NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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People keep saying if a family disappeared, then someone must know something. I keep thinking that people would be much less likely to know something if it was a family - it is much easier to assume they all moved, the killer would likely be a family member who would not report it, and it is much more likely that a family could be isolated and dysfunctional enough to not have other close ties than unrelated people. Of course if there is possibly a niece and non-relative relationship, that would be harder to cover than, for example, a man murdering his wife and children. Very tragic.

Also, I don't get the whole "trailer park, sex offender - sounds like the key!" aspect. The fact that no one reported it, along with the beating and the fact that most are related, strongly suggests this was a crime by a family member and that it was an isolated family. Probably a family without many resources, but probably not one that lived in a trailer park - people would definitely notice if most of the family disappeared - it is easy to see the comings and goings. I understand looking into it at the time, but not seeing it as the key now.
 
lawstudent said:
People keep saying if a family disappeared, then someone must know something. I keep thinking that people would be much less likely to know something if it was a family - it is much easier to assume they all moved, the killer would likely be a family member who would not report it, and it is much more likely that a family could be isolated and dysfunctional enough to not have other close ties than unrelated people. Of course if there is possibly a niece and non-relative relationship, that would be harder to cover than, for example, a man murdering his wife and children. Very tragic.

Also, I don't get the whole "trailer park, sex offender - sounds like the key!" aspect. The fact that no one reported it, along with the beating and the fact that most are related, strongly suggests this was a crime by a family member and that it was an isolated family. Probably a family without many resources, but probably not one that lived in a trailer park - people would definitely notice if most of the family disappeared - it is easy to see the comings and goings. I understand looking into it at the time, but not seeing it as the key now.
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I agree with everything but not living in a trailer park. If the person who killed the family, presumably the father, were to have moved out the same day he killed the others, nobody would notice. As you say, it's not unusual when entire families move.

Years ago we lived in an apartment complex in NH and our daughter used to go over to her friends' apartment to watch TV after school. One night we went to pick her up and found the dad in the living room packing a couple of boxes; he'd had a call from a friend warning that a sheriff's warrant attaching his property for unpaid debt was going to be served in the morning, so they were leaving to live with his mother in AZ. They were gone within a couple of hours with everything they could pack in their (rather large) pickup and we never heard from them again. Ran into the dad years later and he said they'd split up shortly after that. I never thought anything of it (and no, they can't be this family because the first barrel had already been found) but there's an unidentified woman in AZ who reminds me very much of this woman. I really doubt it's her, and I couldn't call it in anyway because I don't remember their name or even the time of year. And it makes me wonder how many people who are out there who DID notice the absence but never connected it to foul play, or who had moved on themselves and never heard about the remains being found, or who remember but don't remember enough to be useful.
 
Coming late to this case. Do we know if the adult female and the children are linked via DNA? The most logical conclusion is that they share a familial connection, mother and children. Has that been established or is that just a logical assumption I am working with?

I agree carbuff, it would be a simple matter for a male associate (husband/father/boyfriend) to simply move from the area at the same time as the 4 were killed and disposed of. The assumption by neighbors or friends and associates would be that the entire family moved on to parts unknown. When in reality only he moved on.
 
tlcya said:
Coming late to this case. Do we know if the adult female and the children are linked via DNA?
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Yes, the adult female was linked to the older and youngest girls. The middle girl was inconclusive.
 
carbuff said:
I agree with everything but not living in a trailer park. If the person who killed the family, presumably the father, were to have moved out the same day he killed the others, nobody would notice. As you say, it's not unusual when entire families move.

Years ago we lived in an apartment complex in NH and our daughter used to go over to her friends' apartment to watch TV after school. One night we went to pick her up and found the dad in the living room packing a couple of boxes; he'd had a call from a friend warning that a sheriff's warrant attaching his property for unpaid debt was going to be served in the morning, so they were leaving to live with his mother in AZ. They were gone within a couple of hours with everything they could pack in their (rather large) pickup and we never heard from them again. Ran into the dad years later and he said they'd split up shortly after that. I never thought anything of it (and no, they can't be this family because the first barrel had already been found) but there's an unidentified woman in AZ who reminds me very much of this woman. I really doubt it's her, and I couldn't call it in anyway because I don't remember their name or even the time of year. And it makes me wonder how many people who are out there who DID notice the absence but never connected it to foul play, or who had moved on themselves and never heard about the remains being found, or who remember but don't remember enough to be useful.
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Agreed that it would not be unusual for a family to pack up and leave quickly from a trailer park, but since the police investigated it at the time, I imagine they asked people if a family had disappeared suddenly. While people don't always speak up or make the connection, if they were directly asked and it happened so close, I can't imagine people would totally dismiss it and not mention it, even if they thought the family was probably fine somewhere else. And if the killer moved too, it's not like they'd be terrified of him coming after them, and even if they had a general distrust of police, whether or not a family with a young girl(s) moved recently doesn't seem particularly juicy. I would assume that there is no connection because it is so far-fetched - I'd say oh yeah one lived over there if it would get the police to wrap up. At least one person would have brought it up if asked directly, I would bet. It just doesn't seem like particularly traceable or significant information to give. Plus the crime is so heinous that someone usually speaks up regardless of the feelings toward LE in such cases.
 
tlcya said:
Coming late to this case. Do we know if the adult female and the children are linked via DNA? The most logical conclusion is that they share a familial connection, mother and children. Has that been established or is that just a logical assumption I am working with?

