NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[CaseClosed]

As one of the few (apparently) males on here, can I just stick my head into the lion's den and make a point from the man's perspective?

It takes two to tango, and as a (very) happily married man myself, I have been "targeted" by the odd woman over the years (maybe "odd" reflects their taste?? ). And I should point out that MOST of these have been married women.

However, the thoughts of the disastrous consequences of getting involved, and what it would mean to my own marriage, completely over-rode the temptations of the moment, no matter how flattering they may have been to one's ego.

The thought of destroying my own marriage doesn't even bear thinking about - BUT - that's because I have a beautiful wife who is also my best friend and soul mate, and a marriage that I value extremely highly.

BUT - and here's the thing - if the BC marriage was already at the stage - for whatever reasons - that they were having problems, then the consequences of his actions may not have been able to over-ride the temptations and ego-stroking that were being offered. Of course, we do not know who made the first play between GBC and TM, and I am in no way defending or blaming either party. As somebody already posted - these things happen - it's human nature.

In my case, the marriage is something to be treasured and there is no way that I would do anything to jeopardize that. But for someone who is in a rocky marriage, then temptation may rule the day....

We just don't know what was going on in the marriage, so we shouldn't really pass judgement. There are at least two sides to the story - or in this case - maybe three sides?

... things happen, yes, it's human nature ... but I prefer to be a better human and use self-control over temptation (even in bad circumstances). Many people are left destroyed when there is infidelity, in particular children. Parents who cheat seem to always forget about the children. Parents' main responsibility is to those children, but they just let their sexual urges control their actions ... married women and married men cheat and these are both selfish and self-centred individuals IMO.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

The reality is that nobody can meet all our needs, especially not a spouse. It is something we just have to be mature enough to accept.

That's true... but we need to be with the person who meets the needs that matter. I think all relationships have a 'pay off' or compromise... but some things can't be compromised on, for me anyway... and that's fidelity.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

Thank you for being so reasonable, and also for seeing my posts as they are written Coolcat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mothergoose]

You're welcome ...the only person who would know is Inspector Ainsworth.... I don't think anyone else can say TM isn't a person of interest at this stage. My opinion is, she could very well come under this umbrella of "persons of interest".

Quite right Marlywings thanks for that. Can it be said then that because QPS have not said that TN "isn't" a POI that she automatically is a POI.I would need something that points to her (besides the affair) to convice me to even look towards her. It has been 'Rumored' she will be a witness for the prosecution after all. IMO

 

[CaseClosed]

I agree totally but that rarely happens.Happily married people are less likely to give in to temptation and lets face it our lives are full of temptations. Combine that with lust and the ingredients are complete.What you suggest is of course the honorable thing to do but I have only know of one couple who did it that way. Sad but true.

... yes, it's not very common, but I know a few who have taken the honest way out of unhappy marriages.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Your story touched me. You are indeed a strong individual with great empathy and compassion.

Thanks MG - I guess I just recognise how complex we are as human beings and that we all have different reference grids when we deal with each other. I am sure that I made mistakes - he was not alone. I didn't recognise his need for glory, to have his name known, and to be "seen" to be successful and believe me, it was a very real need. In fact, I felt that it was hereditary. His father was exactly the same. His current wife shares the need, and they are very successful together. And well known. I was more focused on family, day to day development of the kids, etc. Doesn't make either of us a better person..we are just different.

And my ex was not a bad man. His kids love him (I made sure that I didn't bad mouth him or his girlfriend because I wanted them to love their Dad), and we still exchange emails related to the kids, and wish each other Happy Birthday.

My own pain went away with time and forgiveness and I have lived a wonderful life. Allison hung on to her marriage, like a terrior. I can't blame her...I tried to do the same. Tried everything in the book. Letting go was the best thing for everyone in my case. I hope that TM's experience will make everyone who knows about it think twice about having an affair, or if they DO want out of their marriage, to have the courage to do it BEFORE they have someone else. That really DOES take courage and few will be able to give away half their assets and go through the angst with the kids to do it. No less hurtful for the one left behind, however.

