NM NM - Ingrid Lane, 37, Jemez Springs, 15 Oct 2023

[NoSpoonFeeding]

In the realm of foul play, is it possible that she purchased the burner phone to go off grid but she was tracked to her location and prevented from doing so?

If she were ensconced in the zen place, would they be under obligation to say so? Not exactly a HIPPA situation but ...

Jmo

A burner phone was of no use where she was, maybe that is why it was in the car. Someone would have to follow her from the retreat on the 15th, and no one knew exactly where she was going for her hike. The retreat told the husband on the 18th that she had left on the 15th.

If someone followed her on the morning of the 15th, into that remote area, I don't think it possible for the hunters to have not seen them. She was there, getting her car damaged, for some time before they came across her and they were still in the area to see the car towed on the 18th. If the hunter couldn't see them, then a follower couldn't see her or even be close enough to detect an air tag.
As in many cases, the behavior of the missing person shows what is going on. MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

I don’t think we can assume she lost/forgot her iPhone and bought a burner. Surely there would be a record of her buying a burner. Who buys a burner when they forget a phone when they are only an hour from home? Surely it’s cheaper/easier to just return home and grab her phone.

There's a burner on the front seat of her car. Tracphone.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The Air Tag was registered to her husband, and not Ingrid? I was proceeding along the assumption that it was Ingrid's air tag.

That specific air tag is registered as in synchronized with the husband's phone via the Find My Air Tag app so the car can be located. According to the family/husband, no one else reported as having access. Edit to add, I don't think they would mention if she also had the tag registered with her phone, in case the car was stolen/missing.

 

[RickshawFan]

Another phone close enough to detect the air tag is not going to "indicate" anything to the husband or any other phone. They can be used as a "relay" for the satellite to find the air tag when the husband uses the app. Again, there is reportedly no cell service in that area. Her phone was off and is missing and she had purchased a burner phone. It appears that she, and/or the circumstances, made it impossible for the husband to find her via pinging either her phone or the air tag. Unless someone really believes the husband could be involved, it is not important and LE can verify the husband's phone activity. Bluetooth is only short-range radio waves, it lets devices close to each other to connect, which enables your iPhone to detect nearby air tags.

IMO there's no satellite involved.

 

[RickshawFan]

That specific air tag is registered as in synchronized with the husband's phone via the Find My Air Tag app so the car can be located. According to the family/husband, no one else reported as having access. Edit to add, I don't think they would mention if she also had the tag registered with her phone, in case the car was stolen/missing.

But the tag would have to be in bluetooth range from a phone in order for any kind of tracking to work. Thus the importance of the hunters. But then, another phone would have to pick up the location from the hunters phone, and so on, in a chain. Getting the location of the Air Tag to the registered owner of the tag is all crowd-sourced. If you're in the wilderness....no crowds.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

IMO there's no satellite involved.

The air tag doesn't use satellites itself, but the required phone/device has to be connected to cellular/ WI-FI network.
The context is the husband using the app does not work just because there is a Bluetooth connection.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

But the tag would have to be in bluetooth range from a phone in order for any kind of tracking to work. Thus the importance of the hunters. But then, another phone would have to pick up the location from the hunters phone, and so on, in a chain. Getting the location of the Air Tag to the registered owner of the tag is all crowd-sourced. If you're in the wilderness....no crowds.

Some of what you are saying is what I have said probably too many times. But other phones can connect only when the air tag is in their range. The air tag can only have a Bluetooth connection with one device at a time, even if there are hundreds of devices available. MOO of my not being an expert
Edit to add, the hunter's phone does not give any other phone the ability to see that his/her phone made contact with with that tag, if I'm what I understand is correct.

 

[RickshawFan]

The air tag doesn't use satellites itself, but the required phone/device has to be connected to cellular/ WI-FI network.
The context is the husband using the app does not work just because there is a Bluetooth connection.

Yes, the registered owner has to have cell service or maybe wifi. I believe the original connection of an anonymous phone to the air Tag would be via blue tooth, and then the location would be anonymously pinged through cell networks or maybe wifi. An example would be that someone with "lost" luggage can locate their air-tagged suitcase in the home of an airport worker a whole continent away. There's some kind of anonymous pass-through via cell/wifi. No one except the tag owner can see the location, but there are many people transmitting it.

I'm not exactly sure of this, but know there is crowd-sourcing required, and some mix of blue tooth and wide area network, no satellite.

