Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #11 *Arrest*

[bstnh1]

I wouldn't put too much faith in some of the earlier actions of WN. Yes, he turned some pictures over and maybe he smashed a picture on the wall. But remember, this guy has a some serious mental issues and you cannot judge his behavior by comparing it to the standards for normal behavior. I simply do not think a man in his condition would be competent enough to commit a murder and cover up his tracks so well. If he was mentally alert enough to commit this crime, he certainly wouldn't be doing things to draw attention and suspicion toward himself.

 

[JeannieC]

Paranoid schizophrenia

Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff

Key symptoms
Delusions and hallucinations are the symptoms that make paranoid schizophrenia most distinct from other types of schizophrenia.
Delusions. In paranoid schizophrenia, a common delusion is that you're being singled out for harm. For instance, you may believe that the government is monitoring every move you make or that a co-worker is poisoning your lunch. You may also have delusions of grandeur — the belief that you can fly, that you're famous or that you have a relationship with a famous person, for example. You hold on to these false beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. Delusions can result in aggression or violence if you believe you must act in self-defense against those who want to harm you.
Auditory hallucinations. An auditory hallucination is the perception of sound — usually voices — that no one else hears. The sounds may be a single voice or many voices. These voices may talk either to you or to each other. The voices are usually unpleasant. They may make ongoing criticisms of what you're thinking or doing, or make cruel comments about your real or imagined faults. Voices may also command you to do things that can be harmful to yourself or to others. When you have paranoid schizophrenia, these voices seem real. You may talk to or shout at the voices.


Could he have taken her body to the river. IMO yes.

I'm not saying he did this, just that he is capable of doing it.

 

[sreshowtime]

WN's behavior was odd, but was that because he did something wrong, and his condition also contributed to the behavior.....or he was stressed, knowing he would be scrutinized once his condition became known, and that stress increased symptoms.

Could that be why he is scared, as his mother stated....because he is paranoid his condition will focused on?

 

[JeannieC]

WN's behavior was odd, but was that because he did something wrong, and his condition also contributed to the behavior.....or he was stressed, knowing he would be scrutinized once his condition became known, and that stress increased symptoms.

Could that be why he is scared, as his mother stated....because he is paranoid his condition will focused on?

His condition could make him fearful without all of this going on. I'm sure the stress hasn't helped. I don't know if he did anything wrong as far as Celina. He is the perfect "scapegoat" though.

I hope LE has some strong evidence on the person or persons who killed her. I guess time will tell.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Many times (since joining this websleuthing community) I have found myself doing online research into various crime statistics and behaviors -- looking up sex crime information, crimes against children, murder, poison and how to make chloroform, decomposition, toxicology -- and I have wondered what an outsider seeing these searches would think. I can easily imagine some faceless government agent, sitting in the basement of the Ministry of Truth, pouring over my web history and concluding that I am some kind of maniac.

I choose to dismiss these concerns, not because I believe they are invalid or silly (this is Patriot Act America after all), but because that is how I choose to live. The point is that I have felt these concerns, this paranioa, and I am not (no matter what my invisible friends say) a paranoid schitzophrenic.

If you have every felt a similar concern that someone might be watching, if you hesitated before looking up "How to make Chloroform" when you heard about this in the Anthony case, then imagine how you might feel if someone close to you had suddenly turned up missing, then murdered, and a hundred million people were looking at you as the primary suspect. Even if you weren't paranoid before you can bet this alone would drive you to it. I would question anyone who's stress level wasn't red-lined.

As for WN.... He has a diagnosed clinical mental illness that makes him more paranoid than normal, so we can assume that if a normal person would be freaking out a paranopid schitzo would be really freaking out.

Assume (for the sake of discussion) that WN is completely innocent. He is a middle aged guy with a serious disability. He is living with his mother, his new wife, her two daughters from a previous relationship, and the son of another ex-boyfriend. They are all crammed together in half a house, largely paid for with his disability check. But that's okay. He's got a wife, an adopted family, a home. He is finally, finally, starting to get his life in order. Then, one day, he goes to the basement to wake Celina for a hair appointment and she is not there.

