NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #5

[canadiangirl]

in this instance in this generations obsession of filming everything

raw video from the scene of anything is not fake news

its a recording from someone at some angle at some time at some place in an event

just because is it YT does not = fake news

what can be more real than being able to watch what transpired , in any event with your own eyes ??

NOthing

imo

<rsbm> great post. Asking questions and watching people's videos that were there isn't fake news. I'm sure police/FBI are quite thankful at times since most of the time THEY weren't even there yet. And IMO they ask themselves the same questions we ask. Just not in a public forum.. MOO

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Iona]

i do not know if this is the case all the time

but just last week went to a page

looked fine

but something did not feel right

and there was date relevance

low and behold

it had no dateline

i thought ah ha one way maybe to determine if its BS -- dateline of any story is just basic journalism imo

but I was curious

it had a email bla bla at the bottom

I put it in

it came back like you are crazy there is not such email !!!!

I am not into this fake news rampage sweeping the USA -- there is a lot of fake news screaming everything else is fake news!

That is fake news!

If one sticks with legends in the business

as far as poss in the internet world one is doing the best they can

but imo all this nonsense about WP NYT
ABC NBC CBS PBS etc etc are enduring award winning news outlets that have serious editorial boards .

It is fake news claiming these operations fake news ! moo

It is out of control -- we all know where this hysteria originated from

Is there crazy stuff YT sure

in this instance in this generations obsession of filming everything

raw video from the scene of anything is not fake news

its a recording from someone at some angle at some time at some place in an event

just because is it YT does not = fake news

what can be more real than being able to watch what transpired , in any event with your own eyes ??

NOthing

imo

Agree 200 %, but tread carefully...[emoji40]

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Iona]

I read that, Very interesting i seeing him and listening to him and seeing his body language!

But this is a crisis on this end!

I do not like vomiting !

The thought of watching hearing seeing Hannity is very very disturbing.

I went thro the same crisis with Trump Jr

I decided I attempt it !

After heaving ! took 4.9 secs

I decided to instanly click away from the moron imo

and comforted myself with the thought that in this day and age -- in 15 min it will be on YT with only Jr talking and then I did not have to see hear listen to Hannity.

It was a smashing success i am happy to report

If your curious about sec guard but Hannity results in hurling find comfort Campus statement will be avail right afterwards

soothing facts !

Omg. . . I know, Hannity does not put me at ease all. I want to hear from J.C . also, but I wish it was one / all of the networks in a sit down/ dateline type interview. I am suspicious of everyone's "Agenda", and we all should be in these times we live. ..

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[JaneEyre]

What time does a typical shift start? 10p-10a? 11-11? 12-12? He could be in the venue already if it is 45 mins before a 10pm shift and still make it to work on time. Not saying this is the case and it's off track of the discussion. I don't mind people discussing theories, but don't make something up to suit your own theory.

Something is up with JC IMO. What, I don't know. Is it because he's Hispanic? Absolutely not. Is it because he was there at the time of the shooting and stories are changing now? Absolutely.

Again as FBI has said, shouldn't be that hard. Did he call it in before or after? What time did his shift start? Is it possible he was at the event before he was actually scheduled for work? Does he fit the description BH mentioned a full 45mins before the shooting actually happened?? After all she made it back to her room just fine before it all went down.
Why is there private security outside of his home? Usually people who are fearful of something hire security. They don't know where the guy was 6 mins before or after? Which can be tracked. Do they know where he was 45mins before? Who knows. All MOO

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Ok, he was shot while doing rounds at 9:59 pm. Breanna said the encounter with the crazy lady occurred about 45 minutes before the shooting started at 10:05 ish. So you're looking at this guy being in the middle of the crowd toward the stage at 9:20. So when are you saying he started his shift? At 9:30? If so, he somehow gets back from a break at 9:30 or starts his shift at 9:30, and ends up doing rounds on the 32nd floor within less than 30 minutes of that.

