NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[Keentoknow]

That is a very selfish act, my brother killed himself in his garage and his 12 year old son came home from school to find him like that. That poor boy will never get that image out of his head.

Sure would have been a difficult time for your family.

 

[coolcat]

Hi Coolcat. I'll Fire.
TM is no Princess Di or Marilyn so to compare is unfair. I am angry that the affair was blatant.They all worked in the same office.People knew,they must have.
Ask yourselves how would you feel if you were Allison?
Would you feel sad,embarrassed and ashamed,disappointed in your self and for your daughters,angry and distraught? Living in a small gossipy suburb and having to hold your head high every day,everywhere.
Those journal entries are heartbreaking
For all the posts written in this thread is why I am angry at her.
I have a very personal story about cheating but not prepared to voice it here ATM but I will say that my mother was in the same position as TM so I have empathy in that way BUT no one was murdered.
An ultimatum was given by one party and Allison ended up dead.
This murder should not have occurred and the reason it seems to have happened is for almost a million dollars.
Did Allison get a choice to live or die? No she did not.

People say Oh she should have left, it is easier to say than to do.

So yes I agree Toni is in a terrible situation but it is one that not only should not have happened but something should have been done from preventing it from happening.

I believe in my opinion we will hear more about this lady.

I'm Coolcat BTW...lol...Don't want Alli to take a fall for my comments!

I understand your reaction....I have been the victim of an affair and - shock horror - I have also had one.....Hmmmm Hmmm....Judge now!

An "ultimatum" is not a demand to kill your wife.... It is a proposal - You can either divorce your wife or I am out of here - I think this is what TM has proposed to GBC...I doubt that she thought he was capable of killing as from what I understand by some of the locals on here is that the town never expected this to have happened to this family?

I don't believe the affair had anything to do with Allison's murder - I think it was all for financial gain and seeing as though he had planned to kill his wife he might as well take up with his mistress....This is what I think he was thinking - It was not about love or TM at all - it was IMO purely because of greed and the need to get his hands on Allison's Life Insurance...SIMPLE!

I don't believe he thought of anyone but himself - His Children - His Wife - His Mistress - His Parents - His Family - His Friends - His Staff - His Community...All of these people were far from his mind - I believe he was only seeing dollar signs and he would worry about everyone else once he had got the job done!!

He is very conniving and strikes me as a very self obsessed man...Only in life to self serve.

 

[GlobeArtichoke]

and if he wiped it from a remote app on his own phone, would that be recorded in his phone somewhere?

With iCloud ( if its switched on) EVERYTHING is automatically sent there except SMS content. Everything else is sent - emails, calender entries, notes, find my iPhone activity...

.. not everything, only what you choose to when you set up the iCloud part of it. I have mine set up for photos only.

Yeah - I'm not backing anything up - we can but hope that Allison was conscientiously backing everything up....

If Allison's iPhone had data backed up to iCloud, I'd bet it was GBC who set it up. He would have known of its existence and, if compelled to remotely delete her phone, he'd delete the iCloud account for it as well.

IMO, GBC wouldn't have so easily incriminated himself by remotely wiping Allison's iPhone. He chose to feign searching for her with the Find My iPhone app, and include that action in an SMS to Allison, to demonstrate his attempt at finding her to police. The ability to do that shows he has control over her iPhone settings including iCloud (if it was set up).

IMO, he might have been better off leaving her phone untouched at their house instead of allegedly planting it on a walking route.
...unless it became damaged during an altercation(?!)

 

[Curiousasacat]

First of all you don't know TM - so you are assuming who she is and who she is not.

Secondly, do you recall that Marilyn sang "Happy Birthday" to President JFK in the presence of Jackie-O? ;-)



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I don't want to argue with you, you seem to want to argue though. Your opinion on TM is your own. Surely you must have known the reaction you would cause posting here. No?
You haven't actually shared much about her at all. She's a lovely person apparently.

Re coolcat saying we are treating her like our best friends, no most of us want justice for an innocent woman, a mother of 3 young girls.Three young girls who have had their mother taken away from them in an appalling situation.

Yes actually I do know that TM is not Princess Di or Marylin and don't really care about them in r egard tothis case.

"so you are assuming who she is and who she is not." No just assuming she is not a movie star or a princess.

You can say she's a lovely person all you like, we are entitled to think otherwise until further is proven.
I have never made personal comments or derogatory comments about her previously. I had refrained.

Devils advocates pfff. Interestingly we have not heard from posters that truly believed that Gerard was innocent since his arrest.