And his entire world implodes.

How, exactly, would an innocent paranoid schitzophrenic act in the days and weeks that followed? What behavior would be normal and expected from anyone, mentally ill or not?

 

[sreshowtime]

Yeah it might be WN....or it might not be. Easy based on 'actions' to point that way... oddly, almost seems too easy. Makes me wonder how many people, in OR out of the household, were completely aware of his particular condition...and if it could be used to their 'advantage'.
That's why I am a thinking someone else. We shall see, I hope LE is making an iron clad case and has much more info than we are privy to.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Let's compare and contrast...

Mom:

* The one person we KNOW left the home that morning.
* Upon learning that her daughter was not in her room, Mom did not assume that Celina had snuck out to a friend's house, or to visit a boyfriend, or run away...
* Mom immediately concluded that Celina was the victim of a crime.
* Mom was so unhinged she was unable to communicate, even with the neighbor or to call the police.
* Mom immediately took to wrapping herself in blankets. Covering her head. And even recruited family and friends (on at least one occassion) to walk around with a large sheet to screen her from the eyes of the world.
* Despite have no disability, Mom took to riding around in a wheelchair.
* Refused to talk to the press and make a direct appeal to the public for eight weeks.
* Decided to ride around in a parade.
* Celina was (reportedly) found wrapped in a blanket!

WN:

* Upon discovering Celina was not in her room, he phoned mom then went back to playing with his computer
* Even later in the day, when asked what he would tell Celina, his comment "I would tell her to get her butt home" indicates that he believed she had run away and was fine. (Note: the quote above is approximate.)
* Over the days and weeks that followed, as the pressure mounted, his mental illness kicked in. He became increasingly unhinged. First, collapsing in his front yard, then (reported by one source) punching a photo of Celina, then admitting himself to a mental health facility for treatment.

To be clear: I am not suggesting EITHER of these two people did anything wrong! My point is that NORMAL is bloody hard to define, and that it is really incredibly easy to cherry-pick factoids and pile them up so that they suggest obvious guilt.

 

[deelytful1]

Let's compare and contrast...

Mom:

* The one person we KNOW left the home that morning.
* Upon learning that her daughter was not in her room, Mom did not assume that Celina had snuck out to a friend's house, or to visit a boyfriend, or run away...
* Mom immediately concluded that Celina was the victim of a crime.
* Mom was so unhinged she was unable to communicate, even with the neighbor or to call the police.
* Mom immediately took to wrapping herself in blankets. Covering her head. And even recruited family and friends (on at least one occassion) to walk around with a large sheet to screen her from the eyes of the world.
* Despite have no disability, Mom took to riding around in a wheelchair.
* Refused to talk to the press and make a direct appeal to the public for eight weeks.
* Decided to ride around in a parade.
* Celina was (reportedly) found wrapped in a blanket!

WN:

* Upon discovering Celina was not in her room, he phoned mom then went back to playing with his computer
* Even later in the day, when asked what he would tell Celina, his comment "I would tell her to get her butt home" indicates that he believed she had run away and was fine. (Note: the quote above is approximate.)
* Over the days and weeks that followed, as the pressure mounted, his mental illness kicked in. He became increasingly unhinged. First, collapsing in his front yard, then (reported by one source) punching a photo of Celina, then admitting himself to a mental health facility for treatment.

To be clear: I am not suggesting EITHER of these two people did anything wrong! My point is that NORMAL is bloody hard to define, and that it is really incredibly easy to cherry-pick factoids and pile them up so that they suggest obvious guilt.