He's not going to be starting a shift at a quarter til anything. If it was shift start, it had to be 9:30, leaving him 10 minutes to get escorted out, dressed for shift, and into work. Or, if he was on a "break," that break had to have begun around 9 pm and ended around 9:45, with him changing clothes before and after, wading through 22,000 people, etc. It just doesn't add up.

Give me a time layout here that makes sense to you for him to be the same man. Include clothing changes, time to get in and out of the building, time to get close to the stage, the time spent being escorted out, all of it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

Agreed.. It doesn't mean the woman had anything to do with it at all, but possible knowledge. Again, coincidences? BH changed what she said after she found out it was only one shooter. Initially she thought 3 shooters. However she also said she retreated to her room after she heard the threat from the the woman. Her initial instincts told her something in the moment and now because it's said there's only one shooter something changes for her? So what if SP wasn't the lone person? MOO

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

IMO that is the most stunning angle to all of this

The intense fake news stuff about the very real possibility that there was way more one shooter

THAT imo is far more logical than a 64 year old did this all by himself .

We dont know that at all -- at all --in fact if folks read and watch forensic trajectory professionials who spend their careers , have PHD in the profession and have being doing exactly this field for decages can come up with the possiblity that we do not know any such thing .

Especially from some Sheriff who has no clue what forensic gun investigation is

It becomes even more spectacular that our Sheriff ruled out more than shooter while people were still running away from scene.

Unless he is psychic him running around blabbing that it is only shooter makes him more of fool than what has emerged since in terms of his capabilities .

moo

your all sharp -- find some serious forensic folks , not a YouTuber claiming to hear something.

Seek the pros who are running audio through expensive machines -- working formulas that are proven to be capable of providing concrete data.

It is simple but wildly complicated stuff. Its physics. Same stuff used to design aircraft , go to the moon etc etc

After watching one , each of us can them on our determine

did the presenter:

appear knowledgeable
effectively explain and support conclusions
appeared to have no investment in an agenda

basically same thing one does with a professor !!

There is some stunning stuff out there

its not all whackjobs

was actually fascinating !

we have zero proof that one person did all this .........

zero

moo

I do however find it interesting that the last name of a perp greatly influences how initial reporting is reported regarding this question

 

[Iona]

IMO that is the most stunning angle to all of this

The intense fake news stuff about the very real possibility that there was way more one shooter

THAT imo is far more logical than a 64 year old did this all by himself .

We dont know that at all -- at all --in fact if folks read and watch forensic trajectory professionials who spend their careers , have PHD in the profession and have being doing exactly this field for decages can come up with the possiblity that we do not know any such thing .

Especially from some Sheriff who has no clue what forensic gun investigation is

It becomes even more spectacular that our Sheriff ruled out more than shooter while people were still running away from scene.

Unless he is psychic him running around blabbing that it is only shooter makes him more of fool than what has emerged since in terms of his capabilities .

moo

your all sharp -- find some serious forensic folks , not a YouTuber claiming to hear something.

Seek the pros who are running audio through expensive machines -- working formulas that are proven to be capable of providing concrete data.

It is simple but wildly complicated stuff. Its physics. Same stuff used to design aircraft , go to the moon etc etc

After watching one , each of us can them on our determine

did the presenter:

appear knowledgeable
effectively explain and support conclusions
appeared to have no investment in an agenda

basically same thing one does with a professor !!

There is some stunning stuff out there

its not all whackjobs

was actually fascinating !

we have zero proof that one person did all this .........

zero

moo

I do however find it interesting that the last name of a perp greatly influences how initial reporting is reported regarding this question

Indeed...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Cryptic]

A trespasser if they are a guest? I don't know how that works... .

It works the same way that purchasing a ticket to an NFL game (becoming a paying "guest") does not mean that I will be allowed to stay for the entire game if I violate the owner's rules of conduct or requests. Rather, I would be ejected. If I refuse to leave, I am risking a night in jail.

Going back to hotel guests:

Guests get tossed out of hotels for a variety of reasons: behavior deemed rowdy, disrespect to staff, refusal to follow instructions, breaking other rules etc. If they refuse to leave, then they are trespassing and can be arrested.

