NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #8

[Gooddeeds]

-SNIPPED: It is a long but informative article.

https://www.securitymagazine.com/bl...he-anatomy-of-a-catastrophic-security-failure

“THE PROBLEM WITH MAJOR SECURITY FAILURE IS PEOPLE DIE AND ARE INJURED”



“This was a rare instance where private security had the real chance to prevent an actual incident with real life safety consequences. Instead, the simple truth is the Mandalay Bay’s security failed miserably.

They failed to ensure only armed and professionally-competent security officers were employed by and in the hotel at the time, they failed to respond when unarmed security guard Campos reported he had been shot, they failed to notify the police that Campos had been shot, and they failed to do anything to protect the concertgoers as well as the other hotel guests.

Had the Mandalay Bay’s security simply succeeded during this critical time, it is highly likely that 59 people now dead would be alive today and 527 other people could have averted being injured, or at the very least, the number of dead and injured would be far less.

Shame on the Mandalay Bay’s owners and managers for failing to have a properly trained and equipped security team on-site. Instead of investing in a professional security force, the Mandalay Bay apparently decided to go cheap and try and outsource their internal risk to public safety. That never works out well as we saw in this incident.

The Mandalay Bay appears to be one of those organizations that simply does not take their security seriously. The truth is, unless protective assets are in place before an incident occurs, the police cannot get to the scene in time to make a measurable difference in the outcome. This is why armed and professionally-competent security officers are and have to be the first responders.

I just wonder how many people have to die before all organizations start taking their security for real. The Mandalay Bay’s security was literally missing in action at the time when they were needed the most. In the final analysis, what was the chance for private security to shine the brightest by having and following a rapid response plan instead turned out to be one of the darkest moments for private security in the modern era because of the catastrophic failures.”
************************************

-People die...and...peoples lives are changed forever by serious injuries...

 

[PrairieWind]

-SNIPPED: It is a long but informative article.

https://www.securitymagazine.com/bl...he-anatomy-of-a-catastrophic-security-failure

“THE PROBLEM WITH MAJOR SECURITY FAILURE IS PEOPLE DIE AND ARE INJURED”



“This was a rare instance where private security had the real chance to prevent an actual incident with real life safety consequences. Instead, the simple truth is the Mandalay Bay’s security failed miserably.

They failed to ensure only armed and professionally-competent security officers were employed by and in the hotel at the time, they failed to respond when unarmed security guard Campos reported he had been shot, they failed to notify the police that Campos had been shot, and they failed to do anything to protect the concertgoers as well as the other hotel guests.

Had the Mandalay Bay’s security simply succeeded during this critical time, it is highly likely that 59 people now dead would be alive today and 527 other people could have averted being injured, or at the very least, the number of dead and injured would be far less.

Shame on the Mandalay Bay’s owners and managers for failing to have a properly trained and equipped security team on-site. Instead of investing in a professional security force, the Mandalay Bay apparently decided to go cheap and try and outsource their internal risk to public safety. That never works out well as we saw in this incident.

The Mandalay Bay appears to be one of those organizations that simply does not take their security seriously. The truth is, unless protective assets are in place before an incident occurs, the police cannot get to the scene in time to make a measurable difference in the outcome. This is why armed and professionally-competent security officers are and have to be the first responders.

I just wonder how many people have to die before all organizations start taking their security for real. The Mandalay Bay’s security was literally missing in action at the time when they were needed the most. In the final analysis, what was the chance for private security to shine the brightest by having and following a rapid response plan instead turned out to be one of the darkest moments for private security in the modern era because of the catastrophic failures.”
************************************

-People die...and...peoples lives are changed forever by serious injuries...

There is no legal duty for a hotel to maintain its own private SWAT team. They will not lose a lawsuit on those grounds.

 

[Gooddeeds]

From the article I just posted, it seems Eric Paddock will have his brother Steven cremated. When the coroner releases the body, his brother will probably contact a funeral home and they will pick up the body and cremate it. I'll bet you the brother never bothered to go down to the morgue and see if that was really his brother. He just assumed it was because that's what the FBI and local LE told him. JMO

-I wouldn’t be surprised if ‘these’ ashes end up in an auction on the precept of it being a money deal. Bruce may have already thought about getting to them before anyone else does.

-Nothing would surprise me.

 

[Gooddeeds]

There is no legal duty for a hotel to maintain its own private SWAT team. They will not lose a lawsuit on those grounds.

-Correct there is no legal duty though it should be an ethical one.

-ETA: though regardless of what they choose, private or standard...LE or SWAT, it should be what it is supposed to be:

RELIABLE-REAL-EQUIPPED-ACCOUNTABLE AND WITH INTEGRITY.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

There is no legal duty for a hotel to maintain its own private SWAT team. They will not lose a lawsuit on those grounds.

No kidding. Plus, danged bizarre world we're living in now where we would expect to see armed security in hotels.

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[Deleted member 158085]

-I wouldn’t be surprised if ‘these’ ashes end up in an auction on the precept of it being a money deal. Bruce may have already thought about getting to them before anyone else does.

-Nothing would surprise me.

I don't know how you even think some of this stuff up.

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[canadiangirl]

I don't think people are prevented from viewing the body. But it is becoming more standard to do it through photographs, which means that his brother could have done it without coming to Las Vegas. With Paddock, in addition to identifying him that way, they could compare fingerprints since he had a pilot's license and fingerprints are required for that.

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But we know his brother was in LV

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[Deleted member 158085]

But we know his brother was in LV

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So? We don't know if he or MD identified (or someone else), or how they identified. They may have been given a choice in how.