Can't be bothered having to argue about this stuff.

:seeya:

 

[HeartRuledHead]

Oh OK. I was just going by what he told the investigating officers.

He told investigating officers he was a heavy sleeper

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...fekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html

I believe there are and will be MANY instances as to what GBC said and what is true to be very different things ;-)

Even if his wife slept peacefully next to him that night given his financial skeletons and his affairs with not only TM but 2 others - it would be hard to believe he slept heavily on that night - or any other. As I said... Unless medicated


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[coolcat]

Hi Coolcat. I'll Fire.
TM is no Princess Di or Marilyn so to compare is unfair. I am angry that the affair was blatant.They all worked in the same office.People knew,they must have.
Ask yourselves how would you feel if you were Allison?
Would you feel sad,embarrassed and ashamed,disappointed in your self and for your daughters,angry and distraught? Living in a small gossipy suburb and having to hold your head high every day,everywhere.
Those journal entries are heartbreaking
For all the posts written in this thread is why I am angry at her.
I have a very personal story about cheating but not prepared to voice it here ATM but I will say that my mother was in the same position as TM so I have empathy in that way BUT no one was murdered.
An ultimatum was given by one party and Allison ended up dead.
This murder should not have occurred and the reason it seems to have happened is for almost a million dollars.
Did Allison get a choice to live or die? No she did not.

People say Oh she should have left, it is easier to say than to do.

So yes I agree Toni is in a terrible situation but it is one that not only should not have happened but something should have been done from preventing it from happening.

I believe in my opinion we will hear more about this lady.

I don't know how Princess Di and Marilyn Monroe having affairs is acceptable above any other ordinary person..This is my point...We don't know what sort of person TM is other then she had an affair as did the women above??

 

[CaseClosed]

First of all you don't know TM - so you are assuming who she is and who she is not.

Secondly, do you recall that Marilyn sang "Happy Birthday" to President JFK in the presence of Jackie-O? ;-)



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As it is apparent that you know TM, and understandable that you may be sticking up for her, you should though recognise IMO, that she had no regard for Allison's wellbeing (... I am not talking of murder) and the children. She continued her affair with him, knowing that a family break-up was in the cards and 3 young children would be in the middle of a nasty situation. I don't believe TM was involved in this crime, but much of what she is now going through is somewhat self-inflicted. IMO.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I'm Coolcat BTW...lol...Don't want Alli to take a fall for my comments!

I understand your reaction....I have been the victim of an affair and - shock horror - I have also had one.....Hmmmm Hmmm....Judge now!

An "ultimatum" is not a demand to kill your wife.... It is a proposal - You can either divorce your wife or I am out of here - I think this is what TM has proposed to GBC...I doubt that she thought he was capable of killing as from what I understand by some of the locals on here is that the town never expected this to have happened to this family?

I don't believe the affair had anything to do with Allison's murder - I think it was all for financial gain and seeing as though he had planned to kill his wife he might as well take up with his mistress....This is what I think he was thinking - It was not about love or TM at all - it was IMO purely because of greed and the need to get his hands on Allison's Life Insurance...SIMPLE!

I don't believe he thought of anyone but himself - His Children - His Wife - His Mistress - His Parents - His Family - His Friends - His Staff - His Community...All of these people were far from his mind - I believe he was only seeing dollar signs and he would worry about everyone else once he had got the job done!!

He is very conniving and strikes me as a very self obsessed man...Only in life to self serve.

I'm not judging anyone for having an affair.(Unless a murder occurs) I would certainly never say anything about your admission.
I am perturbed it went so long and most locals seemed to know even before the media released.
I agree with your post.
I am glad we can post these comments and be ok with each other.
We are entitled to our posts but also entitled to "fire" back should we disagree. **Hope you accept a hug*** LOL

 

[Rational]

Sticking up for her cheating is far fetched to say the least! I said being involved in an affair does not mean she is capable of murder!!!

Perhaps re-read my posts as I have never condoned the affair, though have said it is something that sadly happens all the time, yet the involvement in one does not mean you are someone who could murder or even support a murderer.


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HRH
I agree that the fact she is involved in affair does not make her a murderer. What I tried to reflect on previously is that, yes affairs do happen, and that is not what I have against TM, even thou I found it morally wrong and reprehensible but at the end of the day, like some others have pointed out all involved (except the children ) are adults and like the rest of us have to live with the choices AND consequences of those choices.

What I have against TM, in a nutshell, is that she IMO was a big player in creating the cauldron of feelings, emotions, possibility of financial ruin, etc that lead GBC to crack and murder Allison.

At a minimum she lend him $290.000, IMO probably closer to $500,000.if she had not provided that on the basis of a 'gentlemen's agreement' he would not have had a hope in hell of getting finances in any other way. I don't know what the rational was in her mind for lending him this, or the rational for her restarting the affair, or thinking it was ok to request of him to tell Allison that they both would be at the conference the day after the night she was murdered.

Can you see how this all contributed to what happened? And that whilst GBC is at the moment the one who has been charged wih her murder that all is not clear and we should keep an open mind on how it all unravelled that afternoon and night.

As Lost Sock stated (and I hope he has not gone away forever) the focus of this forum is on the crime in a victim friendly way, it is not about all the other victims who came about as a result of a narcissistic highly incompetent, morally destitute alleged murderer. I have no doubt that what this man left in his trail of destruction will have repercussions for many years to come for a hell of a lot of people. For some it will be psychological trauma, for other it will be massive grief and shock, for others it will be loss of self esteem and confidence, for yet others probably their own financial ruin. It will also mean broken families and years of coming to grip with this crime. TM will get over it quicker than many of the others and she still has her life and her kids. So she probably got the best deal in the end.

Ps sorry for my rant, not feeling great (terrible sore throat etc) so having a 'doona day' and probably letting my fingers do the talking.
All IMOO

 

[Timmy]

I'm not judging anyone for having an affair.(Unless a murder occurs) I would certainly never say anything about your admission.
I am perturbed it went so long and most locals seemed to know even before the media released.
I agree with your post.
I am glad we can post these comments and be ok with each other.
We are entitled to our posts but also entitled to "fire" back should we disagree. **Hope you accept a hug*** LOL

So..... No cat fight then! That's a relief.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

HRH
I agree that the fact she is involved in affair does not make her a murderer. What I tried to reflect on previously is that, yes affairs do happen, and that is not what I have against TM, even thou I found it morally wrong and reprehensible but at the end of the day, like some others have pointed out all involved (except the children ) are adults and like the rest of us have to live with the choices AND consequences of those choices.

What I have against TM, in a nutshell, is that she IMO was a big player in creating the cauldron of feelings, emotions, possibility of financial ruin, etc that lead GBC to crack and murder Allison.

At a minimum she lend him $290.000, IMO probably closer to $500,000.if she had not provided that on the basis of a 'gentlemen's agreement' he would not have had a hope in hell of getting finances in any other way. I don't know what the rational was in her mind for lending him this, or the rational for her restarting the affair, or thinking it was ok to request of him to tell Allison that they both would be at the conference the day after the night she was murdered.

Can you see how this all contributed to what happened? And that whilst GBC is at the moment the one who has been charged wih his murder that all is not. Lear and we should keep an open mind on how it all unravelled that afternoon and night.

As Lost Sock stated (and I hope he has not gone away forever) the focus of this forum is on the crime in a victim friendly way, it is not about all the other victims who came about as a result of a narcissistic highly incompetent, morally destitute alleged murderer. I have no doubt that what this man left in his trail of destruction will have repercussions for many years to come for a hell of a lot of people. For some it will be psychological trauma, for other it will be massive grief and shock, for others it will be loss of self esteem and confidence, for yet others probably their own financial ruin. It will also mean broken families and years of coming to grip with this crime. TM will get over it quicker than many of the others and she still has her life and her kids. So she probably got the best deal in the end.

Ps sorry for my rant, not feeling great (terrible sore throat etc) so having a 'doona day' and probably letting my fingers do the talking.
All IMOO

Rational, do we KNOW that the 290K came from TM?

 

[Blue Bottle]

Unfortunately we have all been involved in this site as if we are Allison's Best Friends...Strange but true.

Owhhh... don't kill me too hard.... I'll probably get cabbages, rats tails and bits of meat pie thrown at me for saying this, but at least I feel free enough here to do so.

I realise you mean it figuratively, metaphorically, and not literally... but... Maybe some people are involved in this site as if they are Allison's Best Friend, but I doubt if that applies to everyone. I've lurked in this site for years and never once have I felt that any approach I have had with any murder victim who I have never known personally, no matter how sad and tragic or how much I can relate and empathise, is through the eyes of that person being my best friend.

I don't understand that type of thinking and feeling. I can't feel that which is not true. I am not Allison's best friend, I do not know her personally nor know what she was really like nor what her hopes and dreams were. I can only see her through the eyes of what I am told about her and what others say about her. I have no way of ever finding out for myself and I know I am just as compassionate and caring towards people as many others here.

Maybe that sounds terrible to some, but I'm not the sort of person who can 'pretend' something unless it's a game like charades or something.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Can someone help me with my memory on whether there were loud arguments coming from the house on the night Allison got home? I seem to remember that neighbours reported raised voices or a fight. I just can't get over thinking about what the girls were doing, and if it was loud enough for the neighbours to hear, how could they sleep through it? sigh......

There was definitely an argument both that night and the previous one. Someone close to me was part of the initial missing persons investigation.

MOO

 

[alicat]

I can't wait to hear what GBC's 'caterpillar incident' is. One thing is obvious (from pictures I've seen) it's not from gardening around his Brookfield home!

 

[annie46664]

Can someone help me with my memory on whether there were loud arguments coming from the house on the night Allison got home? I seem to remember that neighbours reported raised voices or a fight. I just can't get over thinking about what the girls were doing, and if it was loud enough for the neighbours to hear, how could they sleep through it? sigh......

I may easily be incorrect, but if my memory serves me well, then I'm certain that I had read that the PREVIOUS evening somebody had called the QPS reporting suspected or whatever (depending who made the call/s) DV.
I may have even read via another's comment or WS'ing alone, that Allison may have even called & reported DV herself. Mmmm I wonder?
Never-the-less, somebody or maybe even a few, or who knows, maybe the WS'ers at CM possibly, thought that the QPS were already aware of the likelihood of DV being the CAUSE of Allison's sudden & extremely mysterious & unprecedented DISAPPEARANCE. :what:

Oh! And yes, I also read that on THEE supposed night of Allison's murder, (immediate) NEIGHBOURS had heard screams which then became muffled before things suddenly went silent.
They apparently regretted not having done anything ... maybe like going to check themselves, or not reporting such??? Who knows though ~ by the sounds of things, heated rows appear to have been the norm, so as an immediate neighbour, maybe they simply figured that things would return back to what appeared to be normal BC routine the following day?????

Those POOR little girls!

 

[alicat]

Anyone wonder if the CM read this forum and then write articles based on our chats? It was only a few days ago we were talking about GBC losing his 'friends' on facebook.

Tomorrow there will be an article on hairy caterpillars and pictures of incidents with them! ;P

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Perhaps GBC was expecting by 30 June he would gain the profits of his monthly Property Management fees (typically collected at each month's end) had a number of sales due for settlement and the with financial year end anticipated a hefty tax return. I think it's fair that TM would have assumed anything but him killing his wife to collect on life insurance.


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Thanks for your view point. I do think with the amount of debt reported, that monthly property management fees etc would not have cleared it by June 30. Those property fees would be coming in fairly regularly wouldn't they? Not just a one off windfall to clear his debts. Agreed he could be expecting sales to go through. Sure TM could indeed not have thought his solution included killing his wife... but perhaps she did. I do not know her and I am not saying this is the case, but the fact is we don't know- unless of course you do. But as I said we don't we do not have that information.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

There was definitely and argument both that night and the previous one. Someone close to me was part of the initial missing persons investigation.

I didn't place as much focus on this because I honestly believed that the kids were staying with the BC's. It's a whole different kettle of fish with them being at home.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

I may easily be incorrect, but if my memory serves me well, then I'm certain that I had read that the PREVIOUS evening somebody had called the QPS reporting suspected or whatever (depending who made the call/s) DV.
I may have even read via another's comment or WS'ing alone, that Allison may have even called & reported DV herself. Mmmm I wonder?
Never-the-less, somebody or maybe even a few, or who knows, maybe the WS'ers at CM possibly, thought that the QPS were already aware of the likelihood of DV being the CAUSE of Allison's sudden & extremely mysterious & unprecedented DISAPPEARANCE. :what:

Oh! And yes, I also read that on THEE supposed night of Allison's murder, (immediate) NEIGHBOURS had heard screams which then became muffled before things suddenly went silent.
They apparently regretted not having done anything ... maybe like going to check themselves, or not reporting such??? Who knows though ~ by the sounds of things, heated rows appear to have been the norm, so as an immediate neighbour, maybe they simply figured that things would return back to what appeared to be normal BC routine the following day?????

Those POOR little girls!

The screams that were muffled we're heard quite a distance from the house...kilometres away. I think the DV report is a rumour. MOO

 

[SydneySleuth]

Does anyone know when Allison became aware of the affair between GBC & TM?

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I'm struggling to find the time to keep up with all the posts!