NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #5

[citigirl]

Not to get fingers wagged at me for talking about unions... but I have a feeling that this is being used as a publicity stunt by this particular union. I feel like they're parading him around like a prize pony or something. It's especially clear in the photo they took of him where he's looking like "Wtf is even going on" and they have their special union badge around his neck, with a special union plaque, and their union logos on union hats... It reeks to me. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Does anyone know anything about the relationship between casinos and unions in Las Vegas, particularly, Are they adversarial? Or is it possible they are working together?

 

[Iona]

I agree. I don't actually think it's all that odd for siblings not to know real in depth stuff about each other, especially men from that generation. What's odd is that he seemed to think he did know him better.

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Yep, kind of goes back to that weird family dynamic: Father, shooter,and brother seem to be "overly enthusiastic about their own abilities, intelligence, and "perceived victimization"... A tad grandiose and narcissistic in my opinion...

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[CARIIS]

Lombardo said Friday that while an initial written report of the night showed that Campos had been shot at 9:59 p.m., further examination revealed something different: Campos had tried to access the 32nd floor, but found a door barricaded. He ascended to another level in order to get to the 32nd floor.
He went to the door that was ajar, Lombardo said, “mitigated the situation and subsequently received fire from the suspect.” That happened around 10:05 p.m., which is also when Paddock began to shoot at the concert.

These are the kinda things that are bewildering .

Were 14 days in--this above , like a lots of other ought to go it would seem imo would go like this "

so what happened?

I went to 32nd floor - could not get in - went up 1 and then got back down to 32.

Person who did this JC was alive the night of this . We can assume he was interviewed, Its a person explaining where he walked

Is there something complicated about this?

How can a basic piece of uncomplicated ifo take 14 days to be reported on by officials?

alarm indicating that a room door was ajar,

ajar


Doors can open or not open. Where is all the confusion about the door was drilled closed .

So does that mean that night no one could figure out if he was initially sent for an open door

Or are we to think that a 3000 room facility does not write down what work orders are needed.

It just is we really have not learned anything new, meaningful or investigatory,

Honestly, for the rest of the world - hey ok he go there at 1004 or 1007 or whatever- move on

some door was open or not -- it fact none of this has anything to do with a whole bunch of other important stuff

Did we learn anything in the presser other than they are having trouble with the basics .

People make mistakes ok so now tell us something that means something - provides insight explains something provides insight

1004 1007 open closed

hopefully the investigation might do something that explains something

As it relates to more than one shooter it is more than a valid question. In fact imo it is likely.

Seems like some folks with some training in how to use sophisticated weapons might do it more effectively than a 62 year old "gambler"

Why people get so upset at the possibility that there was in fact more than a an old 62 year gambler ought not IMO be wiped off the table by day two cause a sheriff that is still trying to figure out basic thing or two.

 

[enelram]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...shooters-brother-fires-lawyers-in-estate-case


-Updated 7:22 pm
The brother of mass shooter Stephen Paddock had a hard time Thursday finding an attorney to manage the gunman’s estate.
After firing a law firm that had agreed to handle the estate, Eric Paddock was ***unable to strike a deal***with any other lawyers.

“The majority of lawyers here are representing victims, so the only choice may be to let the court approve somebody,” said attorney Stephen Stubbs, who Paddock hired to help him find a law firm.
Paddock tried to do the right thing, said Stubbs, who Paddock also later fired.
“I tried. I’m done,” Paddock told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “I’m going home as soon as possible.”

Clear Counsel Law Group, the firm Paddock fired, withdrew a court petition to oversee distribution of the funds from the shooter’s estate.
“I’m very upset and disappointed with the law firm because ***they didn’t honor my instructions that I paid them to do***in communicating with the media,” Paddock said.

Paddock, who lives in Orlando, Florida, previously told the Review-Journal that he came to Las Vegas last week to help gather his brother’s assets for the victims. He also was interviewed extensively by FBI agents and Las Vegas police.

Clear Counsel partner, Jonathan Barlow, said in a statement before the firm was fired that he had filed the petition in District Court on Wednesday.
“The estate is being opened in order to collect and preserve the shooter’s assets for the victims,” Barlow said in the statement, which was prepared by a public relations firm.

He later told the Review-Journal: “Our interest is to help the victims with the probate, but if his brother wants to go in a different direction, he’s entitled to hire a different firm.”
Barlow said in the statement that the value of the shooter’s estate has not been determined.