 

[me 2]

Hi HeartRuledHead

I think a lot of the reason many may come across as so vicious and angry towards TM, is the length of the affair. It's not like it was a short fling (not suggesting at all that that would be acceptable either), but 3 -4 years is a long time and then for the affair to end, only to resume again so soon after. Also, she must have known Allison, and worked with her for at least some of those years. Did she not have any respect for Allison? Unfortunately it appears she put her own selfish wants and needs above all else.

Maybe TM really did love Gerard, and maybe she really thought he would leave Allison for her, but he didn't. Why didn't Toni walk away much much earlier?

I am sure it was probably Gerard who pursued TM, but she did always have a choice to say no. I also can't understand why you'd even want to be with someone who was so deceitful that he would string his wife along for 3 years plus.

I'm sure Toni wasn't his first infidelity, and obviously not his last. Quite possibly there are plenty more than the other 2 supposed mistresses.

While I don't believe she is responsible for Allison's death, she obviously played a big part in Allison's misery prior to her death.

I think it's highly likely that Gerard would have done the evil deed, regardless of whether he was still seeing TM, even if he'd never met her. I also doubt whether Gerard ever had any real intentions of 'officially' being with Toni. If he had have felt so strongly for her, wouldn't he have left Allison sooner? I reckon TM was probably just another big use for him, she was serving some purpose, much of that probably financial.

I agree with you in that I don't think people should poke holes in Toni's appearance (or his other family members for that matter). It's not even vaguely relevant.

All MOO

As one of the few (apparently) males on here, can I just stick my head into the lion's den and make a point from the man's perspective?

It takes two to tango, and as a (very) happily married man myself, I have been "targeted" by the odd woman over the years (maybe "odd" reflects their taste?? ). And I should point out that MOST of these have been married women.

However, the thoughts of the disastrous consequences of getting involved, and what it would mean to my own marriage, completely over-rode the temptations of the moment, no matter how flattering they may have been to one's ego.

The thought of destroying my own marriage doesn't even bear thinking about - BUT - that's because I have a beautiful wife who is also my best friend and soul mate, and a marriage that I value extremely highly.

BUT - and here's the thing - if the BC marriage was already at the stage - for whatever reasons - that they were having problems, then the consequences of his actions may not have been able to over-ride the temptations and ego-stroking that were being offered. Of course, we do not know who made the first play between GBC and TM, and I am in no way defending or blaming either party. As somebody already posted - these things happen - it's human nature.

In my case, the marriage is something to be treasured and there is no way that I would do anything to jeopardize that. But for someone who is in a rocky marriage, then temptation may rule the day....

We just don't know what was going on in the marriage, so we shouldn't really pass judgement. There are at least two sides to the story - or in this case - maybe three sides?

Welcom Dr W. I am relatively new to this, although I have been following from the start.

I just want to say that I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts as they are factual not emotional- you remind me so much of my husband.

I do have a question for you - do you think that maybe as the murderer was trying to suffocate ABC she was fighting for her life, the murderer then broke her neck. Do you think this could cause internal bleeding ?

I have posted a few things but I never get any replies......

thank you in advance.

 

[Mystique75]

...no-one knows really whether she inadvertently was partly responsible. ie Lets say he was a man on the edge due to his financial struggles and this made him go bananas. Then we have TM in the background, pressuring him to no end...."Gerard, I will leave you if you don't do something. ANYTHING Gerard."

...Other than divorce...........death was the only option. Surely TM knew that.

Respectfully snipped to add MOO:

Can't picture the alleged perp suddenly taking drastic action because the other woman wants it. Why now, after how many years of stringing her along?

I don't believe TM would know that death was ANY option, let alone the only one. That's MOO

Also, it worries me that it seems accepted as fact that things or circumstances surrounding a person are responsible for how that person reacts to it. If he were under pressure, nothing "made him go bananas" except himself. Circumstances may be a catalyst, or a trigger but only the person reacting or responding to it is reponsible for how they react.

