NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

FiveFelines · Mar 7, 2015

Okay, so I sent in a tip to the NH Cold Case Unit this morning because the description of the carnival worker in that comment on the Oak Hill Research sits is spot-on with a man who is currently a suspect in another major case. I'll leave it at that for now, but the timeline, physical description, occupation, etc., line up with the man mentioned in the Oak Hill comment. Of course, we don't know if that comment is true, but if it is.... Wow.

squish · Mar 8, 2015

CarlK90245 said:
I thought it might be helpful to do more lifelike portrayals of what these four females might have looked like.

To get to an overall look for their faces, i am going with the theory that they were Albanian immigrants, as suggested by WS member RT51.

Looking at the facial structures depicted in the NCMEC recons, I do sort of get a Balkans vibe, particularly with the adult and the oldest girl. So I took the facial structures provided by NCMEC, and gave them typical Albanian faces. And just for good measure, I threw in a subtle Albanian flag image on the oldest girl's shirt, (But remember that there is no evidence that I know of to suggest that they are Albanian, and we should not presume that they are Albanian).

Keep in mind that these are just approximations of how these young ladies might have looked in life, and are not intended to be exact portrayals.

Thank you for these, they are very life-like.

Albanians tend to be very dark as they are descended from Turks, even more so than the rest of the Balkans as they are directly descended rather than admixture. Although a minority still look white, especially from the mountains.

Many East and North European groups can have the far eastern genetics that creates shovel incisors like those of the oldest child. For example, Hungarians are 13% Asiatic but most of them still look white. I think this is more likely for the family than Albanian, just because of the rarity of white-looking people among that community.

Shovel incisors can also come from Ashlenazi Jewish admixture, which has become common in the past century in much of Europe.

Roselvr · Mar 9, 2015

squish said:
Thank you for these, they are very life-like.

Albanians tend to be very dark as they are descended from Turks, even more so than the rest of the Balkans as they are directly descended rather than admixture. Although a minority still look white, especially from the mountains.

Many East and North European groups can have the far eastern genetics that creates shovel incisors like those of the oldest child. For example, Hungarians are 13% Asiatic but most of them still look white. I think this is more likely for the family than Albanian, just because of the rarity of white-looking people among that community.

Shovel incisors can also come from Ashlenazi Jewish admixture, which has become common in the past century in much of Europe.

So are you saying that you think they're Hungarian?

squish · Mar 9, 2015

No, I'm just commenting on the East European idea. They are unlikely to be Albanian, because they were described as white and all of them were fair hair. But the oldest child at least had to have some asiatic ancestry due to her teeth, which is why I suggested Hungarian, although they are far from the only European group with Eastern admixture

Roselvr · Mar 14, 2015

squish said:
No, I'm just commenting on the East European idea. They are unlikely to be Albanian, because they were described as white and all of them were fair hair. But the oldest child at least had to have some asiatic ancestry due to her teeth, which is why I suggested Hungarian, although they are far from the only European group with Eastern admixture

My ears perked up with the Hungarian suggestion because that was my thought when I saw the CT recons. My parents & aunt came over in the late 50's.

Copying over my post with their links

Roselvr said:
worked on their blurb today; added their links

VICTIM 1 - ADULT FEMALE - Unidentified White Female - Estimated age: 23-32 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'7"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Curly, light brown hair, approximately four inches in length

The victim was discovered on November 10, 1985 in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire
Estimated Date of Death: 1-4 years prior - Skeletal Remains - The victim was discovered on November 10, 1985 in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2174
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/799ufnh.html
_____________________________

VICTIM 2 - OLDEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 5-10 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 4'3"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Possibly Native. Dark blonde or light brown, fine hair. Double-pierced ears.
Dentals: Shovel shaped anterior dentition.
Estimated Date of Death: 1-4 years prior - Skeletal Remains - The victim was discovered on November 10, 1985 in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2173
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/800ufnh.html
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1100629
_____________________________

VICTIM 3 - MIDDLE AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 4-8 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 3'8"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown; 5 inches long.
Estimated Date of Death: 16-19 years prior
Skeletal Remains - The victim was discovered on May 9, 2000 in in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2175
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/802ufnh.html
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1100629
_____________________________

VICTIM 4 - YOUNGEST AGED GIRL - Estimated age: 1-3 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 2'5"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Fine blonde hair which was approximately 8 to 12 inches in length.
Estimated Date of Death: 16-19 years prior
Skeletal Remains - The victim was discovered on May 9, 2000 in in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2176
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/801ufnh.html
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1100629

Fuuro · Mar 16, 2015

Maybe this was a blended family? It sounds as if this woman and her 2 kids were killed by a husband/boyfriend and the other child could've been the husband's biological daughter. The oldest child would've been the woman's with another man, the middle would have been the man's child with another woman, and the youngest could've been the child of the man and the woman or just the woman? I fear that these kids and this woman were never reported missing in the first place...

Also, about the person who said she heard the murders, I'm really hoping that it's legitimate, but seeing as there are SO many cases where people come forward with information and it turns out to be not credible, I'm a bit skeptical. She said she lived in a trailer park - does this mean the murders took place in a trailer or near the trailer park? Sorry for the silly question.

I agree the mother and daughter number 1 look very European to me, especially the mother. I know a few Albanian people and the features match up pretty well.