I bet Spring Break in South Padre sees a lot of paying hotel guests getting arrested for trespassing once they get "unguested" and refuse to leave. In the end, neither hotel guests nor football guests have any guarantee of occupancy.

 

[m00c0w]

A trespasser if they are a guest? I don't know how that works, and you are right, it probably varies state to state... My mind is a little creeped out now, when I think of all the times, I have been in hotels, in the bar , lobby, computer room, gym , pool etc. Feeling totally relaxed, watching with no particular interest as full carts of luggage, baggage strolled by or remained in one spot for hours!! Since Sept. 11, in any other environment, luggage, bags, purses, even diaper bags have commanded immediate and extra attention.
( Sometimes even getting checked/ blown up by robots )
Yet, even as I type this, I know if I were at that hotel, I would have no fear, or alarm at any amount of luggage. As a regular customer, I would not be concerned with a 60ish white guy walking with/ ahead of a bellboy with lots of bags. It is not my nature to be that concerned with a stranger, who for all I know could have 3 wives, and 18 kids in the parking lot! There is also a comfort level that I was used to in a hotel ( home away from home) .
Unfortunately, I know I will never be able to possess that level of comfort in any hotel environment.
Before this incident, as a mom of 4 who consistently overpacks, it would irk and appaul me if someone were that concerned with mine...
These are very scary and chilling times we are living in, I think we all know how much things will change...[emoji22]

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Statistically, the world is actually the safest it's ever been. Everyone is just more aware of the crazies because it's publicized more, the 24-hour news cycle, and the interwebs.

 

[Iona]

It works the same way that purchasing a ticket to an NFL game (becoming a paying "guest") does not mean that I will be allowed to stay for the entire game if I violate the owner's rules of conduct. The rules in question can be fair, unfair, consistently enforced or sporadically enforced.

Going back to hotel guests: Guests get tossed out of hotels for a variety of reasons: behavior deemed rowdy, disrespect to staff, refusal to follow instructions,. breaking other rules etc. If they refuse to leave, then they are trespassing and can be arrested. I bet Spring Break in South Padre sees a lot of paying hotel guests getting arrested for trespassing once they refuse to leave after being "un guested".

In the end, neither hotel guests nor football guests have any guarantee of occupancy.

I think I misunderstood the original statement. I agree and I am aware of all you posted. I was thinking in terms of 1. It is not unusual behavior at a hotel to have numerous bags .
2. At a hotel, unless there is cause for concern, ( A directive from Law enforcement) there would be absolutely no reason to search/question /inquire, or even comment on a guest bags.
3. Before the Las Vegas shooting, Any deviation from the above would be a direct violation of laws in all states.
4. My point is, this man's behavior did not warrant any suspicion, he was in the perfect environment, in addition, he was a "wealthy regular" .
5. Before this incident, anyone who even thought of questioning his bags, would surely be looked at like "Nosey Nellie the Neighbor".

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Iona]

Statistically, the world is actually the safest it's ever been. Everyone is just more aware of the crazies because it's publicized more, the 24-hour news cycle, and the interwebs.

I have heard this before, I disagree. It is my opinion, that we are only as safe as the information we receive ...
Hence the quote, "Knowledge is power "...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Do not go off topic. This thread is about the Las Vegas tragedy.

I hate to be such a hard *** but I am going to have to start timing people out.

Tricia

 

[Lilibet]

OT: I&#8217;m just stopping by to alert everyone that there is a major catastrophe happening in the California wine country fires. At least 23 have died, thousands have lost their homes and businesses, including wineries, and possibly 500 are missing. This is affecting WSers. Support on the thread is needed. Thank you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...dfires-Deaths-Hundreds-of-Buildings-Destroyed

 

[Cryptic]

I think I misunderstood the original statement. I agree and I am aware of all you posted. I was thinking in terms of 1. It is not unusual behavior at a hotel to have numerous bags .
2. At a hotel, unless there is cause for concern, ( A directive from Law enforcement) there would be absolutely no reason to search/question /inquire, or even comment on a guest bags.
3. Before the Las Vegas shooting, Any deviation from the above would be a direct violation of laws in all states.
4. My point is, this man's behavior did not warrant any suspicion, he was in the perfect environment, in addition, he was a "wealthy regular" .
5. Before this incident, anyone who even thought of questioning his bags, would surely be looked at like "Nosey Nellie the Neighbor".

