigenous mtDNA many researchers use?

Mitochondrial Eve as applied to the general population. I didn't realize you were talking about just the First Nations aspect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hope you're soon up & at 'em, Rose!! I often think of you when I cut buds from my McClinton tea, & wonder which roses you may have. I'm a freak so I have >30.

I don't suppose they ever release which specific mtDNA clan the UIs belong to? It would help with discussing First Narions origins. I'm a Luddite, as I often whine, so I can't link. Many years ago Professor Brian Sykes published his landmark work 'The Seven Daughters of Eve,' Eve being the original mother of modern human women. A nod towards which group would help sleuthing, but I don't know if this is legal or not. Any thoughts?

Thank you. Had to look it up, that's an old rose. I had 200 at one time

Someone can elaborate, we've always known they were native, I believe they had shovel teeth. It was the isotopes on the middle girl that matched up with specific reservations. I don't think they did any more specific testing then that

Oh, just that I expect her to be someone who was taken away from family like that.

I agree. Hopefully an aunt or something will start looking. Look at Doris and Caren, Doris has a twin who's daughter has been googling.

I'm leaning toward something like that, where the middle child might have been visiting her father's new family and she was never returned. So, it may not have started out as an abduction, but turned into parental kidnapping when she wasn't brought back. That's why my mind is kind of boggled that her mum or maternal family haven't come looking for her, especially.
The AG said in the press conference that most likely questions were asked by the families and friends of these victims, and they were answered (most likely by the suspect) but not followed up by them. If you haven't watched the press conference from last November, it was really informative and well worth watching. I've watched it a couple of times and picked up on something new each time.

The way I see it, there could possibly be five different families out there looking for them- the woman's family, the middle child's mother's family, and possibly up to three different paternal families looking for their respective child, should all three children have different fathers. The hitch is each one could be looking for a part or combination of the group, instead of the whole group. For example, the woman might have been estranged from her family before the youngest two came along, so they may only be looking for a mother and daughter. The middle girl's family may be looking for her and her father, and may not know about the woman and the other two girls. There could even be an old neighbor who is looking for a mother and her two daughters, and not know that a third girl joined them after they moved away. This is just my take on it all, anyway, fWiw.

I agree, there could be multiple people looking. The thing is, back then it would be a family court case, LE would tell the parent to file a motion to get the child back, or they would say he is the childs parent and able to have the child like Sharon Marshall/ Suzanne Sevakis.
 
Yes, I agree, the shovel-shaped incisors were the give away. Just wish they'd elaborate more on the sub-clade specifics. I recently binge-watched the Canadian TV series 'Blackstone.' Incredible writing & acting, centered around a First Nations Cree tribe. One of the women disappears, several young girls are drawn into prostitution in Ottowa, & along with alcoholism they weighed in on the topic of physical & sexual abuse on the reserve. They showed an Indigenous counselor looking at a website that was similar to the Canadian Trail of Tears (Highway 18?) haven't had a chance yet to look at some of those sites in Canada to see who's on the missing list.

Did WS ever receive info from any First Nations group? As an old anthropologist, I can see where they'd be reticent to share information. Wonder how to build bridges there?? I must go back to look at the isotopes & correlate it with my old Peabody book to consider which reserve they might have come from....
 
I agree, there could be multiple people looking. The thing is, back then it would be a family court case, LE would tell the parent to file a motion to get the child back, or they would say he is the childs parent and able to have the child like Sharon Marshall/ Suzanne Sevakis.

My state didn't have a family court until sometime in the 2000s. Divorces and custody, etc, were handled in district court. We were a bit behind the times. Took my ex 3 years to get a court date with his ex-wife to enforce visitation, and the judge said, in essence, was for the parents to grow up and work something out, without any directions as to holidays, weekends, etc. That was in 1999. I can hardly imagine how much indifference a parent might have encountered in the 70s or 80s by this same judge, who was there during that time, too. My state is one of the isotope red boxes for the middle child.
 
