NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #12

[laytonian]

Steven's case has gone much too quiet. Makes me think there's something going on behind the scenes.

I think it's quiet because there's no news to talk about. No updates. Nothing. Here, we're down to the stubborn die-hards...

Every day, I check NAMUS to make sure he's still listed. I get the feeling that if he does show up, he'll just be quietly removed from the missing persons lists....and we'll never know what happened.

 

[ding174]

You are right Sin City this case is cold. And if he is found it will more than likely be someone who happens to come across him.

agreed. too much speculation with no "boots on the ground" no real time info and all info is second or third hand. no further info from the people that really count as i mentioned earlier is a sure sign that what goes on in here doesnt mean diddly squat to them. or even the info on FB page. good detectives like to focus on people who like to "carry the torch" who have no relevance or connection to the case. especially when they are unseen and annonymous - they call it the "guilty conscience" syndrome.

 

[Fairy1]

I think it's quiet because there's no news to talk about. No updates. Nothing. Here, we're down to the stubborn die-hards...

Every day, I check NAMUS to make sure he's still listed. I get the feeling that if he does show up, he'll just be quietly removed from the missing persons lists....and we'll never know what happened.

I agree.

Perhaps instead of waiting for something new, we should be looking at something old.

I've been thinking today about all the missing persons cases I've followed here on WS. There are a number of missing women right now who are assumed to have been murdered by their husbands or significant others. That's fairly common - past and present. By contrast, a large number of missing men cases here have ended in drownings or driving off the road after partying. Steven doesn't fit into either potential scenario - as far as we know. Then again, the cases where the missing person just up and walked away are few and far between - not including runaway kids.

That being said, I can't remember one, single case where it was determined that a 30-year-old man was lured to another state and murdered for no apparent reason. Not saying it could never happen. It just seems so unlikely to me. Particularly in a city full of potential victims. I would think if Steven did meet that fate, there IS a reason.

 

[laytonian]

I agree.

Perhaps instead of waiting for something new, we should be looking at something old.

I've been thinking today about all the missing persons cases I've followed here on WS. There are a number of missing women right now who are assumed to have been murdered by their husbands or significant others. That's fairly common - past and present. By contrast, a large number of missing men cases here have ended in drownings or driving off the road after partying. Steven doesn't fit into either potential scenario - as far as we know. Then again, the cases where the missing person just up and walked away are few and far between - not including runaway kids.

That being said, I can't remember one, single case where it was determined that a 30-year-old man was lured to another state and murdered for no apparent reason. Not saying it could never happen. It just seems so unlikely to me. Particularly in a city full of potential victims. I would think if Steven did meet that fate, there IS a reason.

Me, neither.

At first, I believed he was a crime victim or a suicide. Now, I believe whatever happened to Steven, was of his own accord. I think we've believed that he wouldn't/couldn't do certain things ... but obviously he DID do something.

The old KISS theory applies. Convoluted theories of any kind, whether they are a crime or walkaway, don't really work and leave too many clues.

But saving some money up, finding a way to hitch a ride to another area (maybe driving the vehicle yourself)....and it's a perfect escape.

Or maybe just ending it all.

He certainly couldn't face his family, whatever was going on.

 

[Fairy1]

Me, neither.

At first, I believed he was a crime victim or a suicide. Now, I believe whatever happened to Steven, was of his own accord. I think we've believed that he wouldn't/couldn't do certain things ... but obviously he DID do something.

The old KISS theory applies. Convoluted theories of any kind, whether they are a crime or walkaway, don't really work and leave too many clues.

But saving some money up, finding a way to hitch a ride to another area (maybe driving the vehicle yourself)....and it's a perfect escape.

Or maybe just ending it all.

He certainly couldn't face his family, whatever was going on.

I truly feel Steven would have been found by now if it was a suicide.

And people who are living "double lives" go to great lengths to hide it.

JMO

 

[laytonian]

I truly feel Steven would have been found by now if it was a suicide.

And people who are living "double lives" go to great lengths to hide it.

JMO

Disappearance:
Once you disappear, you're no longer living a double life. For all we know, Steven Thell is employed or living somewhere else. Remember, SK used that name as his online byline in 2006 and could now use it as a reference. Hiding in plain sight can be pretty successful if you're low-key. You can even use your own SSN, and unless the family can prove there's an emergency, the Social Security administration won't forward any communications.

Suicide:
Unless every square inch of the thousands of acres around SCA has been searched, I don't think we can say he's not out there. Like we've discussed, people will crawl into holes to protect themselves from the elements -- making their bodies hard to find, later.
And what's to say he didn't go elsewhere to end his life?

....and there's always the possibility of both a disappearance and later suicide elsewhere.

 

[laytonian]

good detectives like to focus on people who like to "carry the torch" who have no relevance or connection to the case. especially when they are unseen and annonymous - they call it the "guilty conscience" syndrome.

That makes everyone else here, including you, a suspect. Right?

 

[Fairy1]

Disappearance:
Once you disappear, you're no longer living a double life. For all we know, Steven Thell is employed or living somewhere else. Remember, SK used that name as his online byline in 2006 and could now use it as a reference. Hiding in plain sight can be pretty successful if you're low-key. You can even use your own SSN, and unless the family can prove there's an emergency, the Social Security administration won't forward any communications.

I do remember and it's 100% possible he is living under another name. But he would have needed help for that. From whom?

Suicide:
Unless every square inch of the thousands of acres around SCA has been searched, I don't think we can say he's not out there. Like we've discussed, people will crawl into holes to protect themselves from the elements -- making their bodies hard to find, later.
And what's to say he didn't go elsewhere to end his life?

I don't believe someone who wanted to commit suicide would hide himself. We have discussed the possibility that Steven came to NV to kill himself so his family would not find him. By the same token, would he have wanted them to worry about him for months? Or forever?[/quote]

....and there's always the possibility of both a disappearance and later suicide elsewhere.

True. But I don't believe Steven is gone from this earth. That's that whole "stubborn" thing you mentioned earlier.

 

[Lato]

We know too much to walk away, and not enough to solve anything.

 

[hollyblue]

We know too much to walk away, and not enough to solve anything.

I agree with Fairy1. I think he is alive and well- -living out of the country -- getting on with his life. IMO. I think the family may believe this also, since we see nothing in advancing the search publicly. No new searches or updates on the FB page.

To further the idea of foul play, there was mention of possible retaliation to RK. Don't remember who that came from, but at this point, if they felt it valid, maybe it should be looked into.

Also, family and friends have stated there is no dark side to Steven, but could he have "said" something that sparked into him leaving or disappearing? We don't know him--but the statement by him of "too worldly" and he being infused into his beliefs...maybe he rallied too much for someone and they took offense. Just thoughts.. Was he opinionated and aggressively so?

ETA: Apparently, AN was making trips to the LV area also. Did she have a beau she was hooking up with and Steven may have gotten wind of it? That could perhaps tie the two driving escapades together.

 

[rd_jfc]

I took a look at the timeline again. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that unless we get a clarification of what Steven did in handing out flyers, his mother said he was washing windows and hanging Christmas lights, I saw the ad with that phone number that was for commissioned sales which may or may not be relevant, all indications to me are that Steven was continuing to try to drum up work for that job.

I just don't know that he was actually stuffing pieces of paper in doors. You could go through a ton of flyers that way pretty quick, and would it generate work for him or money for him? I don't know. I sure wish someone close to SK would ask and say what the company boss's arrangement with him was. He may not have sent SK to Henderson, but did Steven have the leeway to generate work anywhere? He may have felt he tapped out the St. George area, I would certainly think so.

He was handing out flyers or doing whatever it is he was doing on Friday, Friday night he tells church leader he is looking for work, Saturday in Mesquite. The simple explanation is that he was branching out in trying to drum up work.

Sunday we're either supposed to believe he either was too religious to continue to try to generate work on Sunday or that he basically ditched his entire life. If we can believe he ditched his entire life, then we can believe that he decided he needed to try to sell people when they were home on Sunday instead of off to work during the week, and branched out to Las Vegas suburbs to do it.

There were flyers in the car, he walked away from the car with something under his arm, and he had been performing this job with no indications to anyone that he was doing anything but. Mother, church leader, boss, all said he was quite positive about what he was doing two days before he disappeared. Evening before he disappeared he is buying small Christmas gifts for his family after having promised his mother the day before he would be home for Christmas.

Speaking of religion, it's funny in a way, but Sunday morning is reserved for church in a cultural way, back in the day in between Blue Laws that closed stores and other businesses on Sunday and no restrictions I believe there was even some restriction on Sunday morning commercial activity in places.

I know it sounds a little silly and pedantic, but I would not be surprised that SK was waiting till noon to knock on doors due to religious cultural reasons for both himself and residents.

There's lots of arguments against this, but unless I hear more details about what and how he performed that job did that makes the idea untenable, the simple and straightfoward explanation is that he was continuing to do what he had been doing, trying to generate window washing work with flyers.

Did he have a boss's truck and equipment to perform the work, or was just generating commissioned sales, and whether it was feasible for him to decide to try it in Vegas suburbs hopefully someone associated with the family or boss or someone who dealt with him as a customer in preceding weeks can answer.

rd

 

[hollyblue]

I think the aN is the connection to the area. There are 487 in state and the majority are in LV or Henderson. One in Mesquite.

http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_za...f=&se=&doby=doby&city=&name_style=1&tm=&tmr=1

Strange but the only AN I can find with that name is 40+. Can't find her in NV or UT.

Found a Jeremy, around the same age, in NV & TX. Into music. (guitar)

Pipl and MyLife are good search sites also.

Just an idea.....

 

[hollyblue]

I took a look at the timeline again. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that unless we get a clarification of what Steven did in handing out flyers, his mother said he was washing windows and hanging Christmas lights, I saw the ad with that phone number that was for commissioned sales which may or may not be relevant, all indications to me are that Steven was continuing to try to drum up work for that job.

I just don't know that he was actually stuffing pieces of paper in doors. You could go through a ton of fliers that way pretty quick, and would it generate work for him or money for him? I don't know. I sure wish someone close to SK would ask and say what the company boss's arrangement with him was. He may not have sent SK to Henderson, but did Steven have the leeway to generate work anywhere? He may have felt he tapped out the St. George area, I would certainly think so.

He was handing out flyers or doing whatever it is he was doing on Friday, Friday night he tells church leader he is looking for work, Saturday in Mesquite. The simple explanation is that he was branching out in trying to drum up work.

Sunday we're either supposed to believe he either was too religious to continue to try to generate work on Sunday or that he basically ditched his entire life. If we can believe he ditched his entire life, then we can believe that he decided he needed to try to sell people when they were home on Sunday instead of off to work during the week, and branched out to Las Vegas suburbs to do it.

There were flyers in the car, he walked away from the car with something under his arm, and he had been performing this job with no indications to anyone that he was doing anything but. Mother, church leader, boss, all said he was quite positive about what he was doing two days before he disappeared. Evening before he disappeared he is buying small Christmas gifts for his family after having promised his mother the day before he would be home for Christmas.

Speaking of religion, it's funny in a way, but Sunday morning is reserved for church in a cultural way, back in the day in between Blue Laws that closed stores and other businesses on Sunday and no restrictions I believe there was even some restriction on Sunday morning commercial activity in places.

I know it sounds a little silly and pedantic, but I would not be surprised that SK was waiting till noon to knock on doors due to religious cultural reasons for both himself and residents.

There's lots of arguments against this, but unless I hear more details about what and how he performed that job did that makes the idea untenable, the simple and straightfoward explanation is that he was continuing to do what he had been doing, trying to generate window washing work with flyers.

Did he have a boss's truck and equipment to perform the work, or was just generating commissioned sales, and whether it was feasible for him to decide to try it in Vegas suburbs hopefully someone associated with the family or boss or someone who dealt with him as a customer in preceding weeks can answer.

rd

JMOO, but I think unless his boss had spreads his wings with a business already established in LV/Henderson, why spend the time and money marketing your services there; let alone the expense traveling that distance. Not financially conducive for TH--nor logical for homeowners to have a business come from SG, UT just to wash your windows. Now, if you could tell me Steven and the boss got together and SK had moved to the area...and was going to work from his home base (quasi-office there) I could see Steven trying to generate a customer base.