Eric Paddock told the Review-Journal previously that getting victims money from his brother’s estate is a big priority for him in Las Vegas.
Family lawyers for one of the victims have filed court papers seeking the appointment of Clark County Public Administrator John Cahill to take control of the shooter’s assets, including a $369,000 Mesquite home.
But a judge has not yet taken any action on the matter.
Contact Jeff German at jgerman@reviewjournal.com or 702-380-4564.

Well, maybe Eric isn't so benevolent after all. What I read- between the lines- is that Eric wanted the law firm to say one thing to the media, but do another thing- turn assets over to Eric instead of victims. Local attorneys are wise
to pull away and not tarnish their local reputation. Not to mention, Eric appears a little difficult as a client. I'd walk away also.

 

[enelram]

One thing I'm surprised about is MB has no cameras in the hallways. Do other hotels have cameras? Is it just MGM properties that don't?? Or just the MB? Did SP know this from being a frequent guest of these hotels? I was sure there were cameras everywhere except the bathroom in Vegas

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Last week there was an interview on TV with a casino security manager and they were in the security room with all the
monitors and the security guy said in their casino they have cameras covering 98% of the entire facility. Reporter asked him what was the 2% not covered, and sec. mgr. did not know.

If FBI is taking over the investigation, maybe they can force MGM to be more transparent w/ videos of the hotel.

 

[kittythehare]

I have just been contacted about this story.
The lady, who has apparently given several interviews , was present and survived the LV shooting.
She allegedly reported multiple shooters were present.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/zz/ne...r-california-charity-co-founder-dies-suddenly

Now several of the known fake news sites have reported on what she saw..
my friend who just contacted me re this story had read her facebook page last night. She had multiple posts regarding the lV event. These have all been mysteriously removed, overnight.
Thats unusual.

I'm not going to link to the conspiracy sites here..

 

[CARIIS]

Not strictly true. If the questions are geared towards a conspiracy theory, then it's headed into CT-land. There is a big difference between asking questions geared towards CT theories and what was discussed in the article (a comparison and partial analysis of two mass shootings).

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how is thinking there were more than a 62 year old gambler = conspiracy?

If we were talking about a 62 year old whose resume looked something like:

Navy seal for 12 years

Promoted to top navy seal for 3 years

Trained 348 Seals throughout this carrer

Ranked 4 best sniper in agencies history

well possibly

a 62 year old that has not been employed for three decades - who is now a millionaire from playing a video game for hours
presents some valid questions imo.

Not conspiracy theories. A valid topic to explore.

A discussion of financial records would be helpful

If he is so solo and so alone and such a lone wolf then the 200 CCTV spottings they have of him supposedly talking to no one ever ought to be easy to discuss

we saw him eating a sand at he then walked to a water fountain bla bla

The stance now is we are not discussing any of his movements the day of massacre.

Again this is not conspiracy stuff its reality a refusal to discuss a person who is alone all the time in logical fashion probably indicates that - in fact -he was in contact with people .


How could a person not taking or interacting with anyone at anytime possibly impacting an investigation.

Logic, not a conspiracy theory would raise the possibility that the interactions he might have had that final 24 hours are in reality quite significant. Just doing some logical speculation and pondering.


People who might be helping to set up the biggest mass shooting in the history of the nation

IMO the problem actually is who he WAS interacting with, who was seen with bags,etc etc .

I am only speculating here , but most of us have seen movies where they are (speculating only) do a sting operation to get all the bad guys.

And to get all the evidence they set up cameras everywhere (inside the room outside the room)so later in court they have documentation of the operation.

Am I saying that is what was going on. No. Am I saying it is a logical question. Historically folks that are getting ready to murder as many people as possible do not set up video equipment to record themselves committing murders. \\

Is that a conspiracy theory? No LE has repeatedly stated that they found recording equipment inside and outside of the room

Is that worthy of exploration - imo yes - it is very odd and strange and atypical. moo

Is that a far out conspiracy theory. No , it is a well known fact that LE records sting operations in order to catch bad guys .

I am stating as fact that what happened> I am not. Is it a technique used by LE. Is that a conspiracy theory?

No sting operations are a fact.

If he had 84 roses in his room - well he had 84 roses in his room .

What he had in his room, his car and his home was an arsonal. Out of that arsonal they have found what 6 purchased from like a gun store.

My sense from here is there are a lot of collectors etc right here on WS!

Does anyone take a third of their gun collection up to their hotels rooms?

Do gun collectors like to drive around with
some of their collection in there vehicle.