I think you are 100% right in regards that there was nothing about SP's number of bags that would raise any concern from a hotel employee. The fact that he was a wealthy regular made it even more unlikely that he would be approached about his luggage. I would not be surprised if staff are even directed to ignore minor concerns such as low level theft to avoid making scenes.

As you said, baring something extreme, there is no way that the Mandalay Bay casino was going to approach SP in the same way as: Hey, spring breakers, no fireworks allowed in the hotel! Let me see whats in those sacks- or I'll throw you out".

 

[CARIIS]

Both, I guess? Here's a link to the original ABC News article written after they interviewed Campos by phone:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/security-guard-las-vegas-gunman-unarmed/story?id=50290318



He was patrolling the hotel when he got an alert about a door alarm on the 32nd floor. Schuck got a similar alert that called him to the 32nd floor.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...ker-narrowly-escaped-gunman-s-rampage-n809726

Ugh - the video had a pic of the door in it ............

the pic of the door just blows me away!! (no pun intended)

The bullets certainly did not blow the door away either!

a door that has been shot through 200 times by machine gun blown up by cops is stunning

clean and fresh has a few things off

carpet outside the door is pristine - that is amazing carpet -- talk scotch guard !!

The paint on the walls around the doors dont even a touch up

the framing around both doors like A Ok from the pic we have been given

the machine gun on the body is resting comfortably on his left leg

"shooters" tee shirt and jeans are fine not even a little rip after firing 2000 rounds of stuff

the arm in the picture does not even have a little boo boo , no bruise no scrapes no burn marks

his sneakers as far as you can tell seems to be burn resistant as well -- from the videos I have seen of those guns being fired it looks like the shells fly all over the place

I did see like 8 or 9 holes in it

there was also no burn marks from bullets that are hot as heck on the carpet in the battlefield !

If they all were behind that curtain then I would think that curtain has some pretty intense fire protection since there perfect !

no glass shards near the broken window
curtain?

guns are on the carpet to -- from what i have learned is people wear gloves cause the guns get so hot

if one set a pan that just fried some chicken ! on ones carpet would there be come discoloring

the carpet under all these raging hot machines is perfect -- they don't even need to be vacuumed !

My lady love bug makes more of a carpet mess with her claws !! She is energetic but ...

The furniture in the room does not even look like it would need to replaced --

its a major news story reporters are everywhere, apparently no reporter wanted to capture a shot or three of the giant aviation fuel tanks

The area is surrounded by electronic signs -- somehow any sign right around the shooting rampage is disturbed, pristine

foliage surrounding the area are beautiful , not even a ripped leave , a disturbed bark - no dents in any trees in line of fire

cars were still driving by in the videos somehow a vehicle did not seem to even get hit ?

No cop cars were damaged it appears

no lights atop of cop cars were shot out?

luckily only one of all the cops in the area were hit

the instant the shots were heard concert staff turned on all the white lights - not one bulb got hit by flood of bullets flying everywhere

the plastic on a lot of the fences were not hit by this barrage of bullets

it seems as if all bullets just went only into bodies -- never hitting anything else in there path ??

No smoke was seen flowing out of the broken windows during the shooting

anyone wanna see what stuff looks like after machine guns are blowing up all over the place check out PUlse pictures
!


IMO .. both literally and figuratively all we need to do is open our eyes

we are pretend detectives explore the pics !!


its so silly ya all

 

[Iona]

OT: I’m just stopping by to alert everyone that there is a major catastrophe happening in the California wine country fires. At least 23 have died, thousands have lost their homes and businesses, including wineries, and possibly 500 are missing. This is affecting WSers. Support on the thread is needed. Thank you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...dfires-Deaths-Hundreds-of-Buildings-Destroyed

Thanks Lilibet, I took time last night to take notice of it in this forum. Absolutely horrifying how many disasters are happening all at the same time ...[emoji22]
Probably would be an excellent time to mention that Puerto Rico is still experiencing deaths daily... Even in bad times, we are so lucky on this side of the water, hopefully people will remain compassionate and open their hearts and wallets, during the upcoming Holiday Season...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Isabelle]

-How does Workman’s Comp apply in ‘random patrol’?

