NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#27

[UnfoldingTruth]

Courts can subpoena all medical records I understand. In my family matters proceedings my ex-husband was given access to my medical records from my GP (fortunately there was nothing incriminating in it, but it was still distressing.)

I have heard it said that we should not do or say anything that we don't want read out in a court. Very true and food for thought.

Allison would never have imagined that those personal diary entries would be disclosed in court and to the MSM, and that she wouldn't be alive to tell her side of the story.

Yes. As part of a police investigation. Medical records can be subpoened. very true. So Police would have been able to have access to those records.(I used to work at a doctors)

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I've finally caught up and it's too late and I'm too tired to string together anything remotely intelligent sounding LOL...

I do wonder though where TM is now and who the other 2 women are??

I am still catching up, and there were posts I wanted to respond to. But like you now its late and My brain is sleepy!

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

No, I was thinking more along the lines of legal troubles, ***possibly*** due to creditors, or other legal wranglings in the US????

That ***possibly*** Allison happened to find out about in this timeframe? Igniting a fight? (Last straw)

But you make another point that is worth thinking over!

OMG.. you just put a thought in my head summer breeze(re the US angle)..I have all most banished it as it is probably a little far fetched..

 

[KG1]

I still find it completely odd that GBC was researching "take the fifth". The timing is strange also. 2 days (approx.) before Allison's disappearance.

Could there be a US connection? To the money/debt? Is there yet another angle or piece of this story not yet revealed?

Century 21 is also a very big Real Estate business in the US.

Did something else "fall apart" in these few days?

Follow the money.... Pure speculation on my part but this was gnawing at me.

This action just doesn't seem to fit nicely with the premeditated murder theory, in my humble opinion. It just doesn't make sense, nor connect the dots. At least not for me at this time, with the information we have available publicly.

Or is there a simpler explanation for this Internet search?

A man who is very ill informed and maybe watches too many US crime shows.

 

[summer_breeze]

Are you thinking maybe he planned to be separated by July 1 as he was planning on ditching everyone and running overseas to USA? Hence, 5th?

AND, I believe that the US and Austrailia have reciprocal extradition agreements...except perhaps in the event of Death Penalty cases. Will have to look this up to verify the accuracy.

My point, it would not do GBC any good to flee Austrailian law/prosecution to come to the US for "safe haven" Just would not work out that way?

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

the COD would be . . .like it is very every single person, lack of oxygen to the brain. we all die of this.

what the coroner will do is ascertain how that oxygen was stopped and who, if anyone , stopped it.

it doesnt stop a death certicate from being issued, nor an investigation..

Not really true. We can die from many varying reasons. Because of death(from whatever reason), we will all end up with lack of oxygen to the brain(due to the fact our heart is no longer pumping the blood and oxygen)..but doesn't mean that was the actual cause of death, but something that followed after, as part of the normal death process..

 

[pulpfiction]

AND, I believe that the US and Austrailia have reciprocal extradition agreements...except perhaps in the event of Death Penalty cases. Will have to look this up to verify the accuracy.

My point, it would not do GBC any good to flee Austrailian law/prosecution to come to the US for "safe haven" Just would not work out that way?

He'd be extradited back


**IMO**

 

[Nads]

As soon as it was evident the children were home it becomes a child safety matter. Child Safety Officers become involved and a determination needs to be made Immediately if the children would be safe in GBC care. Lets not forget he was "allegedly" known to QPS for DV. Naturally one of the first things to be thought of is what the children may/may not have heard. Information gathering. CSOs and Child Protection Unit have a duty and responsibility to look at all facts such as if the children were home were they asleep, we're they injured etc. One thing QPS would look at very early on is were the children asleep all night, were they drugged, was ABC drugged etc. etc. Mark my words if they were drugged or there was any hint of it he'd have lost custody of those children even as a POI as the children would be deemed at risk. There is no disputing this at it is the way the child protection system works and it would have been of paramount importance from 7.25am that morning she was reported. The children At those ages would have been a big consideration given the unusual circumstances and 4 differing stories GBC gave as to what happened.

**IMO**

But I wasn't suggesting the police had even investigated whether the kids had been given a sedative.

It was a simple suggestion.That's all.

 

[marlywings]

AND, I believe that the US and Austrailia have reciprocal extradition agreements...except perhaps in the event of Death Penalty cases. Will have to look this up to verify the accuracy.

My point, it would not do GBC any good to flee Austrailian law/prosecution to come to the US for "safe haven" Just would not work out that way?

Yes correct...he would be extradited straight back to Australia if caught in US.

I still do wonder though if that was in amongst some of the plans...grew the beard as a disguise...pick up a dodgy passport from somewhere & bail out of Australia. He was ordered to shave the beard...I wondered if this was some way of police stopping him from attempts to change his identity if he received bail

Stilllll wayyy too many questions all the way through the case...maybe July 9th committal hearing will give us some more answers.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Yes correct...he would be extradited straight back to Australia if caught in US.