A niftier device in this whole situation might be an iphone with crash detection or the satellite SOS feature with or without fall detection. But I have a sense Ingrid didn't have her regular phone with her, or else she bought the Tracfone when she couldn't find the phone, and later found it in her car.

 

[RickshawFan]

Aha! Here's how the Apple Air Tag works...

Your AirTag sends out a secure Bluetooth signal that can be detected by nearby devices in the Find My network. These devices send the location of your AirTag to iCloud — then you can go to the Find My app and see it on a map. The whole process is anonymous and encrypted to protect your privacy. And itʼs efficient, so thereʼs no need to worry about battery life or data usage.

AirTag

Attach AirTag to everyday items, like your keys or a backpack, to easily keep track of them in the Find My app.

www.apple.com

 

[RickshawFan]

Are those jump cables in the car? I wonder if she ran down her battery? Maybe even trying to charge a phone while the car was stationary?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

There's some kind of anonymous pass-through via cell/wifi. No one except the tag owner can see the location, but there are many people transmitting it.

I'm not exactly sure of this, but know there is crowd-sourcing required, and some mix of blue tooth and wide area network, no satellite.

When they say it can connect to any enabled phone up to 30, 40, or even 100 feet away, it doesn't mean it does.
The tag connects to only one device at a time, which is going to almost always be the nearest one. It only takes one iPhone to connect with either a satellite in a remote area with no cell coverage or one iPhone with a cellular or wifi connection, where there are cell towers.
If you have an iPhone with you, that is synced with that tag, it will only report from that iPhone, even if another phone is nearby. This article also explains that it is not really "crowdsourcing".

"And there’s also a more fundamental issue with this technology. Its euphemistic description as a “crowdsourced” way to recover lost items belies the reality of how these items are tracked."
"Rather, they merely “ping” the nearest Bluetooth-enabled device and let that device’s location data do the rest."

Remember, Apple AirTags and ‘Find My’ app only work because of a vast, largely covert tracking network

AirTags promise to help find your lost wallet or bag. But at worst, they could be used for stalking, and at best they involve signing up to a global tracking network most users aren’t truly aware of.

theconversation.com

 

[RickshawFan]

When they say it can connect to any enabled phone up to 30, 40, or even 100 feet away, it doesn't mean it does.
The tag connects to only one device at a time, which is going to almost always be the nearest one. It only takes one iPhone to connect with either a satellite in a remote area with no cell coverage or one iPhone with a cellular or wifi connection, where there are cell towers.
If you have an iPhone with you, that is synced with that tag, it will only report from that iPhone, even if another phone is nearby. This article also explains that it is not really "crowdsourcing".

"And there’s also a more fundamental issue with this technology. Its euphemistic description as a “crowdsourced” way to recover lost items belies the reality of how these items are tracked."
"Rather, they merely “ping” the nearest Bluetooth-enabled device and let that device’s location data do the rest."

Remember, Apple AirTags and ‘Find My’ app only work because of a vast, largely covert tracking network

AirTags promise to help find your lost wallet or bag. But at worst, they could be used for stalking, and at best they involve signing up to a global tracking network most users aren’t truly aware of.

theconversation.com

Yes, exactly that. We are on the same page and have the same interpretation. Except there's no satellite, as I understand it. It goes through icloud.

Satellite SOS is unrelated to Find My and is not crowd-sourced. It is pinned to the exact GPS on your phone. You contact the satellite system manually or it can do it automatically if you crash or have fall detection on. Actually, it calls 911 and diverts to satellite if there's no cell service in the area. It requires an iphone 14 or an AppleWatch with cell service (an AppleWatch without cell, but within range of your iphone, might be able to use the satellite SOS feature, and I believe I've done that, but there's no certainty in this).

I upgraded to iphone 14 specifically for the SOS capability. I have seen the automatic version work when I've tripped in the woods when by myself and magically landed in a bed of dead leaves (and when I got playing with my dog a little too wildly). I've tested the manual version in my yard. It calls 911 if available, and if not it calls a satellite. It hooks you direct to emergency services, and doesn't travel in the background of anyone else's phone, even anonymously. Satellite SOS, I believe, is text. I once had to call 911 to tell them not to rescue me, lol. I blame the dog.