If he was on the clock, he should be covered, unless the people he works for says he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. The company can throw a wrench into the process.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think you are 100% right in regards that there was nothing about SP's number of bags that would raise any concern from a hotel employee. The fact that he was a wealthy regular made it even more unlikely that he would be approached about his luggage.

As you said, baring something extreme, there is no way that the Mandalay Bay casino was going to approach SP in the same way as: Hey, spring breakers, no fireworks allowed in the hotel! Let me see whats in those sacks- or I'll throw you out".

That's a good way to describe it.

I found a link to State of Nevada's CHAPTER 651 - PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-651.html

One section of the Act specifically addresses death or injury on the premises, however there's no mention of civil liability resulting in death or injury to the general public caused by a guest. But I agree, my opinion only, given SP apparently arrived on Sept 25th and perhaps made trips back and forth, by October 1 it would seem he had plenty of time to amass his huge array of weaponry gradually and not cause any suspicion that he had intent to commit a "wrongful act" through their hotel window.



NRS&#8194;651.015&#8194;&#8194;Civil liability of innkeepers for death or injury of person on premises caused by person who is not employee.
1.&#8194;&#8194;An owner or keeper of any hotel, inn, motel, motor court, boardinghouse or lodging house is not civilly liable for the death or injury of a patron or other person on the premises caused by another person who is not an employee under the control or supervision of the owner or keeper unless:
(a)&#8194;The wrongful act which caused the death or injury was foreseeable; and
(b)&#8194;There is a preponderance of evidence that the owner or keeper did not exercise due care for the safety of the patron or other person on the premises.
2.&#8194;&#8194;An owner or keeper of any hotel, inn, motel, motor court, boardinghouse or lodging house is civilly liable for the death or injury of a patron or other person on the premises caused by another person who is not an employee under the control or supervision of the owner or keeper if:
(a)&#8194;The wrongful act which caused the death or injury was foreseeable; and
(b)&#8194;The owner or keeper failed to take reasonable precautions against the foreseeable wrongful act.
Ê The court shall determine as a matter of law whether the wrongful act was foreseeable and whether the owner or keeper had a duty to take reasonable precautions against the foreseeable wrongful act of the person who caused the death or injury.
3.&#8194;&#8194;For the purposes of this section, a wrongful act is not foreseeable unless:
(a)&#8194;The owner or keeper failed to exercise due care for the safety of the patron or other person on the premises; or
(b)&#8194;Prior incidents of similar wrongful acts occurred on the premises and the owner or keeper had notice or knowledge of those incidents.
(Added to NRS by 1995, 2670)

 

[Gooddeeds]

If he was on the clock, he should be covered, unless the people he works for says he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. The company can throw a wrench into the process.

-I know nothing about Work-comp, Union coverage. Would it be generous enough for there not to be a *need* for Go-Fund? I’m sure there are many victims who have no coverage and Go-Fund could be a life changer for them.

 

[ohreally]

Does anyone know if Vegas has the technology to hear (pinpoint) gunshots within the city? I don't know what the technology is called, but I have seen in several cases where in some cities law enforcement has this technology. If they do could it show only shots were fired from the 32nd floor windows not from the ground?

 

[CARIIS]

Does anyone know if Vegas has the technology to hear (pinpoint) gunshots within the city? I don't know what the technology is called, but I have seen in several cases where in some cities law enforcement has this technology. If they do could it show only shots were fired from the 32nd floor windows not from the ground?

The trajectory experts on YT do that .

They have matched up video audio seperated them and choreographed them and run them through computer programs


do something like forensic trajectories on YT some really presenters have made videos