NH NH - Elizabeth Marriott, 19, Durham, 9 Oct 2012 - # 6 *S. Mazzaglia guilty*

[minor4th]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking during this trial due to the time difference. I only get to watch the first hour of trial each day & have to rely on archived video for the rest ,when I can, I have watched 70% of Kat on the stand. The urge to leave my thoughts are too great to dismiss so here I go LOL. Kat, what a piece of work, we are yet to hear the truth from her but I do believe her lies have elements of truth in them, unfortunately I don't believe either Kat or Seth will ever reveal what really happened that night. Now onto Attorney Barth, can't stand the guy, gives me the creeps. I find him rude, aggressive & obnoxious. His courtroom demeanour is offensive, he constantly interrupts the judge, the prosecutor & the witnesses. This judge needs to pull him into line, as right now he is prancing around as if he owns the court. The way he slams down documents or snatches documents from the witness is disgusting & I would not be surprised if someone on the jury dislikes his manner as much as I do, he can tone it down & still be just as effective. I'm not a Kat believer, but I question the ethics of Barth's legal office & their dealings with Kat. She came to them for legal advise, coaxed to talk to them by Seth's dad, everyone involved was interested in looking after Seth's interests. How on earth was she not advised not to talk to them without seeking her own legal advise. Barth claimed that he advised her they couldn't act on her behalf because they were representing Seth, that should have been the end of their discussion, period. Had this happened over here, the lawyer involved would have refused to go any further because of the conflict of interest. Yet they talked to her for hours without any legal advise, then had her return for a video taped session where they even asked her to do a demonstration. if I was her mum I would be outraged, that whole process just appears to be so unethical to me. Sorry for the long post but I don't know when I will be able to get on to discuss next.

Barth should not have talked to her at all, knowing she was a potential suspect with interests directly adverse to his client. It is unethical - and in my state it would be grounds for disciplinary action against him

 

[04009margaret]

Barth should not have talked to her at all, knowing she was a potential suspect with interests directly adverse to his client. It is unethical - and in my state it would be grounds for disciplinary action against him

Thankyou Minor, I was hoping it wasn't just my warped impression.

 

[04009margaret]

The judge having let the jury view the video of Kat & Barth's investigator, now he needs to let the jury see the full police video of Seth's confession up to the point he invokes his right to an attorney

 

[geevee]

Barth should not have talked to her at all, knowing she was a potential suspect with interests directly adverse to his client. It is unethical - and in my state it would be grounds for disciplinary action against him

As far as my undertsanding, Seth had not chosen Barth as his attorney at that point and had no obligation to Seth (or Kat for that matter), Seth was still deciding on who would represent him (according to the testimony elicited from Kat). I was wondering why he can question her on the statement she gave them and show the video, but the jury apparently can't read the whole statement (shown only as a credibility of witness issue and not for substantive value), it seems to be evidence in the case, is it merely because she's a witness and not a defendant? I'd like to hear or read the entire thing as I think it's the most amount of truth to what happened as we'll ever know.

 

[geevee]

P.S. If Seth hadn't gone with Barth, I wonder what would have happened to her statement to him?

 

[minor4th]

As far as my undertsanding, Seth had not chosen Barth as his attorney at that point and had no obligation to Seth (or Kat for that matter), Seth was still deciding on who would represent him (according to the testimony elicited from Kat). I was wondering why he can question her on the statement she gave them and show the video, but the jury apparently can't read the whole statement (shown only as a credibility of witness issue and not for substantive value), it seems to be evidence in the case, is it merely because she's a witness and not a defendant? I'd like to hear or read the entire thing as I think it's the most amount of truth to what happened as we'll ever know.

Throughout this cross examination, Barth continually mentions that he told Kat they could not advise her or help her because they represented Seth - and they could not reveal what Seth had said to them. I think an attorney client relationship with Seth had already been established at that point.

 

[minor4th]

P.S. If Seth hadn't gone with Barth, I wonder what would have happened to her statement to him?