I agree carbuff, it would be a simple matter for a male associate (husband/father/boyfriend) to simply move from the area at the same time as the 4 were killed and disposed of. The assumption by neighbors or friends and associates would be that the entire family moved on to parts unknown. When in reality only he moved on.
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I read that apparently through DNA the woman is the mother of two of the girls, and the third may also be a relative? I'm thinking a cousin, niece, or maybe a friend of one of the two girls that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Or her step kid.

leonhardt said:
I read that apparently through DNA the woman is the mother of two of the girls, and the third may also be a relative? I'm thinking a cousin, niece, or maybe a friend of one of the two girls that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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They were unable to rule out a paternal relation between the girls I think I remember.

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maybe they were her kids from a former relationship and her partner's kid, and her partner murdered them all.

ice190 said:
They were unable to rule out a paternal relation between the girls I think I remember.

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lawstudent said:
Agreed that it would not be unusual for a family to pack up and leave quickly from a trailer park, but since the police investigated it at the time, I imagine they asked people if a family had disappeared suddenly. While people don't always speak up or make the connection, if they were directly asked and it happened so close, I can't imagine people would totally dismiss it and not mention it, even if they thought the family was probably fine somewhere else. And if the killer moved too, it's not like they'd be terrified of him coming after them, and even if they had a general distrust of police, whether or not a family with a young girl(s) moved recently doesn't seem particularly juicy. I would assume that there is no connection because it is so far-fetched - I'd say oh yeah one lived over there if it would get the police to wrap up. At least one person would have brought it up if asked directly, I would bet. It just doesn't seem like particularly traceable or significant information to give. Plus the crime is so heinous that someone usually speaks up regardless of the feelings toward LE in such cases.
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Yes, but there was quite some time between when the family would have left and when the first set of remains were discovered. There could have been dozens of families who lived there for a while and moved on, with no reason to note their departure. Even people who might have remembered had moved on. The investigators did a pretty thorough job at the time, but there are so many holes, and so many ways people can disappear.
 
even more complicated, we have no idea if the woman and children ever did live in that area. It could just as easily be the reverse.

Women, children and perp leave some other area (or seem to) and perp shows up in Allenstown with no one accompanying him. He brings with him two drums already containing remains. They are dumped once he arrives and scopes out a convenient dump point.

Maybe even he was transient, not staying int eh area at all, but just dumping them during a stop over or brief visit to the area.
 
I mentioned way upthread that at that time in rural New Hampshire (which at the time was most of the state), illegal dumping of chemical waste from factories in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and even farther afield was rampant. You couldn't go into the woods in most spots without seeing one or more barrels rusting away. Usually it was a couple dozen together -- whatever fit on the back of a flatbed truck.

People did NOT open those barrels. You didn't want a face full of HCL or leather-dying chemicals or photography and lithography inks or any of the other nasty things that people knew they weren't supposed to throw away but didn't know what else to do with. And some of the "disposal" organizations were organized crime taking advantage of a temporary but lucrative market.

There was also local dumping. New Hampshire had some of its own factories and illegal disposal agencies.

So yeah. In that space behind the trailer park, there were likely many barrels, and they could have come from anywhere.

eta: for example, when the company I worked for in 1982 built a new facility on a property just over the MA border, they had to remove and dispose of around 500 barrels in three different dump sites before work could begin.
 
Did it say anywhere if they were doing isotope analysis to get a better idea of where they may have come from?
 
Still_Snarky said:
They Were Found Dead In Steel Drums 30 Years Ago. Who Are They?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...oman-3-children-found-in-drums_n_8545416.html
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Thank you! For those without time to read, it says that they've done isotope testing, and the results of this will be released on the 17th of November. Really hopeful for the results to be informative! Though form what I can find in previous articles, they already tried running isotope tests and didn't come up with anything useful about the adult woman. I wonder if the difference now is better isotope testing, or that they're testing the children as well, or more sophisticated analysis?
 
I'm going with the child that they weren't sure if the woman was related to, having been a stepdaughter. Going with the theory that they were killed by the woman's husband/boyfriend, perhaps the child's mother was deceased and that is why she wouldn't question where her child was.
 
That's a good possibility


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