NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[PaulR]

Unless she planned on jumping off a mountain. I think if she did commit sucide, she wanted to do it in an area where she would not be found.

And the best evidence we have on where she was going was the White Mountains from that book in her car.

 

[Moreack]

And the best evidence we have on where she was going was the White Mountains from that book in her car.

But as far as we know, she didn't get there. The crash was far away from the mountains even if her intention was to die.

Is Fred driving really a thought? Does he have an alibi? As strange as we see him I have a hard time imagining that he was driving her to her death or an abortion. I think he would talk more and look for her less if he was the last person with her alive.

 

[Ibiz]

And the best evidence we have on where she was going was the White Mountains from that book in her car.

And there's a good chance that she made there.

 

[Shelley530]

Yes I agree with this for sure. I think people get caught up in search stats and details that really mean nothing, they overlook the human side of the story.
She was probably in shock and really scared. I think it is obvious that yes she did want to remove herself from the accident scene for whatever reason. She was a young girl in a strange place to her, why would she run in the dark, cold woods?
Trying to put myself in her place, I would never get in a car with a stranger but in that situation you may have to risk it. If anything to get to the nearest store or a place with cell service. Or maybe even someone's house to make a call.
No one has made a rational argument on why she would run in the woods and somehow die. Just a few thoughts.

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I personally have been in trouble with the law/alcohol related and have been on probation. Back in the day, I thought I was invincible. If I were to be drinking and driving and wreck my vehicle: I would have tried to get away. I would have either jumped into the car with someone I did not know or I would have ran into the woods until I felt it was safe to get away (in fact at times, I have done both those things). Depending on how long you are in the woods, the temps alone could kill you or make your limbs go numb/frostbite. I also have a history of working with patients with head injuries. The air bags deployed on her car and she had a busted windshield. If she had a head injury (actual bleed or even just concussed) on top of drinking, she would be even more confused, not thinking rationally, scared, impulsive, etc. IMO

 

[PaulR]

But as far as we know, she didn't get there. The crash was far away from the mountains even if her intention was to die.

Is Fred driving really a thought? Does he have an alibi? As strange as we see him I have a hard time imagining that he was driving her to her death or an abortion. I think he would talk more and look for her less if he was the last person with her alive.

I think the last person we know of to see her alive was the person who stopped and wanted to call a tow for her, when she refused, not Fred. Maybe the person who spotted who he thought was Maura walking along the road but we're not 100% sure that is Maura.

If her intent was to die, preferably in the White Mountains, she may have decided that with the car crash making it impossible to proceed on her own, that a cubby hole in the nearby woods would do just fine. SAR folks typically look for people who want to be found and take actions that are consistent with that - heading towards a road if one is visible, heading towards water/downhill because we are taught that is where you go to find civilization, etc. Police tend to look for people who are trying to escape. If Maura wanted to commit suicide, she would take actions to make her body more difficult to find because she would not want to be rescued before succumbing.

I take a similar view of the Bill Ewasko search that has been unsuccessful so far even with better data and a lot more searches (and terrain a lot friendlier for searching) - he didn't want to be found because they have looked literally everywhere a person would was lost and wanted to be rescued would go if in a similar situation.

It's also possible that she just didn't want to be found because she didn't want to get arrested for a DUI and get into more trouble, and while trying to hide from searchers, got into a bad situation that she was unable to escape from and the searchers had already moved on by that point so she was unable to call for help.

 

[Ozoner]

And there's a good chance that she made there.

We've talked about why she might go into the woods: if she could see Mount Moosilauka on the horizon, she might have made a beeline for it.
It's possible that she could have made it on foot, but even if she was trying to commit suicide in a particular spot, she might not have made it all the way.

 

[Caffeine]

NH may be a small state but she may not have been familiar with that specific road, at least driving it alone compared to having her father drive her (who was probably driving during the day, and not driving intoxicated.)

If anything I think her driving mishap was alcohol related and not due to her being a poor driver. Granted, none of us know her driving history but living up there you learn to drive in bad conditions pretty quickly.

 

[avamonroe]

She had her Third auto accident as a result of alcohol in less than 3 weeks.