Is that a conspiracy theory no - that is what we have been told.

Does the world have a huge black market regarding arsonals of assault weapons?

Yes, is that a conspiracy theory?

No it is a fact.

It is also very lucrative from what we have been taught.

Which would one think is more likely.

If i told you I was a millionaire by:

A) Gambling on a video games 10 hours a day.

OR

B) Participating in the movement and sales , on the black market of assault weapons

If one thinks about it -- which makes more sense?

Is this speculation at this point yes. Am I saying that is what happened no.

Is it a reasonable question. IMO yes.

Which vocation has the likelihood to result in income?

Is that a conspiracy theory ? No

In fact legitimate income streams are really easy to prove.

I can deposit my fees for providing mental health services in my checking account. The FBI can discover my bank records in 48 minutes.

If i am dealing heroin my income stream might be more difficult to ascertain,

Is that a conspiracy theory -- or a realistic notion to discuss?

IMO - it is reasonable to explore income streams.

Is white collar crime a conspiracy theory?


It is a statistic.

We all follow crime cases and resulting investigations.

From our collective experience in doing so -- is it peculiar that a key witness is given vacation time shortly after the biggest mass murder in the country peculiar ?

IMO yes.

Is a discussion about the wildly reported vacation given to an eyewitness in a
major crime a conspiracy theory.

No it is a discussion of an oddity reported in the media .

Sec guard --do eyewitness typically need security. If they were in danger yes. If an eyewitness is in danger they have to be in danger from "someone or something"

Is that a conspiracy theory? No. The media has reported he is accompanied by bodyguard like people.

Is it a realistic discussion as it relates to why some rent a cop at a resort now needs bodyguards worthy of a thought or two,


IMO yes.

If the individual involved , vocationally, is a top nuclear scientist as opposed to a rent ac cop might body guards seem a little more reasonable.

moo yes

Generally speaking I would hope employers tend to want to keep good employees. Why is he no longer employed by them>

Is that a conspiracy theory?

It is a reported fact.

Sadly we have been through events like this before. Can anyone recall a case wherein an eyewitness, who apparently was willing to do media (his choice) suddenly for some reason become hard to find.

Is that a conspiracy theory?

No that is what has been reported.

All of the above, imo, are speculative yes, are any of the notions mentioned above wild, out there, insane crazy conspiracy theories-- I don't think so

Inversely, it is interesting the amount of resistance to discussing anything that moves this story out of the instantly declared lone wolf based on much evidence of the opposite.

People who support the notion that investigations take time , while at the same time are not having concerns that the lone wolf stuff was stated while people were still running down the street .

Can anyone help me understand how lone wolf was determined before any investigation had even began?

Thats more than interesting.........

moo

 

[komodo]

Cariis, you said it right. There is something strange with all the linguistic acrobatics. Its bothering me also. So much clarification is always needed to decipher what they are talking about.
1. which door is open/ajar, Paddocks or down the hall.
2. What path is blocked, where did Campos have to go?
3. Where did he get shot at - hallway, stairway, blocked door, room door?
4. Adjoining room - locked, not locked, Paddock renting it or not?
5. Maintenance man/engineer or what?

thats from the top of my head..

 

[kittythehare]

Last week there was an interview on TV with a casino security manager and they were in the security room with all the
monitors and the security guy said in their casino they have cameras covering 98% of the entire facility. Reporter asked him what was the 2% not covered, and sec. mgr. did not know.

If FBI is taking over the investigation, maybe they can force MGM to be more transparent w/ videos of the hotel.

I was listening to Sheriff re his comments re fbi, BUT it was difficult to decipher what exactly he was saying.
As oceanblueeyes stated early, its a state case, not federal.. I dont buy that feds have taken it over and i dont trust abc news..
But they will be running a significant part of it.
Tactics of presser, one hours notice, press credentials reqd and closed doors during were all a bit strange, possibly a reaction to that crazy alt right journo interrupting his talk, as per Raw.com article snippet I shared yesterday..

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Why are there so few photos of Jesus Campos?

 

[kittythehare]

Cariis, you said it right. There is something strange with all the linguistic acrobatics. Its bothering me also. So much clarification is always needed to decipher what they are talking about.
1. which door is open/ajar, Paddocks or down the hall.
2. What path is blocked, where did Campos have to go?
3. Where did he get shot at - hallway, stairway, blocked door, room door?
4. Adjoining room - locked, not locked, Paddock renting it or not?
5. Maintenance man/engineer or what?

thats from the top of my head..