Personally, I believe that people don't do things because something "makes" them do it, however tempting it may be to shift the blame. I believe that people do things because they have chosen to do them, assuming they are adults who are capable of thinking for themselves. IMO

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

But if the iPhone was planted nearby, on/near a walking route, he would expect it to be found. Why then would he incriminate himself by wiping the phone remotely?

Sorry, am a bit behind in this thread again...might've been mentioned already.

and if he wiped it from a remote app on his own phone, would that be recorded in his phone somewhere?

 

[willough]

Ms McHugh allegedly told police Mr Baden-Clay would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".
Police allege that Mr Baden-Clay stayed in contact with Ms McHugh after Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance, using a pseudonym "Bruce Overland" in emails.

It is very possible in my eyes that she was involved.......Many things about TM have not been answered. Did she volunteer information? Or was she presented with information, so that she HAD TO fess up.

Did she tell the police about Bruce Overland? Or did they find out and say "Toni, we know about BO"....lol BO.

All is dependent on what she has actually divulged......as opposed to what has been forced from her, from police.

 

[Fuskier]

TM is part of this crime IMO. Even if it was just the fact she was having an affair with a married man, it's a man who wanted to bump off his wife to be with TM. She is STILL part of this murky, sad tale. And i think it would be foolish to not consider her a POI IMO. She had been trying to crawl into GBC's life for years and push the wife out, getting chummy with the BC family, his kids and even working along side him in the office, happily showing off their affair. TM would also benefit from the insurance coming in. She obviously had previously invested in GBC for a reason.

Ms McHugh allegedly told police Mr Baden-Clay would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".
Police allege that Mr Baden-Clay stayed in contact with Ms McHugh after Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance, using a pseudonym "Bruce Overland" in emails.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...lice-allege-20120626-2102n.html#ixzz1z3rlIV7C

Why would she stay in contact with 'Bruce' aka GBC AFTER ABC was missing... you don't think she could have read between the lines?? How dumb could she be? He talks of getting rid of the wife and fixing all the money problems and *Hey Presto* :devil: wife is missing, police are looking for a body and 'Bruce' is making claims for the insurance. Is she stupid or a person that would benefit and have her dreams come true of the final prize? THIS IS JUST MOO.

I wonder... If Allison could write a post in this very forum... what would she like to say about the affair that preceeded her DEATH????

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

 

[willough]

Respectfully snipped to add MOO:

Can't picture the alleged perp suddenly taking drastic action because the other woman wants it. Why now, after how many years of stringing her along?

I don't believe TM would know that death was ANY option, let alone the only one. That's MOO

Also, it worries me that it seems accepted as fact that things or circumstances surrounding a person are responsible for how that person reacts to it. If he were under pressure, nothing "made him go bananas" except himself. Circumstances may be a catalyst, or a trigger but only the person reacting or responding to it is reponsible for how they react.

Personally, I believe that people don't do things because something "makes" them do it, however tempting it may be to shift the blame. I believe that people do things because they have chosen to do them, assuming they are adults who are capable of thinking for themselves. IMO

Because ultimatums were now in place.......Her ultimatum.....and if im right, he had to have people paid by 30th June........Which would have meant, by 1st July, his financial belt buckle would have felt more loosened and ready to move on with TM. But only if Allison wa dead. Surely TM knew, this is what that meant.

Whether his actions made him go "bananas" or not...If TM saw this (she should have if she was perceptive) and still pushed, it was always gonna turn ugly. IMO

 

[Keentoknow]

TM is part of this crime IMO. Even if it was just the fact she was having an affair with a married man, it's a man who wanted to bump off his wife to be with TM. She is STILL part of this murky, sad tale. And i think it would be foolish to not consider her a POI IMO. She had been trying to crawl into GBC's life for years and push the wife out, getting chummy with the BC family, his kids and even working along side him in the office, happily showing off their affair. TM would also benefit from the insurance coming in. She obviously had previously invested in GBC for a reason.