 

[Stoaty]

Interesting discussion, hampered by a lack of accurate information. On how the vehicle was located:

Apple AirTags are a crowd-sourced system. They have no GNSS receiver and no cellular or satellite radio. They continually broadcast their presence on UWB and are detected by any iOS device within range (< 100 meters). The iOS device anonymously passes the AirTag ID and location where it was detected on to Apple servers, either immediately, if it has cellular or wifi connectivity or, if it doesn't, then later when it does. The AirTag location is then available to the AirTag owner on the Find My app. That's how you see the location of your luggage on the other side of an airport. In this case, since there is no cell service at the vehicle location, all it needed was someone with an iPhone to drive past the vehicle, which was parked on the side of FR144, and then later return to cell coverage.

 

[charminglane]

Hypothesis: she tried to drive up a steep incline, couldn't make it and couldn't turn around, so started backing down the subaru. Then lost control and damaged the car - blew the tire and backed into a tree, breaking the back window.

• Was the rock from home?
• Why was the rock in the rear passenger seat?
  • Consider it would be in the trunk area. To get the spare tire all the trunk stuff would need to move elsewhere. Like the rear passenger seat.
• Seems like she had her phone - there are no reports that it was in the car.

This is the most likely to me.

Wondering about the AirTag. Why is it in the car at all? Specially to locate the car when needed, or left behind from luggage, camera case, jacket pocket, etc.?

 

[Laughing]

This is the most likely to me.

Wondering about the AirTag. Why is it in the car at all? Specially to locate the car when needed, or left behind from luggage, camera case, jacket pocket, etc.?

Find your car after hiking in unfamiliar territory?

Years ago we used to GeoCache -- a lot. Learned to Waypoint the car on the GS unit to be sure we'd find it again.

Hubster intended to find the cache.

I intended to return home!

jmho ymv lrr

 

[KooshBall]

This is the most likely to me.

Wondering about the AirTag. Why is it in the car at all? Specially to locate the car when needed, or left behind from luggage, camera case, jacket pocket, etc.?

Where I live, people put air tags in their cars because we have high rates of stolen vehicles.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

There's a burner on the front seat of her car. Tracphone.

There is a package on her front seat for a "burner phone". That is all we know about it at this point.

We have no evidence SHE bought it, nor when it was purchased.

 

[Inthedetails]

Of note on Ingrid's FB page:

She posted a tribute to her father, who passed away in 2021. She mentions having a lot of science lessons from him, and it looks there could be a family interest in geology and rocks.

moo

Her husband said she sometimes works in Los Alamos. I have a close relative who is a scientist and saying "Los Alamos" essentially means the national laboratory that is in Los Alamos. Do we know what she does for a living? Is she a scientist?

jmo

 

[RickshawFan]

Sister thinks she actually got a ride. If Ingrid had her phone, and it still had some charge (or was recharged), and she crossed through any area with reception, I imagine law enforcement can seek records of towers picking up her phone.

From sister's find Ingrid FB page:

For some reason, I can't copy the quote about the sister saying she was bent on reaching a peak (or something or other).

IMO that excuse she gave to hunters was kinda random. She might have just wanted to be left alone to go incognito for a while. It sounds like her car was almost completely disabled; in her position, I would definitely bail on my adventure for the day and accept the ride.

 

[ch_13]

Her husband said she sometimes works in Los Alamos. I have a close relative who is a scientist and saying "Los Alamos" essentially means the national laboratory that is in Los Alamos. Do we know what she does for a living? Is she a scientist?

jmo

From what I've been able to tell she is or was a student at the Mind Research Network at the University of New Mexico.

Here she is doing a podcast on the brain.

At first I didn't think it was Ingrid as she looks quite different compared to some other photos. However if you compare it with the below picture from the Daily Mail where she is with her husband, you can see the similarities.

Edit - I noticed that her Facebook page lists her as an "R&D Engineer at Neuromorphic Computing".
I can't find an actual company called that, but Sandia National Labs in Albuquerque seems to be heavily involved in neuromorphic computing research, so I assume that's where she's currently working.

Neuromorphic Computing

Fugu Fugu is a spiking neural network library designed to produce algorithms that are composable, scalable and portable. Developers define spiking neural network functions (“Bricks”) using procedural code to generate platform-agnostic networks. These networks are then complied to...

neuroscience.sandia.gov

Intel and Sandia National Labs Collaborate on Neuromorphic Computing

Intel Federal LLC announces an agreement with Sandia National Laboratories to explore neuromorphic computing for scaled-up computational problems.

www.intel.com