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[Pickl]

There is no legal duty for a hotel to maintain its own private SWAT team. They will not lose a lawsuit on those grounds.

LOL, of course not,

what hotel could ever afford to employ a SWAT team 24/7?

 

[Pickl]

First thing that stood out to me right off the bat.....why are there 2 windows broken in the hotel room if there is only one shooter?....this makes no sense...absolutely zero....if bullets came from that room (which i am still skeptical about) then there were at least two shooters, no question in my mind

Second, if you watch the video that was captured by somebody up high in mandalay bay during the shooting (sorry do not have link) what stands out most to me in that video is there is no dirt being "kicked up" off the ground from bullets that have hit the ground...if you have ever seen gunfire from up high like this into a dirt field, there is always a very noticeable cloud of smoke/dirt at least 6 feet high in the air when a bullet hits the ground, i see none of this in that video.....this makes me think all the shooting could have taken place at ground level,

stop believing the nonsense that our government and LE are trying to feed you, these people are living off people who are gullible and will believe anything they say....you should fear our government more then any others on this earth,

 

[MistyWaters]

No kidding. Plus, danged bizarre world we're living in now where we would expect to see armed security in hotels.

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That's for sure. You wouldn't find me staying in a hotel with a hotel-hired SWAT team roaming the halls. No way would they ever have enough training or practise to handle volatile situations, that's how innocent people get accidentally shot.

Just a thought, perhaps hotels could just take all their windows and not allow luggage. Guests could wander around in hotel supplied house coats, one colour for each floor <sarcasm>

 

[Gooddeeds]

LOL, of course not,

what hotel could ever afford to employ a SWAT team 24/7?

-There isn’t any implication that SWAT is mandatory and affordable. I believe the point is that what ever the choice is, it should be an ethical one.

-Regardless of what they choose, private or standard...LE or SWAT, it should be what it is supposed to be:

RELIABLE-REAL-EQUIPPED-ACCOUNTABLE AND WITH INTEGRITY.

 

[CoolJ]

I don't know how you even think some of this stuff up.

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Probably the same way you think stuff up.

 

[CoolJ]

So? We don't know if he or MD identified (or someone else), or how they identified. They may have been given a choice in how.

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Yet, you seem to "know" that SP was identified via photograph. Interesting.

 

[Gooddeeds]

First thing that stood out to me right off the bat.....why are there 2 windows broken in the hotel room if there is only one shooter?....this makes no sense...absolutely zero....if bullets came from that room (which i am still skeptical about) then there were at least two shooters, no question in my mind

Second, if you watch the video that was captured by somebody up high in mandalay bay during the shooting (sorry do not have link) what stands out most to me in that video is there is no dirt being "kicked up" off the ground from bullets that have hit the ground...if you have ever seen gunfire from up high like this into a dirt field, there is always a very noticeable cloud of smoke/dirt at least 6 feet high in the air when a bullet hits the ground, i see none of this in that video.....this makes me think all the shooting could have taken place at ground level,

stop believing the nonsense that our government and LE are trying to feed you, these people are living off people who are gullible and will believe anything they say....you should fear our government more then any others on this earth,

-Hi Pickl, read back a few pages, your thoughts are valid&#128522;

 

[PrairieWind]

LOL, of course not,

what hotel could ever afford to employ a SWAT team 24/7?

And not just HAVE a SWAT team, but have a legal obligation to use it! Not even the police have a legal obligation to protect citizens.

 

[bluesneakers]

First thing that stood out to me right off the bat.....why are there 2 windows broken in the hotel room if there is only one shooter?....this makes no sense...absolutely zero....if bullets came from that room (which i am still skeptical about) then there were at least two shooters, no question in my mind

Second, if you watch the video that was captured by somebody up high in mandalay bay during the shooting (sorry do not have link) what stands out most to me in that video is there is no dirt being "kicked up" off the ground from bullets that have hit the ground...if you have ever seen gunfire from up high like this into a dirt field, there is always a very noticeable cloud of smoke/dirt at least 6 feet high in the air when a bullet hits the ground, i see none of this in that video.....this makes me think all the shooting could have taken place at ground level,

stop believing the nonsense that our government and LE are trying to feed you, these people are living off people who are gullible and will believe anything they say....you should fear our government more then any others on this earth,

It makes perfect sense: He shot out one window, couldn't get the angle or access he wanted, or the victims started moving, and so moved to a different window.

 

[MistyWaters]

So? We don't know if he or MD identified (or someone else), or how they identified. They may have been given a choice in how.

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And even if we did know, anyone who believes Paddock was misidentified would still find a reason to question.

Sometimes I feel as though some people, especially younger ones who've grown up with social media, think others don't exist without proof of a Facebook account.

 

[bears10]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why people who are so untrusting of our government and think we should fear our government more than anything else in the world, continue to live in our country. You do not have to stay here. You are free to move to a place where the government scares you less than ours does.


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[canadiangirl]

I don't think people are prevented from viewing the body. But it is becoming more standard to do it through photographs, which means that his brother could have done it without coming to Las Vegas. With Paddock, in addition to identifying him that way, they could compare fingerprints since he had a pilot's license and fingerprints are required for that.

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But we know his brother was in LV

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So? We don't know if he or MD identified (or someone else), or how they identified. They may have been given a choice in how.

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I was replying to the fact we know his brother was in LV so saying he could have done it without coming doesn't matter. He was there. But I didn't hear any reports of his family positively ID him? Why not? He was right in LV

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