Ms McHugh allegedly told police Mr Baden-Clay would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".
Police allege that Mr Baden-Clay stayed in contact with Ms McHugh after Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance, using a pseudonym "Bruce Overland" in emails.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...lice-allege-20120626-2102n.html#ixzz1z3rlIV7C

Why would she stay in contact with 'Bruce' aka GBC AFTER ABC was missing... you don't think she could have read between the lines?? How dumb could she be? He talks of getting rid of the wife and fixing all the money problems and *Hey Presto* :devil: wife is missing, police are looking for a body and 'Bruce' is making claims for the insurance. Is she stupid or a person that would benefit and have her dreams come true of the final prize? THIS IS JUST MOO.

I wonder... If Allison could write a post in this very forum... what would she like to say about the affair that preceded her DEATH????

At a guess the police would have taken possession of TMs phone. So when he texted the police would have seen the text first. :floorlaugh:

TM told the police about the other calls. Think the show might have been over round about the 26th.

 

[J-Diggety]

TM is part of this crime IMO. Even if it was just the fact she was having an affair with a married man, it's a man who wanted to bump off his wife to be with TM. She is STILL part of this murky, sad tale. And i think it would be foolish to not consider her a POI IMO. She had been trying to crawl into GBC's life for years and push the wife out, getting chummy with the BC family, his kids and even working along side him in the office, happily showing off their affair. TM would also benefit from the insurance coming in. She obviously had previously invested in GBC for a reason.

Ms McHugh allegedly told police Mr Baden-Clay would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".
Police allege that Mr Baden-Clay stayed in contact with Ms McHugh after Mrs Baden-Clay's disappearance, using a pseudonym "Bruce Overland" in emails.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...lice-allege-20120626-2102n.html#ixzz1z3rlIV7C

Why would she stay in contact with 'Bruce' aka GBC AFTER ABC was missing... you don't think she could have read between the lines?? How dumb could she be? He talks of getting rid of the wife and fixing all the money problems and *Hey Presto* :devil: wife is missing, police are looking for a body and 'Bruce' is making claims for the insurance. Is she stupid or a person that would benefit and have her dreams come true of the final prize? THIS IS JUST MOO.

I wonder... If Allison could write a post in this very forum... what would she like to say about the affair that preceeded her DEATH????

Like I said, she is a fool, guilty of having an affair (not adutery as I was corrected) and nothing more "at this stage".
And shes a fool for recieving and potentially responding to emails from the goose. There may have been phone calls as well, im not one to judge on what she could have said, thought or believed, becasue there is absolutely no proof or evdence that you or I have seen.

Again, please note, I said "at this stage", who know what will transpire.


How do you know that the police didnt ask her to keep in contact on the off chance that he may have slipped some thing?

Im keen to hear your thoughts on that?



I appreciate your response, but the bolding and unecessary font size was a bit over the top.

Im happy to discuss anything, but dont yell, its very unbecoming.

 

[Blue Bottle]

My opinion about this, for what it's worth, and I do know the family well, is that EBC is terrified about losing Nigel as well. She is, even at her age, besotted with her husband, hence the kiss in the garage (that wasn't for the cameras - that is her genuine 'Gone With The Wind' approach to her husband). She knows her son will now pay for his sins, and maybe part of her thinks he rightly should, but her approach to Nigel's (alleged) sin would be entirely different: he did it for the blind love of his children, in the dead of a short night when there was no opportunity to think it through, not with a panicked son demanding help and NOW. I think she is a woman in a lot of emotional pain, about to lose everything, including the man she adores more than anything, endured jungles and moved countries for. She would not want to go to prison and see where NBC may soon join his son. My opinion only.

I'm really glad you posted that. Thanks.

I bolded the kiss part because I personally dislike the deragatory remarks, the mockery and the big deal which has been made of this. So what if she kisses her husband passionately, after all, they have been married for a long time. People are entitled to some privacy and cameras have no place snooping in people's garages just to get pictures to sell their news.