Nothing.

 

[Lori59]

The judge having let the jury view the video of Kat & Barth's investigator, now he needs to let the jury see the full police video of Seth's confession up to the point he invokes his right to an attorney

If memory serves me right.....judge already ruled that they did not read SM his rights so it won't be coming in.

 

[minor4th]

As far as my undertsanding, Seth had not chosen Barth as his attorney at that point and had no obligation to Seth (or Kat for that matter), Seth was still deciding on who would represent him (according to the testimony elicited from Kat). I was wondering why he can question her on the statement she gave them and show the video, but the jury apparently can't read the whole statement (shown only as a credibility of witness issue and not for substantive value), it seems to be evidence in the case, is it merely because she's a witness and not a defendant? I'd like to hear or read the entire thing as I think it's the most amount of truth to what happened as we'll ever know.

There will be an instruction from the judge that the jury cannot consider the prior statement to Barth as substantive evidence of the truth of what happened - they can only consider it to determine the credibility and reliability of Kats testimony.

I believe that Kat was lying to Barth at that time - especially since that story contained known lies, like Andi and Paul driving them home. She had already lied to them by giving the first false account of ghosting and such.

I think her testimony is essentially true - its not like shes painting herself in an innocent or sympathetic light; she has admitted to helping murder Lizzie! (By continuing to strangle her with the rope and placing bags over her head) while she was still alive. She has complete immunity - so she could just admit to commiting the murder on her own, and she cannot be charged or convicted of any further crimes.

Besides, her testimony is essentially corroborated by Seths own confessions,not to mention his threatening and intimations of terrible consequences when he is not pleased with Kat. Seth is an evil, destructive force who took control of Kat when she was very young and very maleable and vulnerable. It was a totally sick relationship, and I believe that in the midst of it Kat would do anything to please Seth. He even punished her for not offering him a stand in sex slave during her 2 week absence. His messages to her are consistently menacing and threatening - I believe she was scared of him and perhaps misinterpreted her own fear as excitement or even an acceptable by product of the lifestyle.

Just some thoughts

 

[minor4th]

If memory serves me right.....judge already ruled that they did not read SM his rights so it won't be coming in.

He has suppressed portions of the confession and allowed portions. I do not think we have seen the end of this issue though. The confession was suppressed upon the Defenses motion, but now the defense wants to use portions of the confession in their own case in chief. If they do, I believe it will open the door for the prosecution to use the remainder of the interrogations in rebuttal. This is assuming the defendant takes the stand.

We shall see

 

[04009margaret]

If memory serves me right.....judge already ruled that they did not read SM his rights so it won't be coming in.

I may be wrong, but I think there was an article posted on here where there was a period of close to 2 hours between the time his rights were read to him & the time he invoked his rights to an attorney.

 

[Lori59]

So as not to rely on my memory...Here's a pretty good article about the statements and rulings so far of SM.
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140524/GJNEWS_01/140529549/-1/fosnews010116

 

[Jewels53]

There will be an instruction from the judge that the jury cannot consider the prior statement to Barth as substantive evidence of the truth of what happened - they can only consider it to determine the credibility and reliability of Kats testimony.

I believe that Kat was lying to Barth at that time - especially since that story contained known lies, like Andi and Paul driving them home. She had already lied to them by giving the first false account of ghosting and such.

I think her testimony is essentially true - its not like shes painting herself in an innocent or sympathetic light; she has admitted to helping murder Lizzie! (By continuing to strangle her with the rope and placing bags over her head) while she was still alive. She has complete immunity - so she could just admit to commiting the murder on her own, and she cannot be charged or convicted of any further crimes.

Besides, her testimony is essentially corroborated by Seths own confessions,not to mention his threatening and intimations of terrible consequences when he is not pleased with Kat. Seth is an evil, destructive force who took control of Kat when she was very young and very maleable and vulnerable. It was a totally sick relationship, and I believe that in the midst of it Kat would do anything to please Seth. He even punished her for not offering him a stand in sex slave during her 2 week absence. His messages to her are consistently menacing and threatening - I believe she was scared of him and perhaps misinterpreted her own fear as excitement or even an acceptable by product of the lifestyle.