Yes, I agree, the shovel-shaped incisors were the give away. Just wish they'd elaborate more on the sub-clade specifics. I recently binge-watched the Canadian TV series 'Blackstone.' Incredible writing & acting, centered around a First Nations Cree tribe. One of the women disappears, several young girls are drawn into prostitution in Ottowa, & along with alcoholism they weighed in on the topic of physical & sexual abuse on the reserve. They showed an Indigenous counselor looking at a website that was similar to the Canadian Trail of Tears (Highway 18?) haven't had a chance yet to look at some of those sites in Canada to see who's on the missing list.

Did WS ever receive info from any First Nations group? As an old anthropologist, I can see where they'd be reticent to share information. Wonder how to build bridges there?? I must go back to look at the isotopes & correlate it with my old Peabody book to consider which reserve they might have come from....

Sorry, inbox is clean.
I had found a web site similar to that show where it went into detail about missing native women. I don't recall if they listed names or not.

WS doesn't get any case info, stuff like that we as advocates have to try to get for each case we work. WS is "just a message board" (no disrespect intended) that lists cases. They're not an organization like Project Jason or NCMEC.
 
I'll be in D.C, September for hubs' meeting. We are applying for a U.S. Colored Troops monument for his g-g grandpere, & I want to go to the Smithsonian to check on some thoughts I have after speaking to a friend who's a Métis M'kmaq. I want to do a transparent overlay of the isotope areas with tribal reserves. It may come to nothing, but, hey, it's a thought. I did my thesis on tribal isolates along the Spanish Borderlands of the 18th-20th centuries, so I thought it would be a roll. Hard six.
 
I think it might be like the Suzanne Sevakis case - a father or stepfather gets custody of a child when mother is absent for some reason, abuses her and she has the first child, he gets married again and his wife has the second child, then she is absent for some reason and he kills them.
 
Keep in mind that the older victim is not necessarily the mother of any of the other children. She could be a sister, an aunt, or even a cousin if the mothers were sisters.
 
Keep in mind that the older victim is not necessarily the mother of any of the other children. She could be a sister, an aunt, or even a cousin if the mothers were sisters.

I was thinking something like this. If she was the mother AND sister, maybe that could be why the tests can't say if she was the mother or not.
 
I happened to be re-reading something the other day about the Elizabeth Smart case and found out that Brian David Mitchell spent two years in New Hampshire in the seventies - he lived in an apartment with a girlfriend about an hour or so away from Allenstown. He had his 2 children with him at that time. They are adults now. He never killed anyone as far as we all know but I'm still filing that away in my head just in case.
 
I was thinking something like this. If she was the mother AND sister, maybe that could be why the tests can't say if she was the mother or not.

Possible, but the DNA results are simply because mitochondrial DNA only tells that two people share a common female ancestor through an all-female line. It doesn't mean anything sinister.
 
I happened to be re-reading something the other day about the Elizabeth Smart case and found out that Brian David Mitchell spent two years in New Hampshire in the seventies - he lived in an apartment with a girlfriend about an hour or so away from Allenstown. He had his 2 children with him at that time. They are adults now. He never killed anyone as far as we all know but I'm still filing that away in my head just in case.

This is very interesting. Do you have the name of the NH town?
 
I severely doubt Brian Mitchell is linked, however.
 
I severely doubt Brian Mitchell is linked, however.

You may be right, but it just goes to show how mobile people are and that ideas can't be limited to the surrounding area just because that's where the victims were found.
 
I severely doubt Brian Mitchell is linked, however.

Too geographically and time proximate to ignore if you ask me. Doubt has crazy "wife" was the first "wife" he took if he was crazy back then too.
 
Too geographically and time proximate to ignore if you ask me. Doubt has crazy "wife" was the first "wife" he took if he was crazy back then too.
Even if not him, it may be someone associated with him or his religious affiliation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
161
Guests online
2,069
Total visitors
2,230

Forum statistics

Threads
600,295
Messages
18,106,410
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top