Sure, some will argue that they knew the cameras were there, but it possibly didn't occur to them that cameras would go snooping about, tailing every move they make. It's their son Gerard who was the focus of interest at the time, not them. Plus the whole situation would have been quite overwhelming and distressing for her.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

Perhaps GBC was expecting by 30 June he would gain the profits of his monthly Property Management fees (typically collected at each month's end) had a number of sales due for settlement and the with financial year end anticipated a hefty tax return. I think it's fair that TM would have assumed anything but him killing his wife to collect on life insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fuskier]

I do have a question for you - do you think that maybe as the murderer was trying to suffocate ABC she was fighting for her life, the murderer then broke her neck. Do you think this could cause internal bleeding?

Hi Me2, this possibility did cross my mind that her neck may have been broken. MOO.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

He talks of getting rid of the wife and fixing all the money problems and *Hey Presto* :devil: wife is missing, police are looking for a body and 'Bruce' is making claims for the insurance. Is she stupid or a person that would benefit and have her dreams come true of the final prize? THIS IS JUST MOO.

I am sorry, my previous post was in response to this.


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[Curiousasacat]

Uh OH! Things are getting sour...Lets not turn on each other!

This is Harsh....I don't think she is defending cheating.

I am not defending TM when I say this but realistically she would be feeling very guilty for her actions and ashamed at the behaviour that she has been involved in but from the evidence in front of us it appears that she certainly has not murdered anyone or been involved in the murder of anyone?

I think she has foolishly had an affair with a married man and never expected him to murder his wife. This will be her sentence for all of her living years and that of her children unfortunatley and I have no doubt that she will punish herself every waking minute for getting herself into this mess.

Love is Blind and Love Can't read minds - I really don't think TM thought it would end up like this?

Lets not forget some of the women the world idolises had affairs - Princess Di & Marilyn Monroe to name a few and yet there infidelities are ignored because they were famous and presumedly looked upon as needy and vulnerable - Why is TM treated differently and being condemned to death basically for something GBC has done....IMO.....

I think we should be focussing more on GBC's actions in all of this as he appears to have led TM on in telling her that he had told Allison about the Affair. TM could only go by what GBC was telling her?

I hate how the other woman is treated worse then the Man....OK...FIRE AWAY! I can handle it!.....lol

Hi Coolcat. I'll Fire.
TM is no Princess Di or Marilyn so to compare is unfair. I am angry that the affair was blatant.They all worked in the same office.People knew,they must have.
Ask yourselves how would you feel if you were Allison?
Would you feel sad,embarrassed and ashamed,disappointed in your self and for your daughters,angry and distraught? Living in a small gossipy suburb and having to hold your head high every day,everywhere.
Those journal entries are heartbreaking
For all the posts written in this thread is why I am angry at her.
I have a very personal story about cheating but not prepared to voice it here ATM but I will say that my mother was in the same position as TM so I have empathy in that way BUT no one was murdered.
An ultimatum was given by one party and Allison ended up dead.
This murder should not have occurred and the reason it seems to have happened is for almost a million dollars.
Did Allison get a choice to live or die? No she did not.

People say Oh she should have left, it is easier to say than to do.

So yes I agree Toni is in a terrible situation but it is one that not only should not have happened but something should have been done from preventing it from happening.

I believe in my opinion we will hear more about this lady.

 

[willough]

Perhaps GBC was expecting by 30 June he would gain the profits of his monthly Property Management fees (typically collected at each month's end) had a number of sales due for settlement and the with financial year end anticipated a hefty tax return. I think it's fair that TM would have assumed anything but him killing his wife to collect on life insurance.


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Sure...Anything is possible. Though...He did say he "couldnt divorce Allison". The above would mean otherwise.

Had one statement not been with the other, then I wouldnt blame TM one iota. But to me, if one is told...."I will be with you by 1st July, but not through the means of divorce".....then one can only summise death.

Only other option if one wants to be facetious, is that TM was going to have him married (seperated). But I doubt this...as surely it would have already been the case.

PS : welcome to posting....It is nice and refreshing to have different thoughts and views bought in. It allows us all to get the good ole brain fibres working, to think on things......Hugs