I still do wonder though if that was in amongst some of the plans...grew the beard as a disguise...pick up a dodgy passport from somewhere & bail out of Australia. He was ordered to shave the beard...I wondered if this was some way of police stopping him from attempts to change his identity.

Stilllll wayyy too many questions all the way through the case...maybe July 9th committal hearing will give us some more answers.

who knows what he was thinking hey..My thought that was triggered by Summer Breeze mentioning creditors or the likes in US, I pretty much banished.. But was something to do with another Aussie who faced charges in US, who's parents happen to be near neighbours of GBC and Allisons house.. It was a light bulb moment..but now I feel a bit dimmer..Lol

 

[pulpfiction]

But I wasn't suggesting the police had even investigated whether the kids had been given a sedative.

It was a simple suggestion.That's all.

I know we're all speculating. It's just it was raised if he possibly drugged the children from his visit to the chemist.

I'm commenting on that and how not only do QPS investigate GBC, NBC & all the other parties but also child protection officers in conjunction with officers from QPS child protection unit must work with the children to ensure their safety and to rule out things like if they were drugged and find out what they know. They become additional case to both QPS and Child Safety. Things move very quickly when there are children who might be at risk and there was reason to suspect foul play right from the start.

Can you imagine if he did actually drug them also? Thank god they were not hurt anymore than they already are.

** All IMO **

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

@ 1.33am Unfolding...give me a hint...near neighbours??...lol..

T.....off

Does that help? lol

 

[Wonder Woman]

I have added to the Chronology that Marlywings has helpfully posted (at Post 682 of this thread) based on other media reports of the bail hearing. In two items in the Chronology, I have provided the source as Nads' Post on the Bail Hearing.

POLICE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST GERARD BADEN-CLAY MADE AT HIS BAIL APPLICATION.

3rd April - Gerard Baden-Clay emails mistress to say he will be separated by July 1, 2012.

12th April – Gerard Baden-Clay telephoned the life insurance company that held one of ABC’s two life insurance policies. “He asked for information on the policy but was told it could not be provided because it was not in his name, police alleged”.http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-conducting-ongoing-affair-at-time-of-wife-allisons-death-was-in-debt-and-had-inquired-about-her-life-insurance-police-affidavits-lodged-in-court-claim/story-e6freoof-1226405967381

17th April – ABC had two life insurance policies, enquiries about the policy were made twice on or about 17th April. Once by ABC – she was aware of said policies. It is thought that they were struggling with the premiums and the call was made to roll them into one or to this effect: refer to Nads' Post 181 of Thread 26 in which Nads shares the information Mrs Muddles has reported from the bail hearing.

18th April - Allison has been writing about her husband's affair http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

18th April - 10.08pm: Baden-Clay searched "taking the Fifth" online

19th April - Allison has been writing about her husband's affair http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

19th April - 6.30pm: Allison leaves a Kenmore hairdresser ahead of a real estate conference the following day.

19th April – Baden-Clay children with Allison and Gerard at home: refer to Nads' Post 181 of Thread 26 in which Nads shares the information Mrs Muddles has reported from the bail hearing.

19th April - 8.29pm: Baden-Clay's mobile phone is connected to charger

19th April - 8.45pm: Baden-Clay's phone is removed from the charger

20th April – 12.30am: Baden-Clay used his iPhone to make a FaceTime call of a duration of 1min 23secs to his father Nigel Baden-Clay http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/early-hours-call-to-father-alleged/story-e6freon6-1226406384696

20th April - 1.48am: The phone is connected to the charger

20th April - 6.18am: The phone is removed from the charger

20th April - 7.09am: Baden-Clay searches "self-incrimination" on the internet.

20th April - 7.13am: Baden-Clay attempted to access the Queensland Police Service home page.

20th April - 7.15am: Baden-Clay calls 000 to report his wife Allison was missing.

21st April - Baden-Clay attended a doctor to have injuries documented.

22nd April – Afternoon: Gerard Baden-Clay has car accident at the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre. http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/husband-joins-crowds-at-brookfield-show/story-e6freon6-1226361200946

30th April - Mrs Baden-Clay's body was discovered at Kholo Creek at Anstead, 14km from her home

30th April - Mr Baden-Clay notified the insurer of a potential claim, after his wife's body was recovered but before the identity had been confirmed.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/baden-clay-faces-three-year-wait-in-custody/story-e6frg6nf-1226405994855

14th June - Baden-Clay is charged with his wife's murder.

I hope this Chronology is useful.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Yesss...that's it...thankyou...lol..

should I delete that? Not sure if I should be mentioning names?

 

[Kimster]

A man who is very ill informed and maybe watches too many US crime shows.

This could be it! Would anyone in Oz think that the fifth amendment was part of their own constitution in the express of rights?????????? I think so. More than half of our citizens don't know the name of our Vice President, so "they" say.

(I'm still not sure who "they" are, but "they" do throw out a lot of statistics).