Third? I believe the one in NH was her second?

I would not rule out that she could have gone to NH to commit suicide - certainly, she was going through a hard time. However, we have no indication that she carried on with her plan after her accident.

Furthermore, her case is currently being investigated by:

• New Hampshire Cold Case Unit
• New Hampshire State Police
• Attorney Generals Office

Here is a description of the Cold Case Unit: “The Unit compiled the first comprehensive, state-wide list of unsolved homicides, suspicious deaths, and missing persons cases, which are suspected to be homicides, which includes approximately 120 victims.” - Source

Another quote: “Her disappearance is being treated as suspicious.” - Source

The Attorney General’s office became involved in the case 10 days after she disappeared.

Its Homicide Unit is headed by Jeff Strelzin.

“As the chief of the Department of Justice’s Homicide Unit, he is the first person police officials contact when investigating suspicious deaths.” Source 1 & Source 2

All this tells me that the police have some sort of indication of what happened (spoiler alert: it wasn't died of exposure in the woods), but not enough to proceed.

 

[leilarose68]

When I try to put myself in Maura's shoes & into her psychology, I would see myself running as far away from the accident to distance myself from it and go get help as soon as possible. If she went deep into the forest she wouldn't even have been able to tell when the police arrived & wouldn't have known when to come out again and I just think her outdoors experience would have steered her away from that fatal option given the weather conditions. Even if someone is suicidal it's still a difficult and unpleasant way to die. There would have been very low visibility and it would have seemed very scary and hopeless in there IMO. I think after she crashed her instinct was fight-flight and survival. Of course, there are so many ways to perceive her mental state at that time and speculate. I just see her running to safety until someone offered her a ride to get the hell out of there.

I don't think I would have taken the ride from Butch either because he worked for the school system so would have been too 'official' to trust, and his imposing stature would have scared me a bit. I also just would have wanted a little more time to figure out what to do by myself.

We also have to remember that Maura was a natural runner & it is a very reasonable assumption to say that's her instinctual response to a traumatic situation like this. At least, it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Ozoner]

All this tells me that the police have some sort of indication of what happened (spoiler alert: it wasn't died of exposure in the woods), but not enough to proceed.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

I would caution against jumping to conclusions.

Homicide is one of the possibilities, therefore homicide is suspected, but so is suicide, and so is natural death. We know that one man tried to implicate his brother: that accusation is enough to classify Maura's disappearance as a suspected homicide.

Whenever a case goes cold, people always claim that the police know what happened but just can't prove it. I guess it's comforting to believe that, but oftentimes the police just don't know. They may be working with several theories. For argument's sake, let's say that murder is their leading theory: That doesn't mean that they're correct.

I won't be surprised if Claude Moulton is eventually charged with Maura's murder, but I also won't be surprised if a hiker finds Maura's remains deep in the woods and without any signs of trauma.

 

[sony12]

but I also won't be surprised if a hiker finds Maura's remains deep in the woods and without any signs of trauma.

If say she did freely choose to kill herself in the woods by this point (going on fifteen years later) wouldn't it be difficult to find remains as wildlife likely would have scavenged the remains off and the remaining bones would be scattered and buried?

 

[leilarose68]

If say she did freely choose to kill herself in the woods by this point (going on fifteen years later) wouldn't it be difficult to find remains as wildlife likely would have scavenged the remains off and the remaining bones would be scattered and buried?

If Maura killed herself in the woods wouldn't we have found bottles of alcohol, pills or bits of clothing and her backpack?

 

[MaggieSky]

If Maura killed herself in the woods wouldn't we have found bottles of alcohol, pills or bits of clothing and her backpack?

Yes....I believe after almost 14 years that someone would have found her backpack, shoes, or clothing. Things have a way of being found.
Even if her bones were scattered or not visible.
I personally do not believe that she was so far in the wild terrain that searchers, hikers, landowners, domestic animals, or hunters.....someone... would not have come across something. No matter how far away she was from her car.

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[Ozoner]

If say she did freely choose to kill herself in the woods by this point (going on fifteen years later) wouldn't it be difficult to find remains as wildlife likely would have scavenged the remains off and the remaining bones would be scattered and buried?