Just some thoughts

BBM

This is correct as I believe the judge has stated this several times when the prosecutor has objected. It is only to the credibility to the witness not as to fact.

To your first comment on this thread about attorney Barth for the defense:

Right now this guy is not defending his client, he is defending himself and taking this all way too personally .

This was by you Minor4th.

I don't know how to double quote. sorry

Anyway this is so true as to what Barth is doing, I couldn't quite put my words together. It sounds like he is trying to qualify himself. It shouldn't take 9 day to impeach a witness if you are good at it. Kat is doing a great job at sticking to he GJ testimony.

IMO

 

[AnnieMagnolia]

And that "I still really do not have a good grasp of what happened" is exactly what Barth is hoping for...reasonable doubt = client free.

I am hoping that this jury doesn't feel the need to know exactly how Lizzi died or why, just that she was murdered in that apartment by those two evil people and disposed of by the same. If there was any truth to this being an accidental death, there would not be the statements pointing the finger at Roberta and her friend or Kat pointing the finger at SM.

I think when people lie, and there is a lot of that going on here, that the truth is way worse than the worst lie you have heard. No one is going to make up a story that is worse than the truth, do you think?

 

[AnnieMagnolia]

I was under the impression that Kat's most recent story, to the GJ and here in this case was that she was the innocent, scared submissive, so embarrassed by her own nudity and that she put the bags over Lizzi's head after she felt for a pulse and found none. She admitted that she felt Lizzi was dead. She admits to being the one who dumps the body, but why? She described a scene where she was doing the heavy lifting because SM was too tired, couldn't do it. I didn't find her testimony to be believable on this last accounting of events of that night.

I don't think she could admit to killing Lizzi and get off on the murder. JMHO

 

[geevee]

Throughout this cross examination, Barth continually mentions that he told Kat they could not advise her or help her because they represented Seth - and they could not reveal what Seth had said to them. I think an attorney client relationship with Seth had already been established at that point.

While Barth does say they told her they could not help her, he also has her admit/explain that Seth was still in the process of choosing an attorney at that time, there was a phone call or some communication he mentions that proves he wasn't Seth's attorney then.

 

[geevee]

There will be an instruction from the judge that the jury cannot consider the prior statement to Barth as substantive evidence of the truth of what happened - they can only consider it to determine the credibility and reliability of Kats testimony.

I believe that Kat was lying to Barth at that time - especially since that story contained known lies, like Andi and Paul driving them home. She had already lied to them by giving the first false account of ghosting and such.

I think her testimony is essentially true - its not like shes painting herself in an innocent or sympathetic light; she has admitted to helping murder Lizzie! (By continuing to strangle her with the rope and placing bags over her head) while she was still alive. She has complete immunity - so she could just admit to commiting the murder on her own, and she cannot be charged or convicted of any further crimes.

Besides, her testimony is essentially corroborated by Seths own confessions,not to mention his threatening and intimations of terrible consequences when he is not pleased with Kat. Seth is an evil, destructive force who took control of Kat when she was very young and very maleable and vulnerable. It was a totally sick relationship, and I believe that in the midst of it Kat would do anything to please Seth. He even punished her for not offering him a stand in sex slave during her 2 week absence. His messages to her are consistently menacing and threatening - I believe she was scared of him and perhaps misinterpreted her own fear as excitement or even an acceptable by product of the lifestyle.

Just some thoughts

The judge has been instructing the jury all along about her statement to the defense, he was very clear when he allowed them to have the transcript to read particular lines that were being corrected on the video of Kat in the defense's office. If you haven't seen that portion of the trial, you should look up the archive at WAT or Court Chatter, you'll see a marked difference in her demeanor on the stand and back then when she thought she couldn't get in any trouble for admitting she accidentally caused Lizzie's death.