I wonder if there is a type of fifth amendment in the express of rights. I took a brief look and didn't see it.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia"]Constitution of Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Solaris]

The Herald Sun http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/gerard-baden-clay-conducting-ongoing-affair-at-time-of-wife-allisons-death-was-in-debt-and-had-inquired-about-her-life-insurance-police-affidavits-lodged-in-court-claim/story-e6frf7l6-1226406037780 (amongst other media outlets) reported:

“Baden-Clay allegedly told police that day his wife had found out about an affair he'd been having. An affair that he had ended in September, 2011.”​

It is being alleged, GBC had told the QPS that ABC found out about the affair on 19 April. IMO, these alleged facts might be used to support the proposition that ABC may have committed suicide after finding out about GBC's affair.

However, IMO, ABC’s journal gives an insight into her state of mind before she was killed. According to the Herald Sun, the Prosecution disclosed at the bail hearing that ABC had been writing about GBC's affair in her journal on 18 and 19 April. In one journal entry, ABC had written:

"how were the hotels paid for?" "Did 'she' ever say she felt bad because he was married?" "How many people in the office knew?" "Did (the defendant) regret the whole thing, or just being caught?"​

Arguably, the list of questions includes many questions she may have intended to ask GBC eg. "how were the hotels paid for?" "Did 'she' ever say she felt bad because he was married?" Arguably, there may also be questions that she was asking herself eg. "Did [GBC] regret the whole thing, or just being caught?”. In any event, these questions suggest to me that she wanted to work things out. Her attendance at marriage counselling with GBC also confirms this.

Accordingly, IMO, the evidence obtained from the journal does not support ABC having any suicidal state of mind and does not advance a theory of suicide. :cow:

There are two pieces of information here that don't make sense. If ABC only found out about GBC's affair on 19 April, how on earth could they have already had counselling about it? The diagram of TM's house was allegedly drawn in ABC's journal by GBC as part of the counselling process.

Sorry, but IMO ABC knew about the affair well before 19 April. The most likely "new" information that ABC received on 19 April was that TM was going to be present at the conference the next day. If there was an argument/altercation between ABC and GBC it was most likely as a result of this information.

Oh, and I agree with other posters who have questioned the relevance of a diagram of TM's house as part of the counselling process: it makes absolutely no sense at all. I imagine the case notes of the counsellor who conducted the marriage counselling have been subpoened by now to determine what really transpired during the sessions. The case notes would include any "homework" set by the counsellor for the couple to complete between sessions.

 

[truth_morph]

I remember a poster way, way back (early days of the investigation) stating that GBC & ABC were advised to discuss the affair and their daily activities each night. The poster seemed quite close to the situation at the time.

I haven't been involved in marriage counseling so I can't comment on the techniques used but, it does sound plausible to openly discuss the affair. Far healthier IMO than brushing it under the carpet.

 

[summer_breeze]

The explanation that G wasn't too bright and thought Australia has the fifth amendment I would suggest.

A man who is very ill informed and maybe watches too many US crime shows.

Thank you Nads and KG1. With all due respect and honesty, I don't believe that GBC was that uninformed or naive about Aussie Law. My personal opinion.

 

[Lu-Lu]

There are two pieces of information here that don't make sense. If ABC only found out about GBC's affair on 19 April, how on earth could they have already had counselling about it? The diagram of TM's house was allegedly drawn in ABC's journal by GBC as part of the counselling process.

Sorry, but IMO ABC knew about the affair well before 19 April. The most likely "new" information that ABC received on 19 April was that TM was going to be present at the conference the next day. If there was an argument/altercation between ABC and GBC it was most likely as a result of this information.

The Journal entries don't sit right with me. Especially when it was previously reported that EVERYONE knew about the affair. And that he came out and announced to the office that Allison had found out about the affair, in the middle of last year. Allison Baden Clay knew of husbands affair

I ponder if the entries don't pertain to Mistress #3. And question if she isn't one of the staff he had working for him up until recently..? Wasn't there speculation of this back in previous threads a month or so ago??

There was also a rumour about a suicide note being found, but not in Allison's handwriting. I wonder if this isn't fiction, and is something that we will find out later when more information is released down the track, as being part of the journal entries.

Something interesting that I caught on TV a couple of nights ago, whilst chanel surfing. Can't remember rightly what the show was altogether about. But it was mentioned that people that premeditate murders, only plan upto the murder itself. And do not plan what comes next, or what to do after the actually killing. Wish I could remember what show I saw this on. It was a real :idea: moment.

 

[itsthevibe]

I agree with what you outline above. My concern is whether the girls actually heard or witnessed something. I think that would be horrendous! If they didn't, then their chances of "recovery" are pretty good I think, because kids are very resilient.

I have to say I don't agree, although it depends on what you mean by 'recovery'. Of course my wish is that it is the case as I can see yours is, but I feel this is a little simplistic. It's nice to look on the bright side, but this is probably the worst that could happen to any child, other than being physically abused and attacked themselves.