If Celina was a momma's girl and was not prone to disappear and go to a friend's house on a whim (especially BEFORE 8:30 in the AM which is quite early to be visiting), the Mom's reaction was totally normal. She also didn't seem like a woman who was very strong emotionally IMO so the crying jag was probably her normal reaction to most stress. My son would NEVER ever leave the house without telling me (he's 12) and if I woke up one morning and he was completely missing, no note, no text, nothing... I would definitely be freaking out.

 

[Chris_Texas]

If Celina was a momma's girl and was not prone to disappear and go to a friend's house on a whim (especially BEFORE 8:30 in the AM which is quite early to be visiting), the Mom's reaction was totally normal. She also didn't seem like a woman who was very strong emotionally IMO so the crying jag was probably her normal reaction to most stress. My son would NEVER ever leave the house without telling me (he's 12) and if I woke up one morning and he was completely missing, no note, no text, nothing... I would definitely be freaking out.

I would assume that any parent would be extremely concerned and likely angry. I assume most would believe that the child they had seen safely tucked away in bed the night before had snuck out or run away -- particularly when we know that a sibling was spending the night elsewhere as well.

Again though, the point of the above comparisson is not to attack or accuse Celina's mother, but to illustrate that "normal" is subjective at best, and when we are talking about second and third hand observations and rumors (as in the case of most of the stories we have heard about WNs behavior), not even that reliable.

Sadly, now we are in the middle of the week, and still nothing new to report.

 

[Texsun]

I keep thinking about LN's strong statement at the end of her interview when she said "you think your kids are safe in their own home, they're not"

I also question whether WN really has the Schizo Para. Anyone can be told they have something and anyone can tell someone they hear voices and on and on. Evidently he can't be too far gone or the mental hospital would not have released him after 30 days. Men & Women have wanted out of the military and lied or faked illnesses in order to be discharged honorably. <modsnip>

 

[k4kathy]

I keep thinking about LN's strong statement at the end of her interview when she said "you think your kids are safe in their own home, they're not"

I also question whether WN really has the Schizo Para. Anyone can be told they have something and anyone can tell someone they hear voices and on and on. Evidently he can't be too far gone or the mental hospital would not have released him after 30 days. Men & Women have wanted out of the military and lied or faked illnesses in order to be discharged honorably. <modsnip>.

Texsun, I agree with you 100%.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I keep thinking about LN's strong statement at the end of her interview when she said "you think your kids are safe in their own home, they're not"

I also question whether WN really has the Schizo Para. Anyone can be told they have something and anyone can tell someone they hear voices and on and on. Evidently he can't be too far gone or the mental hospital would not have released him after 30 days. Men & Women have wanted out of the military and lied or faked illnesses in order to be discharged honorably. <modsnip>

Wow. That is quite an accusation to make there.

 

[Gardenlady]

:wave: Still waiting for answers about Celina!

 

[sreshowtime]

I hope and pray whomever is responsible, or has specific knowledge to share, is miserable and being tormented by guilt and will slip up and spill the proverbial beans. NOW

 

[bstnh1]

I keep thinking about LN's strong statement at the end of her interview when she said "you think your kids are safe in their own home, they're not"

I also question whether WN really has the Schizo Para. Anyone can be told they have something and anyone can tell someone they hear voices and on and on. Evidently he can't be too far gone or the mental hospital would not have released him after 30 days. Men & Women have wanted out of the military and lied or faked illnesses in order to be discharged honorably. <modsnip>

The military runs a pretty tight ship and I doubt they hand out medical discharges just because someone claims to be a little batty.

 

[bstnh1]

Many times (since joining this websleuthing community) I have found myself doing online research into various crime statistics and behaviors -- looking up sex crime information, crimes against children, murder, poison and how to make chloroform, decomposition, toxicology -- and I have wondered what an outsider seeing these searches would think. I can easily imagine some faceless government agent, sitting in the basement of the Ministry of Truth, pouring over my web history and concluding that I am some kind of maniac.

I choose to dismiss these concerns, not because I believe they are invalid or silly (this is Patriot Act America after all), but because that is how I choose to live. The point is that I have felt these concerns, this paranioa, and I am not (no matter what my invisible friends say) a paranoid schitzophrenic.