Did he fudge it deliberately? and then a no questions bark?

 

[bears10]

It seems something similar happened at Mandalay Bay early last year:


"As you know I am employed there. Just an FYI--One of our officers was shot in the leg.

I have something that needs to be said because it WONT be said by anybody else because it's an "in house" event. In 2016--early in the year, the EXACT same scenario almost played out.

A young man in his early 30's was arrested by police for having a "long range rifle" on a tripod in his room. He had a etched a small hole in the window and was in the process of making his way thru the glass. He was a convicted felon out of California. There were over 4000 rounds of ammo and numerous handguns found in the room as well. He was caught because when he left his room, he neglected to hang the do not disturb sign on his doorknob. Housekeeping came to clean the room and obviously freaked out when they saw the guns. Police were waiting for him when he returned.
Our local news NEEDS to the world what really happens in these casinos.

But then again, if that happens we'd ALL be out of work. Sad sad sad... What a horrible day to live and work in this town."

<Modnote: Starting around 2:20 in the following video>

[video=youtube;y7-xThriswE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7-xThriswE[/video]

I’m not seeing the 2016 info on that video... what am I missing


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[Gone Girl]

Cariis, you said it right. There is something strange with all the linguistic acrobatics. Its bothering me also. So much clarification is always needed to decipher what they are talking about.
1. which door is open/ajar, Paddocks or down the hall.
2. What path is blocked, where did Campos have to go?
3. Where did he get shot at - hallway, stairway, blocked door, room door?
4. Adjoining room - locked, not locked, Paddock renting it or not?
5. Maintenance man/engineer or what?

Excellent questions Komodo and Cariis! The timing of finding a door barricaded and alerting authorities is what I take issue with. A barricade should have been enough reason to radio down. Also, as a frequent patron of MGM owned properties, I can say they have you on camera constantly. I lost my phone on the casino floor and sat with security as they showed me my movements for the last hour!! And we found my phone and who picked it up to turn into someone I&#8217;m sure. On another occasion, someone was following me around and security told me they saw him in the hallway leading to my suite as well as on the floor and heading toward bathrooms!! Ultimately, he left and they didn&#8217;t catch up to him but they supposedly alerted all security.

This is why the story makes no sense. IMO, as an attorney myself, I am confident the civil attorneys for the victims will be digging much harder and these timelines will not stand. The ball was dropped on many different levels and the civil attorneys will pick it up and run with it.

 

[kittythehare]

Cariis, you said it right. There is something strange with all the linguistic acrobatics. Its bothering me also. So much clarification is always needed to decipher what they are talking about.
1. which door is open/ajar, Paddocks or down the hall.
2. What path is blocked, where did Campos have to go?
3. Where did he get shot at - hallway, stairway, blocked door, room door?
4. Adjoining room - locked, not locked, Paddock renting it or not?
5. Maintenance man/engineer or what?

thats from the top of my head..

oK I'll try some of these
1 unknown.
2 it would appear Campos was taking the stairs and found it blocked when he was attending unknown. (why didnt he use the elevator?) Door at top of stairs leading into floor 32 was the blocked door. Sheriff did allude to that when he muttered something about C having to take a stairs down to go up a different way, thus explaining a time lapse, which is a whole story in itself Not sure where sound of drilling went down the plughole in the latest narrative but I dont recall it being mentioned.
3I could have been dead wrong on 2.
he could indeed have taken the elevator to investigate #unknown when he chanced upon the boarded up door which was either next to suite or the same boarded up door at top of stairs which was the original boarded up door.. from yesterday's presser impossible to know .. think the gist of it was that that SP saw him examining the carpentry and didnt think he was sufficiently appreciative and just shot him.. I'm again unsure how many doors had received carpentry. I assume there were 2 doors on suite he rented.. I am also unclear on how many and which doors received carpentry, i assume top of stairs was one , and 2nd door to his suite was the second.
The boarding of the suite door and top of stairs door lead me to believe that Paddock expected to be apprehended very quickly indeed.
Then how come the car laden with explosives was there?
5 Maintenance man arrived either before or after Campos had been shot, though originally it seems from coverage we read that Campas was already injured when SG2 arrived..
Sensing another critic of his handiwork about to give another unfavourable review, Paddock took a few potshots at him too
I no longer know whether he shot them through the door or whether he opened it first, this due to failed presser yesterday.