 

[rd_jfc]

and imo it didn't cost boss any money if pay was commission or SK was generating his own work for the company through these flyer efforts, essentially commission in that.

It makes no sense that he was paid for distributing flyers for work he did at the direction and pay of his boss, or that he got paid for distributing flyers where he worked as much as he wanted on his own schedule. That he didn't get paid unless he generated work is the only thing that makes sense to me.

rd

 

[hollyblue]

and imo it didn't cost boss any money if pay was commission or SK was generating his own work for the company through these flyer efforts, essentially commission in that.

It makes no sense that he was paid for distributing flyers for work he did at the direction and pay of his boss, or that he got paid for distributing flyers where he worked as much as he wanted on his own schedule. That he didn't get paid unless he generated work is the only thing that makes sense to me.

rd

You may be right about the commission. The only thing we were told by the family was "a marketing job" and then that he was working as a window washer....so... who knows?

 

[laytonian]

I do remember and it's 100% possible he is living under another name. But he would have needed help for that. From whom?

I don't think he'd need much help. Maybe a cab ride, then a Greyhound.

I don't believe someone who wanted to commit suicide would hide himself. We have discussed the possibility that Steven came to NV to kill himself so his family would not find him. By the same token, would he have wanted them to worry about him for months? Or forever?

I believe suicides and purposeful disappearances are acts of anger and punishment, aimed at people who the perpetrator believes has victimized them. "You'll be sorry when I'm gone....."

 

[laytonian]

and imo it didn't cost boss any money if pay was commission or SK was generating his own work for the company through these flyer efforts, essentially commission in that.

It makes no sense that he was paid for distributing flyers for work he did at the direction and pay of his boss, or that he got paid for distributing flyers where he worked as much as he wanted on his own schedule. That he didn't get paid unless he generated work is the only thing that makes sense to me.

rd

He was a "private contractor" (ie, in tax law it's "independent contractor").

His mother called it "washing windows and hanging Christmas lights" ... and his father later called it a ""a part-time marketing job for a window-washing and home service business"".

"Marketing" sounds so much better than "washing windows" -- and frankly, the clashing descriptions sound like a need to make his job sound better than it was (even if it's to the detriment of the case).

We know one chuch member said Steven helped hang Christmas lights earlier in the month ... but there's nothing on the flyer about that (and by Dec 12th, it's quite late in the season for that, since Utahns decorate for Christmas before Thanksgiving).

To me, this article exemplifies the "shine" that is applied to Steven's activities (LINK)
and the "he wouldn't do that" perspective.

 

[laytonian]

Did he have a boss's truck and equipment to perform the work, or was just generating commissioned sales, and whether it was feasible for him to decide to try it in Vegas suburbs hopefully someone associated with the family or boss or someone who dealt with him as a customer in preceding weeks can answer.

rd

There's never been a mention of him using TH's truck or equipment.

If he was washing windows, all he'd need was a bucket, some cloths and a squeegee. All that would fit inside his vehicle.
The window blind cleaning equipment would be different, and I doubt he did that.

BUT.....it makes absolutely no sense for someone to "drum up" business two hours away from the business location, across state lines. Last time I paid for window washington, I paid $75.
If you have someone driving 240 miles round-trip, that's about 8 gallons of gas ($24 or so). That leaves $51. $4 worth of supplies, leaves $47. Now there's the cost of the flyers that generated that work (?), insurance and bonding, and the split between the boss and employee.

I don't think he went to Henderson to hand out flyers. If he did, why didn't he hand out flyers?

I am, however, suspicious of ANY business that uses flyers as a means to advertise. It seems shady, it's intrusive, it's litter ... and it's just suspicious.

 

[ThePhantom]

So here's the million dollar question: why do you think he went to Henderson?

 

[hollyblue]

So here's the million dollar question: why do you think he went to Henderson?

To meet someone and get out of Dodge.