NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[MistyWaters]

More from LA Times:

“Please remember this — our focus has been all along finding if there were other unknown subjects and trying to trace his steps and trying to do all these things,” said Roberts. Compiling the sequence of events in the hallway, he said, “has not been the priority for us.”

He said officials hope to release a complete timeline on Friday."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-guard-20171010-story.html

 

[Jax49]

Could Vegas police have taken down the gunman sooner?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.754efb2be7cf

The revised timeline given by investigators for the Las Vegas massacre raises questions about whether better communication might have allowed police to respond more quickly and take out the gunman before he could kill and wound so many people.

“This changes everything,” said Joseph Giacalone, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former New York City police sergeant. “There absolutely was an opportunity in that timeframe that some of this could’ve been mitigated.”

 

[bears10]

IMO LE absolutely owes the public the truth otherwise it appears they are hiding something.

Of course they owe us the truth. But I don’t even think they know the truth. They don’t owe us video surveillance right now. It’s an active investigation. And plus, anything they do release or say gets turned into them being liars or shady for not releasing earlier. I mean it’s been a week, they are still finding things out themselves. What they thought was the truth a week ago could have turned out to be a lie. I think that was proven today. I truly do not believe they are intentionally misleading anyone. I am confident the facts will come out - however it’s prob going to take a bit longer than a week in this situation.

 

[bluesneakers]

No videos in hotel hallways..... at the Mandalay Bay in VEGAS..... lol

Do you think they are trying to avoid handing them over? It seems like the FBI would have a warrant in about five minutes.

 

[Gooddeeds]

More from LA Times:

“Please remember this — our focus has been all along finding if there were other unknown subjects and trying to trace his steps and trying to do all these things,” said Roberts. Compiling the sequence of events in the hallway, he said, “has not been the priority for us.”

He said officials hope to release a complete timeline on Friday."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-guard-20171010-story.html

-Ok, a complete timeline is good to hope for?? Did they tell that to 60 minutes? Anything complete and fact checked is a good thing when dealing with a massacre. Hallways and byways...ALL WAYS are a priority. The security guard was the first contact (starter) with the suspect. Just because he was hiding in the hallways or wherever he was does not mean “we can come back to that”. He was injured by the person who you are trying to contain. What if SP was dressed in a security guard uniform coming down the hallway from another direction?? “We will come back to that” would not be a good move...for sure!

 

[mrsu]

I wish a couple of you would go to the presser with the green tie and see if you can understand the female reporters question that he shut up

it was something like can you can clarify the FBI report ....................about the valet ..........

in light of this recent discovery -- !

I have tried he blocks her out being rude casue she acts like reporters so in pressers during this kinda stuff

I also found it fascinating that with a roomful of reporters (seemed like they were buds) he let one guy , whose name he used a lot , ask a bunch of softball questions while ignorning a a lot of other s

the female was darn good but she finally had to shut up

That was Laura Loomer.

 

[MistyWaters]

Could Vegas police have taken down the gunman sooner?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.754efb2be7cf

More from your link, its not a good sign when a hired Crisis Mngt firm has "No Comment".

"MGM Resorts International, which owns the Mandalay Bay, has referred all inquiries to an outside crisis management team which again declined to comment for the record Tuesday, "

 

[kittythehare]

IMO LE absolutely owes the public the truth otherwise it appears they are hiding something.

Its possible they are hiding incompetence. Its possible they are not publishing their strategy in this case.
BUT its also possible that they do not yet realise the full extent of the case or suspect that others are involved, if thats true they must keep the details under wraps until they know more. Basing that only on Sheriff's statement yesterday, i think, when he inferred perp also eluded them in death,, his secret life..
WDH was on the phones of this person who allegedly communicated with nobody.. he was hardly googling instructions at that stage, was he?

 

[canadiangirl]

Dear Bear

That is unacceptable !!

I look forward to 102,457 in my account shortly!!

I am offering a 000.26 split after ward

What a deal !!


I am kidding i am kidding !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course they owe us the truth. But I don’t even think they know the truth. They don’t owe us video surveillance right now. It’s an active investigation. And plus, anything they do release or say gets turned into them being liars or shady for not releasing earlier. I mean it’s been a week, they are still finding things out themselves. What they thought was the truth a week ago could have turned out to be a lie. I think that was proven today. I truly do not believe they are intentionally misleading anyone. I am confident the facts will come out - however it’s prob going to take a bit longer than a week in this situation.

I'm late to the party on this thread and don't have time to read all the comments. Has anyone googled the "high incident project"? I found it very interesting.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[mrsu]

Of course they owe us the truth. But I don’t even think they know the truth. They don’t owe us video surveillance right now. It’s an active investigation. And plus, anything they do release or say gets turned into them being liars or shady for not releasing earlier. I mean it’s been a week, they are still finding things out themselves. What they thought was the truth a week ago could have turned out to be a lie. I think that was proven today. I truly do not believe they are intentionally misleading anyone. I am confident the facts will come out - however it’s prob going to take a bit longer than a week in this situation.