Earth · Apr 10, 2015

I looked all over NamUs and in my opinion, this woman is either Patricia Spencer (disappeared 1969 with Pamela Hobley) or was never reported missing. Patricia has no DNA entered in CODIS and if the oldest and youngest child are related to the woman, but not the middle child, she could be the girl of another woman he had locked up.

Sabriel · Apr 21, 2015

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but I was looking through different missing persons and I came across Kelly, Kimberly and Elaine Yates. I don't believe they're a rule out. http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/601944/1

Sabriel · Apr 24, 2015

I came across the original sketch of the Unidentified woman in this case, and the similarity between that sketch and a photograph of Elaine C. Yates looks very similar to me.

Sabriel · Apr 24, 2015

Looking at the two younger unidentified children's Namus, I see that Kelly and Kimberly were ruled out. But the older child and woman's Namus do not show anyone of the Yates as being a rule out.

Earth · May 2, 2015

mrsmiller820 · May 8, 2015

Ok...I have struggled with the drastic differences between the adult Doe's original composite and the the new one. I decided to always keep the old one in the back of my mind, just in case. I found Eddy Segall yesterday, and there is very little information on her, however, she is in NAMUS and her ID # is 9042. She went missing at the age of 28, on June 16, 1977. I was really surprised when I saw the likeness with her and the original drawing. I was even more surprised when I mapped it out and she went missing less than an hour from where the Jane Doe's were found. I have been trying to find information on how DNA matches are handled through the NAMUS database. If a Jane Doe's DNA is entered and there is a missing person that matches, does it automatically search and flag the profile, or is it done manually? Any help you guys can give me would be much appreciated.

I hope the picture comes through ok!

ice190 · May 8, 2015

Carlene Brown went missing with a friend who was found murdered in their state, theorized by a local serial killer. Charlotte Brown (IMO think she's Strongsville Jane Doe) was likely killed by her husband who is thought to have killed his prior wife. Debra Kent is nearly confirmed to be a Bundy victim, where she disappeared was a handcuff key that Bundy likely used earlier that day. Rory Kesinger I've read is thought to be the Lady of the Dunes in MA, but I immediately thought of this case. **disregard, apparently DNA ruled that out.**

Also, Wow on Eddy Segall. If only there was information about children or relationships?

carbuff · May 8, 2015

mrsmiller820 said:
Ok...I have struggled with the drastic differences between the adult Doe's original composite and the the new one. I decided to always keep the old one in the back of my mind, just in case. I found Eddy Segall yesterday, and there is very little information on her, however, she is in NAMUS and her ID # is 9042. She went missing at the age of 28, on June 16, 1977. I was really surprised when I saw the likeness with her and the original drawing. I was even more surprised when I mapped it out and she went missing less than an hour from where the Jane Doe's were found. I have been trying to find information on how DNA matches are handled through the NAMUS database. If a Jane Doe's DNA is entered and there is a missing person that matches, does it automatically search and flag the profile, or is it done manually? Any help you guys can give me would be much appreciated.

View attachment 74437

I hope the picture comes through ok!

Eddie Segall went missing shortly before we moved to Nashua and people were still talking about it. It's not an area with a lot of homicides or missing people, so it got a lot of attention.

Here's a map https://goo.gl/maps/q517D that shows where she was living, the nearest I could get to the place the car was found, and the approximate location of the Allenstown deceased. Police seem convinced that her body is not far from where the car was dumped, possibly thrown into a swampy area that was much more extensive then that it is now.

Here's a zoomed in map: https://goo.gl/maps/yCkkg Parker Pond is on the left. The car was actually found quite near the pond, but Googlemaps doesn't know about the logging roads. It might be relevant that this area was also frequently used to dump barrels of waste in the 70's.

Her Charley and Doenetwork pages:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/segall_eddy.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2988dfnh.html

listing on the NH cold case website:
http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/victim-list/eddy-segall.htm

archived article from the Nashua paper around the time she disappeared:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=3HkNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6133,2342212&hl=en

2010 articles about reopening the case after the NH cold case unit was formed:

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news...is-probes-33-year-old-disappearance-case.html
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/902978-196/father-wants-no-pain.html

There are quite a few more from around December 2010, but they all say pretty much the same thing. I didn't find anything more recent.

I also didn't find anything whatsoever about family or possible relationships. The only relative that was mentioned was her father in Florida, and there's a hint that they had parted on bad terms, that's all.

Earth · May 27, 2015

It's pretty creepy how much she looks like JD. Have they done a DNA test? Someone should really tell NamUs.

carbuff · May 27, 2015

I don't know. I have a feeling they might not have looked at her because she apparently doesn't have kids. But on the other hand there seems to be almost nothing known about her, so who knows.

Shin Masamura · May 29, 2015

interesting thread, I was looking into another case and I came across this missing person. She looks exactly like Carl's reckon and her circumstances could add up and im not sure if anyone has mentioned her.. What do you all think?

Teresa Cupps
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1318dfok.html

Earth · May 29, 2015

On NamUs it says her DNA is available, so that probably means she's a rule-out. It's bets to ask, though.

FiveFelines · May 29, 2015

I think it depends on the type of DNA on file. I really think this woman and children were never reported missing, or at least aren't listed anywhere. JMO

Earth · May 30, 2015

NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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