If you have every felt a similar concern that someone might be watching, if you hesitated before looking up "How to make Chloroform" when you heard about this in the Anthony case, then imagine how you might feel if someone close to you had suddenly turned up missing, then murdered, and a hundred million people were looking at you as the primary suspect. Even if you weren't paranoid before you can bet this alone would drive you to it. I would question anyone who's stress level wasn't red-lined.

As for WN.... He has a diagnosed clinical mental illness that makes him more paranoid than normal, so we can assume that if a normal person would be freaking out a paranopid schitzo would be really freaking out.

Assume (for the sake of discussion) that WN is completely innocent. He is a middle aged guy with a serious disability. He is living with his mother, his new wife, her two daughters from a previous relationship, and the son of another ex-boyfriend. They are all crammed together in half a house, largely paid for with his disability check. But that's okay. He's got a wife, an adopted family, a home. He is finally, finally, starting to get his life in order. Then, one day, he goes to the basement to wake Celina for a hair appointment and she is not there.

And his entire world implodes.

How, exactly, would an innocent paranoid schitzophrenic act in the days and weeks that followed? What behavior would be normal and expected from anyone, mentally ill or not?

Two words.......Great Post!!!

 

[k4kathy]

Wow. That is quite an accusation to make there.

I see no part of Texsun's post anything close to an accusation. This is solely Texsun's opinion( mine too, since I agree with Texsun 101%).
Big big diference in accusing and giving one's opinion. : )

 

[Chris_Texas]

I see no part of Texsun's post anything close to an accusation. This is solely Texsun's opinion( mine too, since I agree with Texsun 101%).
Big big diference in accusing and giving one's opinion. : )

You missed the pre-edit version of the post.

 

[Chris_Texas]

My suspicion is that the police have had the tox reports back for a couple weeks and the announcements this week were driven not by new developments, but by Mom's visit to the press. My reasoning? The AG's office claimed that they were expecting the tox results back a couple weeks ago, and I believe that's when they got them back. Note that they also stopped giving pressers at this time.

It seems that the police did exactly what I cynically predicted they would do following mom's interview. They called in mom and let her in one a few more "insider" details, making her part of their team, while telling her that as one of them now, an insider, she couldn't reveal this new information without messing up the case. Then they went to the press themselves, announced that the tox results were back, that they now see this case as a homicide, and no, no more questions, thank you very much.

I understand that some here have faith in this AAG -- she's sneaky and all that. This is a sentiment I do not share; I am more results oriented. Either the police have evidence or they don't. If they don't, sitting on what they do have does little more than move the case out of the public's eye.

In my inexpert opinion the BEST way to move this case forward is transparency. The public might very well have the missing pieces of the puzzle, there might be a thousand critical clues nestled in the memories of the locals. Except those locals don't know that the information they have, the things they know and saw, are important to this case.

Which is not to say that I believe the police are obligated to release every detail. It is reasonable to withold information known only to the killer that cannot possibly offer clues as to the killer's identity -- as a few details like these could help seperate a real confession from a false one.

As for the rest, not so much. How Celina's body was discovered, was it dressed or wrapped and in what, what drugs if any were present, keeping these details hidden doesn't help anyone but the criminal. Releasing them MIGHT help jog someone's memory and move the case forward. Or not.

At worst some sordid details are made available and a murdered girl's final hours and days become the topic of local conversation. At best a murderer recieves the justice he or she deserves and more innocent lives perhaps saved.

Again, my opinion, but to me it seems very simple: the AG's office needs to either make an arrest or stop playing BS games with the family and community.

 

[gnomony]

Which is not to say that I believe the police are obligated to release every detail. It is reasonable to withold information known only to the killer that cannot possibly offer clues as to the killer's identity -- as a few details like these could help seperate a real confession from a false one.

Trouble is, LE never can know what it needed to withhold except in retrospect.