NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#27

[Jillie]

Add Spousal maintenance to the list of divorce costs...

Pity the family lawyer having to investigate / propose a property settlement from that list of debt...exploring the trusts etc

I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as "Spousal Maintenance" in Australian Family Law...just child maintenance.

 

[Aunty]

Sorry I should have said, He IS in the psyche ward and has been now for a while.

Wow, sorry, and thanks for this info xfiles. :rocker:
Granny , :what: you could be right . :rocker:

 

[truth_morph]

This point was analysed weeks ago and the msm stated yesterday that the children were at home that night.

Has there been any discussion if the girls were babysat while GBC left that night to dispose of ABC?

Then again, when you commit murder I guess the finer/pesky task of arranging supervision of your small children would hardly be at the top of your list of 'to do' jobs.

^ Sarcasm above :floorlaugh:

My guess is either EBC or OW were appointed in house babysitters while GBC and NBC were out.

 

[Jillie]

check out this site I have given up trying to get link can anyone help

suffocating-smothering Dr Dinesh forensic

blood would become present??
lease:

Is this the link you are searching for?

http://forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=123

 

[Hawkins]

After yesterday's shocking news my concern now is that Mahony & the team will switch to the plan B and play out GBC's mental unfitness/challenges scenarios. GBC with his debts, affairs and commitments to TM appears retarded to me apart from his alleged guilt. Look at what's happened in Norway. Breivik has been classified as insane, and now a brand new psychiatric clinic is being built for him at taxpayer's expense.

I can't see, based on the evidence released so far, how mental illness could play a significant part in Mr Baden Clay's trial. He seemed to be acting quite rationally and tactically during the period between his wife's disappearance and his arrest. If he did in fact kill her, then his efforts to evade suspicion would seem to indicate that he knew that killing her was wrong.

I think the Brevik matter is setting a dangerous scenario. He just seems, to me, to be a nasty peice of work who needed to get a real job and to spend less time on the net working himself up into a frenzy about the latest social and cuktural folk demons (Muslims and refugees). That's not a expression of mental illness it's just small minded nastiness. His sort shouldn't be explained away as being insane, they need to be tackled head on by rational argument, human decency and attempts at rehab. He's not some crack addicted lost soul who never had a chance in life. If there was a ever a reasonable argument for capital punishment then an unrepentant Brevik is it IMO.

 

[linette]

Curious, it just occured to me that 543 could have been a lot closer to GBC than we thought. Remember that particular post was almost harrassing the QPS to listen to them? Suppose a family member or mistress etc, wanted her to be found, and was leading police based on wheat info tashey had? Or worse, what if GBC was getting impatient? Those posts were freaky from the start

yes I agree... that was VERY odd. Those posts were eerie.

 

[YoureNicked]

My first post! Long time lurker! Maybe GBC enjoyed the adulation he got from his women and felt a frisson of excitement at how he lived a secret life that only he knew about? Could this be a symptom of some type of personality disorder????


:moo:

Hi Daisy. Welcome to the forum.

Google terms like 'casanova syndrome' and 'cheating men' and you should come up with lots of information on Narcisstic Personality Disorder and Sociopathic Personality Disorder.

That's what I did when I finally, after a few years, realised the man I loved madly (yes, I was 'mad' I realise now to have thought the self-centred pig was worth my adoration) actually enjoyed seeing me cry.

In your research you will find descriptions that sound very much like our GBC here.

Happy learning and I hope it helps to keep you safe from the 'All About Me's'

:seeya:

 

[Hawkins]

Just wondering what you thought the DPP case so far, Hawkins? I was nervous when the MSM initially reported that the defence believed it was weak, but as it all unfolded it seemed to me to be quite "compelling" as Boyle said. Of course what do we know? It could all come undone as this progresses.

.

Purely MOO based on what we've seen reported, I' say the case for an unlawful killing is strong but the case for an intentional murder not as strong. As to the unlawful killing the big question I'd ask on a jury is, if the accused didn't kill her then what other possible version of events is consistent with the admissible evidence? That's going to be hard for the defence to respond to I think if the accused doesn't give evidence. But that's a matter for any jury that may or may not be needed, to decide for themselves.

Again if I was on a jury I want to know what evidence there was of an intention to kill that goes beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to just making it look very suspicious. Lots of possible theories in relation to insurance have already been canvassed on here. And lots of people make plans to run away with a mistress without intending to kill their current partner. The alleged undertaking about July 1st wouldn't impress me too muich given that he presumably promised his wife to be faithful.