Going forward I have very little interest in Campos stories, I still see him as a 25 yr old kid doing a job he liked and getting shot and getting crucified by conflicted parties since then, not to mention being stalked by gutter press.

I still want to find out about Paddock and everything he touched in his lifetime..
I have no stomach for the brother's ravings, I took an intense dislike to him and I couldn't be objective so staying away from the narcissistic braggert.

So hdh do we go about sleuthing Paddock?

I am really not well with the effect of that presser yesterday.. it had the effect of locking me up and throwing away the key.. like a prisoner of isis..

But I dont see why it should prevent anybody researching, sleuthing this case..
Not waitin'!

..

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone know anything about the relationship between casinos and unions in Las Vegas, particularly, Are they adversarial? Or is it possible they are working together?

They're adversarial for the most part, it's natural. Employees organize when they're not being treated fairly by owners. Mandalay Bay security guards had only taken a vote to organize last December, when it was approved by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). Having read some web sites of the Las Vegas "locals" of the various unions, they've experienced the usual obstructions to organizing from the casino owners - lying to workers and threatening to fire them if they vote to organize (that's illegal). That's why I'm giving a big "side eye" to MGM absconding with Campos. They were unhappy with the security guards organizing at their workplace, so its unlikely they have his well being as a primary concern.

 

[kittythehare]

They're adversarial for the most part, it's natural. Employees organize when they're not being treated fairly by owners. Mandalay Bay security guards had only taken a vote to organize last December, when it was approved by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). Having read some web sites of the Las Vegas "locals" of the various unions, they've experienced the usual obstructions to organizing from the casino owners - lying to workers and threatening to fire them if they vote to organize (that's illegal). That's why I'm giving a big "side eye" to MGM absconding with Campos. They were unhappy with the security guards organizing at their workplace, so its unlikely they have his well being as a primary concern.

Its great to receive insight into casino business and workings, thank you.
Formidable indeed.
(I'm glad he didn't submit himself to Hannity's stream of malice, for his own sake)

 

[kittythehare]

I’m not seeing the 2016 info on that video... what am I missing


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mentioned at 2.21, just a brief reference.

 

[Ambitioned]

Cariis, you said it right. There is something strange with all the linguistic acrobatics. Its bothering me also. So much clarification is always needed to decipher what they are talking about.
1. which door is open/ajar, Paddocks or down the hall.
2. What path is blocked, where did Campos have to go?
3. Where did he get shot at - hallway, stairway, blocked door, room door?
4. Adjoining room - locked, not locked, Paddock renting it or not?
5. Maintenance man/engineer or what?

Excellent questions Komodo and Cariis! The timing of finding a door barricaded and alerting authorities is what I take issue with. A barricade should have been enough reason to radio down. Also, as a frequent patron of MGM owned properties, I can say they have you on camera constantly. I lost my phone on the casino floor and sat with security as they showed me my movements for the last hour!! And we found my phone and who picked it up to turn into someone I&#8217;m sure. On another occasion, someone was following me around and security told me they saw him in the hallway leading to my suite as well as on the floor and heading toward bathrooms!! Ultimately, he left and they didn&#8217;t catch up to him but they supposedly alerted all security.

This is why the story makes no sense. IMO, as an attorney myself, I am confident the civil attorneys for the victims will be digging much harder and these timelines will not stand. The ball was dropped on many different levels and the civil attorneys will pick it up and run with it.

:tyou: These questions we need answers to.

ISIS came out and claimed responsibility early on. Yes yes I KNOW most were skeptical at the time and it does appear that there is no connection. However such things should be investigated again, particularly in the absence of a clear motive. And the fact that his brain was "unremarkable." :detective:

That's all I'll say before I get lectured to and wagged at again. :nono::nono:

As for the part I bolded, someone mentioned just watching Eric's body language with no audio. There's a youtube vid out analyzing the Sheriff's body language as well. He knows the suits are going to bring out the truth. The weight of the world is on his shoulders. JMO. :moo:

 

[Betty P]

Its great to receive insight into casino business and workings, thank you.
Formidable indeed.
(I'm glad he didn't submit himself to Hannity's stream of malice, for his own sake)

From the scant news reports, it sounds like he originally planned to speak to all the networks. Hannity was just hawking it as an exclusive, when it wasn't. Fox has always been very anti-union, so he wouldn't have been treated well there.

 

[komodo]

Also this 2016 shooting incident, if true, could be showing us the standard operating procedure in Mgm, namely that they try to resolve such incidents within the house. It stops bringing in the bad press.