Whether or not it was an accident I have grave doubts, apparently she says in that statement that she came out of the bathroom and saw Seth and Lizzie having sex, I'm personally starting to think that's when it stopped being fun and games to her and she decided to 'dominate' Lizzie and may have intentionally suffocated or strangled her (because Lizzie was supposed to be 'hers' and not Seth's).

That would also match the timeline of her death being after 10:30 and around the time of a neighbor hearing a scream followed by a loud male voice. That testimony, plus the physcial evidence is yet to come, so opinions could change, but at this moment, with everything I've seen so far, that's what I feel likely happened, if I believe what (or most of what) we've heard is contained in Kat's statement to the defense.

I really, really want Seth to testify.

 

[SurfieTX]

I think if Seth testifies, there's a real good chance he will walk. All he has to do is blame Kat and she's already proven to the jury that she's a liar. There's his reasonable doubt, right there. Of course, that depends on what the other evidence shows that we have not seen yet.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Lizzie Marriott

Like a lamb to the slaughter...

 

[HauntsForHope]

Combined timeline
Oct 9, 2012

5:44 BA to LM
I can exlpain it to you later if you want,. How is your lab?

5:49 LM to BA
Hasn't started yet

6:14 BA to LM
Haha oh, ok, thought it started at 5.

7:03 KM to SM
Heading for a shower. You staying late?

7:20 KM to LM
Hopping in the shower. Be out in 20 min just
in case you get out early. (LM in class)

7:24 SM to KM
Not sure yet (about staying late at work)

7:51 Best Buy sign out SM

7:58 KM to SM
I took a completely natural ingredient shower.

8:00 e-z pass dover northbound SM

8:20 sm arrives at home

8:21 LM to KM
Okie dokie, just got out of class.

8:22 KM to LM
Sweet, see you soon.

8:50 BA to LM
You should do more poetry baby. you're good with words

8:51 LM to BA
I can be eloquent when i want to be.

8:51 LM to KM
I'm at the outer door

8:52 LM to BA
Aha thank you muffin

8:53 BA to LM
Aha yes you def can be

8:55 LM to BA
you're so cute.

8:58 BA to LM
text no reply

8:59 BA to LM
text no reply

9:06 BA to LM
text no reply

9:54 AF to KM
I'm at my grandpas tonight.

9:54 KM to Af
so, no hangout?

10:11 Last ping, at dover tower, for LM's phone.

(near the end of the card game, switch to watching movie.)

10:28 sm to km
We painting tonight?

10:29 km to sm
Your decision I guess, if you have a plan. nervous.

Movie ending

10:40 -10:45 Neighbor heard a scream and then a mans loud voice.

10:47 call to rg
10:48 call to rg
10:49 call to rg

11:02 RG E-z pass arrives in Dover

RG and PH arrive at apartment.

11:59 Rg E-z pass to Rochester

Midnight
KM sent text to LM '...fell asleep, are you still coming?'
LM's body taken to Pierce Island in her own car.
Body thrown in the river from Overlook Point
(Hair found at scene matched to LM thru Mothers DNA
Beaded necklace found at the cliff.
Drag marks along trail seen next day by witness)

Left park in LM's car
Suitcase thrown in Pease hotel dumpster
LM phone and GPS destroyed.
On drive back to Dover, threw phone and gps off a bridge

3-4 am
Drove LM's car to UNH and left it there, by the horse barns.
Threw bag of items and tarp in dumpster by fire station.
Threw other bags in dumpster by horse barns.
Threw some bags in dumpster behind a restaurant.

Walked back to apartment. (took 2 hours)

6am
Sm and KM arrive back at apartment.

Showered/changed and threw clothes, boots, gloves and other items (LM's sweatshirt) in the dumpster behind the apartment.

Went to sleep.

1st cover up lie - She never arrived.
2nd cover up lie - She died accidently.