IMO lots of work to be done by both sides between now and trial and the accused will need to think long and hard about how to proceed. But he's in a much better position to know his situation than we are. And having said all that I have complete fatih in the court, the judge and the lawyers (and also the jurors) to come to the correct decision on the evidence.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Purely MOO based on what we've seen reported, I' say the case for an unlawful killing is strong but the case for an intentional murder not as strong. As to the unlawful killing the big question I'd ask on a jury is, if the accused didn't kill her then what other possible version of events is consistent with the admissible evidence? That's going to be hard for the defence to respond to I think if the accused doesn't give evidence. But that's a matter for any jury that may or may not be needed, to decide for themselves.

Again if I was on a jury I want to know what evidence there was of an intention to kill that goes beyond a reasonable doubt, as opposed to just making it look very suspicious. Lots of possible theories in relation to insurance have already been canvassed on here. And lots of people make plans to run away with a mistress without intending to kill their current partner. The alleged undertaking about July 1st wouldn't impress me too muich given that he presumably promised his wife to be faithful.

IMO lots of work to be done by both sides between now and trial and the accused will need to think long and hard about how to proceed. But he's in a much better position to know his situation than we are. And having said all that I have complete fatih in the court, the judge and the lawyers (and also the jurors) to come to the correct decision on the evidence.

That's really interesting, thank you

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Also, Hawkins, do you know much about Danny Boyle?

 

[YoureNicked]

After yesterday's shocking news my concern now is that Mahony & the team will switch to the plan B and play out GBC's mental unfitness/challenges scenarios. GBC with his debts, affairs and commitments to TM appears retarded to me apart from his alleged guilt. Look at what's happened in Norway. Breivik has been classified as insane, and now a brand new psychiatric clinic is being built for him at taxpayer's expense.

Someone earlier said that 'insanity' is very difficult to prove in a court of law.
Am hoping this is true.

I think the fact that GBC made definite decisions attached to a plan he had in mind then it would be very difficult to plead an insanity defence.

MOO

 

[pulpfiction]

I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as "Spousal Maintenance" in Australian Family Law...just child maintenance.

I believe spousal maintenance does exist however it is nothing like it is in the USA. For it to be applicable there are certain criteria that would have to be met. I doubt ABC would have qualified for it as she had a profession and she was used to living the high life with GBC. If you can imagine its applicable in cases like if she was a low income worker, then married him and hit he big time with money and she had, for a long time, been accustomed to living in a certain above average way. Clearly that is not the case here. It's rare people actually get it these days as most work. Maybe the Edelsten wife could claim it though

 

[angel1]

Sorry but I've missed a heap of threads in the past few weeks but just wondering if you know that Mr BC is in the psyche ward at the local gaol.

I didn't know that but others on here probably did. The only thing i knew was that he was in the medical ward. Apparently after court yesterday they were moving him out of the medical ward. I will look for the link to where it mentioned that

 

[YoureNicked]

I've been reading this site for quite some time. There is little doubt, based on what has been disclosed, that GBC has a personality disorder. I know him slso. Obviously he's quite narcissistic but also has anti-social tendencies evidenced by lack of remorse for affairs, the death of his wife and the tormented lives his children will lead. People like him just keep carrying on adding to their debt, seeking female attention and become quite cold and detached.

I doubt ABC or TM knew the full extent of what he was up to. I suspect TM did not know how dire his financial situation was. I suspect he had her charmed. He thought he was good at playing people. I also believe ABC found out the depths of his deceit with EVERYTHING (including the money) and it all came to a head that evening.

I also doubt OW, the sister, even had half a clue what he'd been up to. The same is probably true of his parents until that nignt. Saving face is important with narcissists. Theyre extremely deceitful and truly masters of manipulation. However, I bet his parents had long had concerns over what he was up to as a man but didn't know what he was in fact capable of (think Matthew Newton here). I'd imagine over the years as parents their eyebrows had been raised by his behaviour. You don't just become narcissistic. No wonder he was in real estate! He'd also have made a great used car salesman. Eventually, it comes out they're not as clever as they think they are. Hence, the stupid, stupid things he's done and thought no-one would find out about.p and lack of remorse. But they come down like a house of cards - and I bet he has in Arthur Gorrie!

All this is my opinion but I do believe the BC parents are involved. Someone helped him that night when they became fully aware of everything. I also think they have bailed him out financially before - ie. the debt he owes them. How stupid is TM though. And yep, I bet there are other women!