Animals can scatter remains and gnaw bones, but skeletal remains have been found decades later. This German man's bones were found in a tree 29 years after he hanged himself:
https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/129813-suicide-victims-bones-found-hanging-in-a-tree/
I recall another case where an unidentified skeleton found in the woods was suspected to be that of a man who had shot himself 70 or 80 years prior.

If Maura killed herself in the woods wouldn't we have found bottles of alcohol, pills or bits of clothing and her backpack?

Those things could be stumbled upon decades from now.

Yes....I believe after almost 14 years that someone would have found her backpack, shoes, or clothing. Things have a way of being found.
Even if her bones were scattered or not visible.
I personally do not believe that she was so far in the wild terrain that searchers, hikers, landowners, domestic animals, or hunters.....someone... would not have come across something. No matter how far away she was from her car.

It's only been 13 years; many sets of remains have been found after a much greater span of years.

 

[leilarose68]

Animals can scatter remains and gnaw bones, but skeletal remains have been found decades later. This German man's bones were found in a tree 29 years after he hanged himself:
https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/129813-suicide-victims-bones-found-hanging-in-a-tree/
I recall another case where an unidentified skeleton found in the woods was suspected to be that of a man who had shot himself 70 or 80 years prior.

Those things could be stumbled upon decades from now.

It's only been 13 years; many sets of remains have been found after a much greater span of years.

But how quickly did searches for those bodies begin, how extensive were those searches and under what conditions?

 

[leilarose68]

You edited your comment after my comment... you should have indicated that Ozoner; there wasn't information about how/when the bodies were discovered before I asked which makes my comment look silly. And just because it's HAPPENED that remains have been found many years later in the woods does not mean it's common or likely at all. I also wonder about the searches for those people you mentioned and how extensive they were. I don't imagine that footprints in the snow leading into the woods were checked 1.5 days after their disappearance...

 

[nickelcreek24]

Question. I saw in the Wikipedia article that a witness reported seeing a police SUV with Maura's car at 7:37 p.m. Could this have been a county deputy responding to the neighbor's call at 7:27? Is it possible this person is involved in her disappearance? I apologize if this has been discussed. This just stood out to me as strange.

 

[Caffeine]

But how quickly did searches for those bodies begin, how extensive were those searches and under what conditions?

All good points as there really is no definitive data on scenarios like this, at least that I've come across. I will say, based on everything I've read, I feel pretty confident that the basic area of the crash was searched quite well with no trace of Maura found at all, not even questionable belongings that may have been hers.

Of course, there is no perfect search. Humans make mistakes, so there is no 100% certainty with this, but then again there's no strong indication of anything with this case.

I will say, I don't believe she's in the woods in the immediate vicinity of the crash site. Could a series of events occurred that put her much farther away to perish in the elements? Possibly, but but that would take some extraordinary timing and luck.

However, many dismiss timing and luck when it comes to a stranger picking her up, yet consider the possibility of her somehow trekking down 109, possibly miles away from the accident totally unseen by anyone (save for Forcier, if you believe his account).

Regardless of what you think may have happened, I think there is absolutely some amazing timing and luck within this time frame; being seen by a few people in one moment and then gone the next moment.

I'll admit, a lot could have happened here, but seemingly it all defies conventional odds and logic, leading me to think perhaps something more out of the ordinary may have occurred.

 

[Sailor Haumea]

I've recently come around to the idea that she hitched a ride with the wrong person away from the crash scene.

Someone on Reddit suggested serial killer Steven Hayes, but I'm not sure whether he has an alibi.

 

[Ozoner]

You edited your comment after my comment... you should have indicated that Ozoner; there wasn't information about how/when the bodies were discovered before I asked which makes my comment look silly. And just because it's HAPPENED that remains have been found many years later in the woods does not mean it's common or likely at all. I also wonder about the searches for those people you mentioned and how extensive they were. I don't imagine that footprints in the snow leading into the woods were checked 1.5 days after their disappearance...

I don't think I made any changes except for possibly fixing typos. When you quote me, the material that you quote is frozen in time. Subsequent changes that I make to my post won't show up in the quote embedded in your reply.