Speaking only for myself, then I wish they would simply say, we don’t know everything yet and when we are 100% sure of things we will report them. I’m not saying I don’t believe them but you have to admit this is a pretty big f*ck up and does not make them look good.

 

[Gooddeeds]

-Do you think Wynns comment about the service elevator sparked a new immediate policy for MB to allow high rollers in the service elevator? Or was that comp in place at MB already?

If so, in my opinion that puts the “service elevator” in a new category. Typically it’s used for vendors-food service-beverages-linens-cleaning supplies-replacement furnishings-paper products-chips and more. Typically a manifest is signed/checked off for this department or that department. I haven’t seen theirs but service elevators are not groomed and refreshing. There is a lot of lingering sweat.

 

[CARIIS]

That was Laura Loomer. She was asking about the valet receipts showing the shooter arriving at the hotel days earlier than police claimed at first. He gave way that this was, in fact, the case in the next answer.

guys

in a lot of cases we can lock down the timeline after a bit while MSM is still effing it up

what else can this be ?

Incompetence

or mucking things up

same thing happened with the gfriend

she not a poi

she might be a poi

she is close to being a poi

we are dragging her off a plane

same thing happened with having to go back and research everything

I think they were gonna do it there way

FBI came in

FBi is not ok with what is going on

FBI said it -- sheriff said he would rather keep the false time thing alone

that is lying

it is mucking things up in what is a complicated thing maybe

lives may depend

he was the worst (presser person)I have seen him (green tie interview_

he is used to being in control you can tell that by observing how he interacts with the press

outside of one person he has been the rudest one I have ever seen

they have had some problems in the past

it stops at the top

this is not conspiracy stuff


I provided 4 links from local new media reporting on the problems under his direction

he is older ways and beliefs don't change all that much

several times there have been blunders

they have stricken me more as all of a sudden realizing that if I say this that may change that

that is why he constantly says go slower when he gets asked too many questions rapid fire

its hard to keep up if your not just doing it as it really happens

careers have personalities

generally speaking again generally speaking IMo Le folks tend IMO to be organized confident he looks flustered all the time

he is in a major city I understood it when the Rhoden family head cop had difficulty !!

I tend to go with my gut -- he bothered me very early on (second presser) something

I could not put my finger on it

hey if it is just incompetence then FBI should take lead

I think they will - they just did not want to do bull in the china shop

then as they are

seeing stuff they will take over moo

a straight up LE person FBI guy is just not gonna be ok with him wanting to just leave the timeline lie alone -- thats ethics moral stuff

I def thought the statement by the FBI guy that we will get to the truth was breathtaking-- way before all this happened

their body language does not IMO spell teamwork!


and............!.........the FBI dude kinda hits like a serious chap!!

The FBI is the agency already investigating his dept -- imo logic might indicate that a straight shooter might not respect the head of a LE agency his dept is investigating

kinda human nature in a way

only mo but some of it is watch em together - they cant make eye contact

just in terms of physical personal ; boundaries moo he is standing awful close all the time -- if he was taller he would be towering !!!

body language imo is really fascinating

when a huge component of this kind of case ( electronic forensic stuff ) he threw it to the FBI dude so fast ... and that guy cut off any conversation of that angle

imo this stuff has meaning

moo I feel like they are not going to lunch together!!

 

[m00c0w]

I'm not sure if anyone would find this valuable information, but here's another data point. I was digging through my range bag for an unrelated reason and realized I still had some .308 rounds. So here's an image that should give those unfamiliar with firearms the relative sizes of the most predominant rounds used during the shooting. The smaller round is .223 Remington, the larger is .308 Winchester.

As has been pointed out earlier upthread, the .223/5.56 round is a fairly small, high-velocity round. It's just a hair bigger than a .22 round in diameter.

The actual bullet of a .308 is the same 7.62mm round you'd find in an AK-47, 30-30, 30-06, and most of those other .30 projectiles. The difference is in the cartridge and powder load. It's has just a slightly lower velocity than the .223 round, but is heavier, so expends more energy upon impact. These are the rounds allegedly fired at the fuel tanks, likely because it has an effective range of about 800m when fired from the AR-10 platform, compared to the 500-600m from an the .223 round fired out of an AR-15 platform. According to the newest reports, these are also the incendiary rounds he was using. While I don't know the specifics on exactly what type of ammo he was using, this likely means that they produced a small explosion upon impact. Incendiary capabilities are usually found in a round with combination of armor piercing and incendiary properties, but those are generally restricted from sale to private individuals.

:twocents:

 

[m00c0w]

I'm late to the party on this thread and don't have time to read all the comments. Has anyone googled the "high incident project"? I found it very interesting.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Ha, yeah. It's strange, but a lot of people make predictions all the time on that website. I'm more willing to attribute that to a broken clock being right twice a day versus an actual insider with foresight.