2 last things quickly. Why would anyone think it ABC menstrual blood in the back of the car? Even IF she was menstruating it would be highly unlikely she was not using sanitary items. Even IF personal hygiene had not been attended to for some hours it is very unusual that menstrual blood would seep out beyond underwear, into her track pants and then onto to a surface in the car leaving tell tale signs. It doesn't gush out! <modsnip, already addressed> ...who can find it in so many off topic posts!

Btw, there WILL be more arrests soon and when it ALL comes out it will be quite shocking that all this was going on in Brisbane and in business. Mark my words. GBC was quite the character and very sneaky - but also arrogant and dumb enough to think he was intelligent.

REMEMBER ALL THIS IS JMO

Hi pulpfiction...Great post, thanks!

You've said everything I think...except that I think the Baden-Clay seniors were involved in at least the cover up operation (if GBC is guilty).

MOOO!!

 

[frustrated detective]

I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as "Spousal Maintenance" in Australian Family Law...just child maintenance.

Spousal Maintenance does exist in Australian Family Law. In February last year the Deputy Chief Justice of the Family Court of Australia told me in a court that I may be eligible for it if I applied.

 

[grannie]

I can't see, based on the evidence released so far, how mental illness could play a significant part in Mr Baden Clay's trial. He seemed to be acting quite rationally and tactically during the period between his wife's disappearance and his arrest. If he did in fact kill her, then his efforts to evade suspicion would seem to indicate that he knew that killing her was wrong.

GBC's tactics only show that he is capable of elaborate planning and rationalising, which is quite in agreement with clinical traits for psychopaths. It's hard to prove a psychopath in court when they claim innocence. But when cornered, could they actually resort to their mental problems (a "duping delight"), on legal advice? I do not know law, so I am just expressing my concerns that GBC will use any opportunity to escape punishment.

 

[Jillie]

I'm with you on that sister Kimster - just sheer misery wreaked on innocent people. It really tore at my heart when I read the question "Did she ever say she felt bad because you were married?" Like, innocently hoping the other woman would have some compassion for her. So sad.

And the whole counselling thing showed Allison was still working to save her marriage, not knowing GBC was (allegedly) planning to kill her.

Yeah, what's so hard about having one relationship at a time, and whatever happened to loyalty and fidelity? What ever happened to the reality of the terms 'one man woman' and 'one woman man'?

Hi Daisy. Welcome to the forum.

Google terms like 'casanova syndrome' and 'cheating men' and you should come up with lots of information on Narcisstic Personality Disorder and Sociopathic Personality Disorder.

That's what I did when I finally, after a few years, realised the man I loved madly (yes, I was 'mad' I realise now to have thought the self-centred pig was worth my adoration) actually enjoyed seeing me cry.

In your research you will find descriptions that sound very much like our GBC here.

Happy learning and I hope it helps to keep you safe from the 'All About Me's'

:seeya:

Yeh....It is more common than you realise - men that you fall "madly in love with" are a totally different person to the one that you know.

It is my personal opinion that a lot of these narsissists/psychopaths are high-operating alpha personalities: very driven, very egocentric, money-oriented, proud, charming and totally lacking in a moral compass.

A lot of women would have had brushes with these types of men who left them heart-broken but, actually, they are the lucky ones who got away with just a broken heart....didn't lose their savings or worse still their lives.

 

[Jillie]

Spousal Maintenance does exist in Australian Family Law. In February last year the Deputy Chief Justice of the Family Court of Australia told me in a court that I may be eligible for it if I applied.

Wow! that's news to me...

 

[Obsessor]

Hawkins, based on what came out yesterday regarding the video call to NBC, do you anticipate more arrests to come? or can this sort of thing be dismissed as @an accidental call@ or something and provide too much trouble to follow up on? ( please excuse my legal ignorance)

 

[Jillie]

I believe spousal maintenance does exist however it is nothing like it is in the USA. For it to be applicable there are certain criteria that would have to be met. I doubt ABC would have qualified for it as she had a profession and she was used to living the high life with GBC. If you can imagine its applicable in cases like if she was a low income worker, then married him and hit he big time with money and she had, for a long time, been accustomed to living in a certain above average way. Clearly that is not the case here. It's rare people actually get it these days as most work. Maybe the Edelsten wife could claim it though

Okay...I stand corrected. But, it must be so rare in Aust that it is not often heard of.

When I was separated and looking for a divorce 20 years ago, I didn't have a job as I was looking after 4 kids under 10 - but there was not a mention of "spousal maintenance" just child maintenance....which he never paid anyway :banghead: