Ack, maybe you should bite the bullet (as it were) and go and make friends with Mr Security? He might like the chance to be involved in a bit of sleuthing. Of course, he could also be "appalled" by it all..... Better not risk it! 
NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 4
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There was some speculation about Steven being gay. He had lived in St.George for about 7 months before he went missing ? IF he is gay, I wonder if he was in the habit of socializing in Vegas ? Have any of the posters who think he's gay contacted any gay community organizations, such as The Center in Vegas ? How do people feel about uploading Steven's photo, or gibing the Center a poster ? After explaining that it's not actualy known if Steven is gay. Somewhat delicate situation, I know. But, he might have been seen with someone in a club, or at a houseparty. Surely, it couldn't hurt to try this ? Personally, I think Steven's troubles were about not being able to make his way in the world, and being overwhelmed at the difficulties of finding work that he was able to do, and that he enjoyed. I never thought about him being gay, or straight. Anything is possiblre,though, right ? Just some thoughts ....
Hi, Liz
It's a great idea, and knowing how vibrant the gay communities are in both SLC and St George, I kinda snuck around and sent it out through my own contacts, a couple of weeks ago. (Believe it or not, SLC is one of the most gay-friendly cities in the US, with a higher-than average gay population.)
I wrote a short email "let us know if you've seen this man", included links to his "missing" flyer and our timelines.
Nothing yet, but I know things are still circulating. I think it's a great community to contact for obvious reasons AND because they socialize more than most in those areas. They're out and about, and could have seen something.
What other kinds of social networks are there, that aren't already being used?
Once again sorry for the upcoming LOST post. But it's the only way I can think clearly.
Nicely done on the pics questions you two, Laytonian and Paris Paris. . .nicely done. I am glad you are so concerned about my welfare. But on to more important stuff:
It seems we have run the course on this Cam 7 video thing. I believe there is something weird at the end of the video but it is hard to tell what that "weird" is. IF we can get a half hour before to a half hour after Cam 7 and Cam 3, we may get somewhere. Until then, it is all conjecture. But I am glad I could at least put the videos on the front burner again. Along with other people's help of course.
I was thinking about the case today and went back and looked at the timeline and then looked at the contents of his car when it was found three or four days later. And I just want to bounce some ideas around. These things are all related so bear with me.
Steven seemed to use his credit card for most of his meals. Taco Time, Jack in the Box, snacks bought at gas stations, etc. In fact, it looks like he used the credit card for just about everything, even the buying of those presents. Perfectly normal. But it just does not seem to me like he is eating enough.
As I have stated before, he and I are about the same size. If I was only eating what he was eating those last days of Dec. 10, 11, 12. . .I would be starving. Is there any proof that Steven also used cash to buy food? For example, I buy EVERYTHING with an ATM. I hardly ever have cash on me and my money situation is better than Steven's was. Because of that, I have to believe that Steven was using his credit card exclusively. Nobody that has money problems pays with cash because they want to put paying the bills off for as long as possible. A generality, true. But it goes along with human nature. And it doesn't look like his card was bouncing so he must not have been close to his limit. So, human nature. . .you keep using it and you keep using it until a store says "This card is no good."
Now, I will take for granted that on the night of Dec. 12 when he went back to his place he ate. Let's just say. We don't know for sure but it is reasonable given that he probably got something to munch on at 4pm Pacific that day when he got gas. Five hours. . .4pm to 9pm. . . between meals. . .reasonable. Yes, he was only home for 25 minutes but you can eat something quickly in 10 minutes and he may have been eating as he went back out the door at 9:25 Pacific.
Here's the thing. . .he does not use his card again for food. In fact, he does not use it for anything. From 9:25pm Pacific to when he disappears. . .noon Pacific. . .that's 14 1/2 hours!!! Maybe he picked up enough stuff at home to keep himself full until noon the next day. Carrots, apples, potato chips, etc. But wouldn't some of that stuff have been found in the car. . .wrappers, a can of soda, an apple core, something. But no mention of food or food wrappers at all. What? Did he finish the last bit of food, throw out the trash, and just happened to have nothing left when he got to Evening Lights? I guess it's possible. But I have a house. I have plenty of money and I always seem to have a can, a bottle, a food wrapper in the car and I am really not that messy. Is the car contents accurate? If so, how meticulously accurate is it? Yes, maybe he used cash for his purchases between the night of Dec. 12 and Dec. 13 but that would have been out of character from what we know from Laytonian's list.
I am thinking this: Given his "very probable" eating pattern between Dec. 12 and Dec.13 as far as we can tell by credit card receipts, is it not unreasonable to think that Steven was thinking that he might be going to lunch at noon on Sunday? It's noon. It's Sunday. It's a time when most people are eating. He hasn't used his credit card for a food purchase since 14 1/2 hours ago. Why should he use his credit card to eat when he thinks somebody else is going to be paying? I think that's reasonable. Even so, say he thinks he is going to be paying at noon. . .he would still wait to eat with whoever he was meeting with at noon. Right?
I know this is a REAL stretch but people HAVE to eat and people HAVE to sleep. I see the blankets and I see the pillows in the list of contents. I see no sign that he ate in that car between Dec. 12 and Dec. 13 on the list of contents. And if he was going to "run away" and if he knew this was the last chance he was going to use his credit card would he not have gone out with a bang? I mean, why run away on an empty stomach?
It's something to think about.
The other thing: The shaving kit found in the car. Was a shaving kit found in his apartment as well? I want to know if that kit found in the car is the only kit Steven had. Here's why:
Steven looked to be fair-skinned like I am. We are not the kind of guys who sport five o'clock shadows. In fact, I can go at least a couple of days before "looking" like I need to shave even though I grow facial hair as fast as the average guy. So, I am trying to put myself in the shoes of Steven.
Say I find out that I have to "meet someone" in Las Vegas. I am out and about in St. George. I have been cruising around in my car for a couple of days, I haven't taken a shower, I haven't shaved, my clothes are wrinkled, etc. I can't show up looking and smelling like this. I have three choices. 1. I could go home and shower, shave, etc. hoping that 14 hours from now I still look and smell good. 2. I could go home, get my stuff, and put off the cleaning up until Vegas. . .I could easily go into a truck stop and clean up for like 5 bucks. Or, I show up as I am. The third choice is NOT a choice. So, it has to be the other two.
Where I am going is this: If Steven had another shaving kit at home then I think it is a good chance that he probably did everything at home, including shaving because with his complexion he could get away with 14 hours of growth. HOWEVER, if the kit in the car was the only one he had, he probably shaved, showered, etc. somewhere after he left St. George. I mean, why take it with you if you aren't going to use it? And what did he do, shave in the car? You would be better off shaving off at home! No, he would had to have gone in somewhere and done it right. . .lather up, hot water, the whole deal. . .and you can't do that on the side of the road.
Now, maybe he always had the kit in the car. He was always on the road so I guess it makes sense. Before he gets out of the car in Ruby Valley or Springville or wherever, he does a quick one in the rearview mirror. That could have been what he was doing in that five minutes before he got out of the car? But being that he was just home 14 hours before that, he would still look clean shaven if he had shaved on Dec.12. But maybe he wanted to take no chances, did the showering at home and put off the shaving and did it very close to noon on Sunday but then. . .he might have three or four days growth on there and the only sure way you want to shave that amount of growth is to do it with hot water, shaving cream, a crisp new razor, etc. and you can't do that in a Cavalier.
And I know. I rarely use shaving cream and hot water when I am shaving regularly. But, you get me up to about 4 or 5 days of growth. . .gotta go with the cream, hot water, etc.
What I am saying I think there is a VERY good chance that Steven AT LEAST shaved between St. George and Las Vegas. I know there are some other possibilities but shaving twice in 14 hours seems a bit much. So, he either did it at home or he did it on the road. And if you're going to do it on the road, you might as well have done it 14 hours before when you were at home since you are fair-skinned and 14 hours growth looks like 2 hours of growth. But, the kit was in the car. So, once again, why bring it if you aren't going to use it? Now, if there was a kit found at home it kind of throws the whole thing off but if there wasn't. . .it opens the door to more possibilities of where Steven might have shown up between St. George and here. . .somewhere where he could at least shave.
And if he did stop to shave, this would explain why no food stuff was found in the car. . .when he got out to give himself a good shave, he cleaned out his car of any junk.
Just some more possibilities. Feel free to rip them to pieces.
Nicely done on the pics questions you two, Laytonian and Paris Paris. . .nicely done. I am glad you are so concerned about my welfare. But on to more important stuff:
It seems we have run the course on this Cam 7 video thing. I believe there is something weird at the end of the video but it is hard to tell what that "weird" is. IF we can get a half hour before to a half hour after Cam 7 and Cam 3, we may get somewhere. Until then, it is all conjecture. But I am glad I could at least put the videos on the front burner again. Along with other people's help of course.
I was thinking about the case today and went back and looked at the timeline and then looked at the contents of his car when it was found three or four days later. And I just want to bounce some ideas around. These things are all related so bear with me.
Steven seemed to use his credit card for most of his meals. Taco Time, Jack in the Box, snacks bought at gas stations, etc. In fact, it looks like he used the credit card for just about everything, even the buying of those presents. Perfectly normal. But it just does not seem to me like he is eating enough.
As I have stated before, he and I are about the same size. If I was only eating what he was eating those last days of Dec. 10, 11, 12. . .I would be starving. Is there any proof that Steven also used cash to buy food? For example, I buy EVERYTHING with an ATM. I hardly ever have cash on me and my money situation is better than Steven's was. Because of that, I have to believe that Steven was using his credit card exclusively. Nobody that has money problems pays with cash because they want to put paying the bills off for as long as possible. A generality, true. But it goes along with human nature. And it doesn't look like his card was bouncing so he must not have been close to his limit. So, human nature. . .you keep using it and you keep using it until a store says "This card is no good."
Now, I will take for granted that on the night of Dec. 12 when he went back to his place he ate. Let's just say. We don't know for sure but it is reasonable given that he probably got something to munch on at 4pm Pacific that day when he got gas. Five hours. . .4pm to 9pm. . . between meals. . .reasonable. Yes, he was only home for 25 minutes but you can eat something quickly in 10 minutes and he may have been eating as he went back out the door at 9:25 Pacific.
Here's the thing. . .he does not use his card again for food. In fact, he does not use it for anything. From 9:25pm Pacific to when he disappears. . .noon Pacific. . .that's 14 1/2 hours!!! Maybe he picked up enough stuff at home to keep himself full until noon the next day. Carrots, apples, potato chips, etc. But wouldn't some of that stuff have been found in the car. . .wrappers, a can of soda, an apple core, something. But no mention of food or food wrappers at all. What? Did he finish the last bit of food, throw out the trash, and just happened to have nothing left when he got to Evening Lights? I guess it's possible. But I have a house. I have plenty of money and I always seem to have a can, a bottle, a food wrapper in the car and I am really not that messy. Is the car contents accurate? If so, how meticulously accurate is it? Yes, maybe he used cash for his purchases between the night of Dec. 12 and Dec. 13 but that would have been out of character from what we know from Laytonian's list.
I am thinking this: Given his "very probable" eating pattern between Dec. 12 and Dec.13 as far as we can tell by credit card receipts, is it not unreasonable to think that Steven was thinking that he might be going to lunch at noon on Sunday? It's noon. It's Sunday. It's a time when most people are eating. He hasn't used his credit card for a food purchase since 14 1/2 hours ago. Why should he use his credit card to eat when he thinks somebody else is going to be paying? I think that's reasonable. Even so, say he thinks he is going to be paying at noon. . .he would still wait to eat with whoever he was meeting with at noon. Right?
I know this is a REAL stretch but people HAVE to eat and people HAVE to sleep. I see the blankets and I see the pillows in the list of contents. I see no sign that he ate in that car between Dec. 12 and Dec. 13 on the list of contents. And if he was going to "run away" and if he knew this was the last chance he was going to use his credit card would he not have gone out with a bang? I mean, why run away on an empty stomach?
It's something to think about.
The other thing: The shaving kit found in the car. Was a shaving kit found in his apartment as well? I want to know if that kit found in the car is the only kit Steven had. Here's why:
Steven looked to be fair-skinned like I am. We are not the kind of guys who sport five o'clock shadows. In fact, I can go at least a couple of days before "looking" like I need to shave even though I grow facial hair as fast as the average guy. So, I am trying to put myself in the shoes of Steven.
Say I find out that I have to "meet someone" in Las Vegas. I am out and about in St. George. I have been cruising around in my car for a couple of days, I haven't taken a shower, I haven't shaved, my clothes are wrinkled, etc. I can't show up looking and smelling like this. I have three choices. 1. I could go home and shower, shave, etc. hoping that 14 hours from now I still look and smell good. 2. I could go home, get my stuff, and put off the cleaning up until Vegas. . .I could easily go into a truck stop and clean up for like 5 bucks. Or, I show up as I am. The third choice is NOT a choice. So, it has to be the other two.
Where I am going is this: If Steven had another shaving kit at home then I think it is a good chance that he probably did everything at home, including shaving because with his complexion he could get away with 14 hours of growth. HOWEVER, if the kit in the car was the only one he had, he probably shaved, showered, etc. somewhere after he left St. George. I mean, why take it with you if you aren't going to use it? And what did he do, shave in the car? You would be better off shaving off at home! No, he would had to have gone in somewhere and done it right. . .lather up, hot water, the whole deal. . .and you can't do that on the side of the road.
Now, maybe he always had the kit in the car. He was always on the road so I guess it makes sense. Before he gets out of the car in Ruby Valley or Springville or wherever, he does a quick one in the rearview mirror. That could have been what he was doing in that five minutes before he got out of the car? But being that he was just home 14 hours before that, he would still look clean shaven if he had shaved on Dec.12. But maybe he wanted to take no chances, did the showering at home and put off the shaving and did it very close to noon on Sunday but then. . .he might have three or four days growth on there and the only sure way you want to shave that amount of growth is to do it with hot water, shaving cream, a crisp new razor, etc. and you can't do that in a Cavalier.
And I know. I rarely use shaving cream and hot water when I am shaving regularly. But, you get me up to about 4 or 5 days of growth. . .gotta go with the cream, hot water, etc.
What I am saying I think there is a VERY good chance that Steven AT LEAST shaved between St. George and Las Vegas. I know there are some other possibilities but shaving twice in 14 hours seems a bit much. So, he either did it at home or he did it on the road. And if you're going to do it on the road, you might as well have done it 14 hours before when you were at home since you are fair-skinned and 14 hours growth looks like 2 hours of growth. But, the kit was in the car. So, once again, why bring it if you aren't going to use it? Now, if there was a kit found at home it kind of throws the whole thing off but if there wasn't. . .it opens the door to more possibilities of where Steven might have shown up between St. George and here. . .somewhere where he could at least shave.
And if he did stop to shave, this would explain why no food stuff was found in the car. . .when he got out to give himself a good shave, he cleaned out his car of any junk.
Just some more possibilities. Feel free to rip them to pieces.
CONCRNED CTZN
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Fairy1-
Were any of the video cameras obvious to the "unknowing" eye? If you looked hard, were you able to locate them?
Concrned Ctzn, I have been on that street as well. Cam 7 is viewable from the street. I would not say it is "obvious" but it sits up and to the right of the garage door. The camera is not very big but if someone was admiring the house, he/she would see it.
The other one not so much. First, it is on the side of the house where the cul de sac is. So, not a lot of people are going to be going by it anyway. Second, it sits, as you can tell from the video, kind of under a small roof/awning. Unless somebody was REALLY looking for it, I would say that nobody would naturally see it just on accident.
I think at one point we explored the idea that Steven might have known the camera out front was there and walked in front of it on purpose. Going down Evening Lights to throw investigators of his disappearance off but he really wanted to walk back up Savannah. So, as explained earlier, he went the LONG way. Down Evening Lights. Up Portsmouth and then back on the Laurel Heights to get to Anthem Pkwy and possibly a bus.
Hey, it's possible. But I really think that walk is too long. Too many variables. What happens if someone stops to talk to him? What happens if someone's dog attacks him? What happens if there's a car accident and he is the witness? I know those sound like some impossibilities but if you are really going to "stage" something while take all those chances? And he could not have gone from backyard to backyard to backyard. Too many walls and too many 55+ people just looking for a reason to call the cops when some stranger is in their backyard.
If he wanted to get away the easy way, park in a casino parking lot. The car would not be found for weeks and by that time a casino might just lose the video tape or tape over it. I think the general consensus is that Steven did not know the cameras were there. In addition, maybe he was the one that set up the meeting place because he knew the cameras would record his being there in case something happen. But, if you're that worried about meeting someone, why show up at all?
The other one not so much. First, it is on the side of the house where the cul de sac is. So, not a lot of people are going to be going by it anyway. Second, it sits, as you can tell from the video, kind of under a small roof/awning. Unless somebody was REALLY looking for it, I would say that nobody would naturally see it just on accident.
I think at one point we explored the idea that Steven might have known the camera out front was there and walked in front of it on purpose. Going down Evening Lights to throw investigators of his disappearance off but he really wanted to walk back up Savannah. So, as explained earlier, he went the LONG way. Down Evening Lights. Up Portsmouth and then back on the Laurel Heights to get to Anthem Pkwy and possibly a bus.
Hey, it's possible. But I really think that walk is too long. Too many variables. What happens if someone stops to talk to him? What happens if someone's dog attacks him? What happens if there's a car accident and he is the witness? I know those sound like some impossibilities but if you are really going to "stage" something while take all those chances? And he could not have gone from backyard to backyard to backyard. Too many walls and too many 55+ people just looking for a reason to call the cops when some stranger is in their backyard.
If he wanted to get away the easy way, park in a casino parking lot. The car would not be found for weeks and by that time a casino might just lose the video tape or tape over it. I think the general consensus is that Steven did not know the cameras were there. In addition, maybe he was the one that set up the meeting place because he knew the cameras would record his being there in case something happen. But, if you're that worried about meeting someone, why show up at all?
Fairy1
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My son noticed a couple of cameras - but I wasn't really looking for them. I was paying more attention to the actual homes and the route it appears Steven took.
Oh, and one more thing.
And it's not like Steven was living a season of 24 where no one ever goes to the bathroom. Granted, he is a guy so he can do #1 on the side of the road. But, #2, anyone but the most hardcore traveler is going to go into some place to do it. And 14 hours, plus the time he thought he would take up at noon on Sunday would really be stretching it. He had to have gone to the bathroom in a building of some type between Dec. 12 at 9:30pm Pacific and Dec. 13 at noon Pacific.
And it's not like Steven was living a season of 24 where no one ever goes to the bathroom. Granted, he is a guy so he can do #1 on the side of the road. But, #2, anyone but the most hardcore traveler is going to go into some place to do it. And 14 hours, plus the time he thought he would take up at noon on Sunday would really be stretching it. He had to have gone to the bathroom in a building of some type between Dec. 12 at 9:30pm Pacific and Dec. 13 at noon Pacific.
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So, if I am understanding, if you live on the street, you know there are cameras?? Maybe Appalled could answer this even.
I don't think that Steven knew there would be cameras there, unless that was part of some elaborate escape from life plan, but/and whoever he did meet there knew and wanted Steven to be seen on those videos ALIVE...in the event that somehow they were found out or questioned they could say he came there willingly, etc., etc.
Pointing again to someone in the area...as "appalling" as that may be. I am not suggesting that a crime happened THERE, but within THERE lies important answers. Even the real estate person should be able to tell us if there was a car that Steven walked up. Right? At least eliminating a person in waiting and again pointing to the area.
Concerned, if you mean the real estate person in the White SUV (I think it was an Expedition), yes, that person would have been in perfect position to see everything on Evening Lights. Looking to the left from where that SUV stopped, the driver would get a perfect view of the entire stretch of Evening Lights. I wonder what the driver of the SUV said in the interview?
And if the driver says he/she didn't see anything it is a LITTLE hard to believe. I mean, some people are truly clueless and only concerned with their own tasks at hand. I guess we have to believe whatever the driver says but that person could have seen EVERYTHING. And from the actions of the police and the family, I am lead to believe the driver of the SUV saw nothing.
And if the driver says he/she didn't see anything it is a LITTLE hard to believe. I mean, some people are truly clueless and only concerned with their own tasks at hand. I guess we have to believe whatever the driver says but that person could have seen EVERYTHING. And from the actions of the police and the family, I am lead to believe the driver of the SUV saw nothing.
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Maybe if we had GW on camera Saturday night and Sunday we might know how Steven cleaned up. Was GW staying at a hotel? Maybe someone reading this could shed some light on what GW was doing in Vegas. Help get me off this idea that he had something to do with this by explaining his closeness to the location of the disappearance. Surely people from the ward are reading this and have heard a logical explanation. The call from GW is the last before Steven's disappearance that there are not "witnesses" to the conversation. In many cases, this would make GW a suspect alone. I want to know if a car/truck fitting his vehicles description is anywhere on those tapes in any time period.
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Okay all, I was looking at this map (link above) & I zoomed in & did some dragging of the map to get a feel for the neighborhood hmmm has anyone else noticed that there is a cul-de-sac off of portsmouth - interesting - would love to hear some thoughts about this - okay here's why my mind starting going on this & I hesitate in putting this just out there but here it goes---
If I was going all the way around the corner to portsmouth I would have parked in that cul-de-sac - so that got me thinking that whatever he was doing was right there on EL within those first 5 or six houses on either side of the street - probably the side he crossed to. Anyway - tear this apart run with it whatever - but it just caught my attention looking at this map tonight. please tell me what you think - i'm going crazy over here in my border town :crazy: :crazy: :banghead:
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If he had known the cameras were there, I believe he could have gone the other way - through the walkway next to the fence at the end of the cul-de-sac - and never been spotted.
Also - I didn't see any bus stops anywhere near this area. IMO, he would have had to double back out of Anthem and it would have been quite a hike.
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Local CBS affiliate KLAS is showing a teaser for Steven's story on the 11:00 broadcast tonight. Yay! That's 2 in one day. We got some traction!
The story isn't posted yet - but here is the link to the on-line site:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/
The story isn't posted yet - but here is the link to the on-line site:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/
Laytonian,
Great work, that you did that ! You're right, I would think most gays do go out quite a bit..You know, I'll bet someone really could have spotted something i.e. Steven with someone in a club or at a party..... I wonder if LE has even considered this.Probably not,because IIRC Steven's family and friends -- especially BigTexasTom -- did not think he was gay. I'm wondering if any forum members who think of Steven as being gay have any leads or feelers out in the gay community in Vegas,or maybe even St.George ? IMHO this could be very important,because it may have been overlooked.
Great work, that you did that ! You're right, I would think most gays do go out quite a bit..You know, I'll bet someone really could have spotted something i.e. Steven with someone in a club or at a party..... I wonder if LE has even considered this.Probably not,because IIRC Steven's family and friends -- especially BigTexasTom -- did not think he was gay. I'm wondering if any forum members who think of Steven as being gay have any leads or feelers out in the gay community in Vegas,or maybe even St.George ? IMHO this could be very important,because it may have been overlooked.
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I agree that he did not know they were there. So again, do you think the neighbors know they are there. I mean our neighbors know we have one, but then again it's on top of our house and we are the only ones with a truck that does not fit in the garage that would invite unwanted individuals.
harleysnana
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I agree and I even said this on one of the other threads... it makes
sense to me!
JMO
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I'm usually pretty aware of surveillance cameras in public places, but I honestly couldn't tell you if any my neighbors had them! Then again, I have nothing to hide, so I don't care.
In addition, if you are giving someone directions to get someone to Portsmouth, why give them more twists and turns by sending them down Savannah? Just tell them to come straight down Laurel to Portsmouth and make a left.
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I don't know too many people that clueless, unless they are talking on the phone. But we know that the person, if paying ANY attention, based on how they turned around would have seen that he parked in the cul-de-sac and was walking down the street. That alone would have peaked my curiosity if I was the agent working and selling in the area...if I was a decent agent. His dad talked to these people only a week or so after he went missing I believe. That is enough time to jog a memory. Unless, you are used to that from someone in the area...then yeah, it would be easily overlooked.
There has to be something sinister that has gone on in the area that merited the elaborate cameras (an alarm would keep you safe) from Mr. Security. We have a camera b/c we thought/think our neighbors teenage friends are the one's stealing from our truck. An alarm doesn't protect the uncovered back. AND the fact that he saved all the recordings...is even more telling to me. We wake up, everything is fine, we don't save the last 48 hours of recordings.
I'm with Nosey...there is something that is being missed on that street.
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