 

[m00c0w]

-Do you think Wynns comment about the service elevator sparked a new immediate policy for MB to allow high rollers in the service elevator? Or was that comp in place at MB already?

If so, in my opinion that puts the “service elevator” in a new category. Typically it’s used for vendors-food service-beverages-linens-cleaning supplies-replacement furnishings-paper products-chips and more. Typically a manifest is signed/checked off for this department or that department. I haven’t seen theirs but service elevators are not groomed and refreshing. There is a lot of lingering sweat.

Wynn's comment was in theory about the shooter using a service elevator at MB. The policy would have already been in place, and would have been one of many comps he received at Mandalay. Wynn was saying they'd never allow such a thing at his resorts.

 

[Gooddeeds]

guys

in a lot of cases we can lock down the timeline after a bit while MSM is still effing it up

what else can this be ?

Incompetence

or mucking things up

same thing happened with the gfriend

she not a poi

she might be a poi

she is close to being a poi

we are dragging her off a plane

same thing happened with having to go back and research everything

I think they were gonna do it there way

FBI came in

FBi is not ok with what is going on

FBI said it -- sheriff said he would rather keep the false time thing alone

that is lying

it is mucking things up in what is a complicated thing maybe

lives may depend

he was the worst I have seen him (green tie interview_

he is used to being in control you can tell that by observing how he interacts with the press

outside of one person he has been the rudest one I have ever seen

they have had some problems in the past

it stops at the top

this is not conspiracy stuff


I provided 4 links from local new media reporting on the problems under his direction

he is older ways and beliefs don't change all that much

several times there have been blunders

they have stricken me more as all of a sudden realizing that if I say this that may change that

that is why he constantly says go slower when he gets asked too many questions rapid fire

its hard to keep up if your not just doing it as it really happens

careers have personalities

generally speaking again generally speaking IMo Le folks tend IMO to be organized confident he looks flustered all the time

he is in a major city I understood it when the Rhoden family head cop had difficulty !!

I tend to go with my gut -- he bothered me very early on (second presser) something

I could not put my finger on it

hey if it is just incompetence then FBI should take lead

I think they will - they just did not want to do bull in the china shop

then as they are

aseeing stuff

I def thought the statement by the FBI guy that we will get to the truth was breathtaking-- way before all this happened

their body language does not IMO spell teamwork!


and............!.........the FBI dude kinda hits like a serious chap!!

The FBI is the agency already investigating his dept -- imo logic might indicate that a straight shooter might not respect the head of a LE agency his dept is investigating

kinda human nature in a way

only mo but some of it is watch em together - they cant make eye contact

just in terms of physical personal ; boundaries moo he is standing awful close all the time -- if he was taller he would be towering !!!

body language imo is really fascinating

when a huge component of this kind of case ( electronic forensic stuff ) he threw it to the FBI dude so fast ... and that guy cut off any conversation of that angle

imo this stuff has meaning

I honestly don't

moo I feel like they are going to lunch together!!

-Cariis, spot on in my opinion.
Please no cover ups for anyone...ever. That is not encouraging for anyone.

 

[m00c0w]

MGM, the owner of Mandalay Bay, issued a statement after this report aired saying they "cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publicly, and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate."​

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-massacre-timeline-shift-questions-stephen-paddock/

Sigh.

 

[bears10]

Speaking only for myself, then I wish they would simply say, we don’t know everything yet and when we are 100% sure of things we will report them. I’m not saying I don’t believe them but you have to admit this is a pretty big f*ck up and does not make them look good.

Yeah for sure. Unfortunately they were under a microscope and had to make a statement. And then they kept making statements, which probably wasn’t to their benefit bc here we are with people accusing them of lying. I don’t think Local LE was equipped to deal with the media in this case since, especially since it’s (rightfully) so publicized. What LE agency is prepared to make statements for something like this? I am sure if we go back to the initial reports from 9/11, I’m sure guilini said things we could pick apart.

And before I get attacked - yes I realize he’s the mayor and not sheriff- I live here - but he was the one making public statements on behalf of the city.

 

[CARIIS]

Wynn's comment was in theory about the shooter using a service elevator at MB. The policy would have already been in place, and would have been one of many comps he received at Mandalay. Wynn was saying they'd never allow such a thing at his resorts.

HOnestly

I can only come up with one reason why a dude that likes the finer stuff really would prefer to ride in an ugly stinky freight elevator that carries garbage!

Especially when there are really nice ones with some of the Carpenters music playing gently in the air conditioned clean smelling background

 

[Gooddeeds]

Wynn's comment was in theory about the shooter using a service elevator at MB. The policy would have already been in place, and would have been one of many comps he received at Mandalay. Wynn was saying they'd never allow such a thing at his resorts.

-Got it. Then it can’t be a true service elevator? I can see a VIP private one, but not a typical service elevator. They are filthy.