NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #8

[Abigail]

*bumping*

Who supplied Sweat with maps? Sure he could've found the insect repellent in a cabin, and maybe even the backpack, and poptarts are available in commissary, and the lights could be the lighted glasses from Joyce I suppose, but what about the maps?? He's a mapper and planner but he got his info SOMEPLACE. I want to know WHERE.

I suppose maps could be located in a cabin used by hunters -- like one showing trails and such. And...if a cabin is a rental (for out of town folks) it would also be likely to have maps. But...I suppose the owners of the 5 (?) cabins that got broken into could supply LE with info on whether or not that was something they had in their cabins.

 

[GGE]

I suppose maps could be located in a cabin used by hunters -- like one showing trails and such. And...if a cabin is a rental (for out of town folks) it would also be likely to have maps. But...I suppose the owners of the 5 (?) cabins that got broken into could supply LE with info on whether or not that was something they had in their cabins.

Plus CNN says the inmates were amassing maps and area info for a full year, and investigation is ongoing into whether they overheard COs talking about trails/cabins.

 

[Queen Bee]

Alexa Green ‏@AlexaTWCNews 8m8 minutes ago

A photo Pamela Sweat shared w/ me of her son #DavidSweat from 2010. Full interview w/ her @TWCNewsCNY #PrisonBreakNY

 

[human]

MM (Minnesota Mary) - Yep, and on top of THAT, just a few posts before yours I was transcribing what Cuomo was saying on CNN and he said Sweat had a backpack with maps, insect repellent, poptarts, and other supplies in it. He said investigation will be done into who supplied him with these things/how he came to have them.

Wow! That explains a lot except how they got those things. It could be Sweat drew the maps.

I hope Sweat does tell. Maybe getting shot opened some humanity in him. I am so hoping.

 

[GGE]

He was but a shadow of that man when shot IMO (re: polaroid of Sweat in April, 2010)

 

[Abigail]

(Shall we organize a mailing chain whereby one of use sends a note wishing Sweat a nice day to his mail every day for the rest of his sentence? :giggle: )

To be serious though, they keep saying Clinton has never had an escape before, but they they say never in 100 years. Which is it? It can't be both.

This prison was built in 1845. It's 170 years old. So if no escapes in 100 years, then who escaped in 1915, when the prison was 70 years old?

Nobody?

Then why not SAY no escapes in it's 170 year history? Is the math that difficult? *sigh*

You know...when Cuomo said that, I was thinking, "But that's not correct! There was an escape in the 30's or 40's - somewhere in there -- the midget bandit"

NYT has an interesting article here about dozens of escapes from Clinton, most, however, more than 100 years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/10/n...s-neither-the-first-nor-the-boldest.html?_r=0

 

[MinnesotaMary]

IMO: One or more further Clinton staff were in on this caper. No Way would Matt & Sweat know how to wiggle their way to Cabin One, and Willett Cabin unless somebody crooked from Clinton told them EXACTLY how to get there, and I believe they were 1st given a 'burner phone' (android) with exact directions txt'd to them & maps put on the phone as pics', too.
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And remember: SOMEBODY with a big honkin' circular saw and plenty of skill cut that big steam pipe - it sure weren't (lol) Tillie and it sure weren't (double lol )Art-Gallery-Owner-Palmer (he wouldn't want risk wrecking any of his guitar-pickin' fingernails....)

 

[Abigail]

CNN - "Inmates gathered cabin, terrain info for a year" - waiting to hear why they have that in their ticker but they're switching stories again now.

So...does that mean Tillie was plan A or plan B???

 

[GGE]

Plan Scapegoat IMO

ETA - she was probably like "I wanna help or else I'm gonna tell!"

The way she told Lyle "They REALLY did it! They broke out!" upon being told of the escape tells it all IMO.

 

[bestill]

I guess I was thinking that their first priority would have been to get to Canada. I don't understand the plan to hang around northern NY going from cabin to cabin. I was assuming that they wanted Tillie to drive them to the border where they would somehow sneak across.

 

[Queen Bee]

Keshia Clukey ‏@KClukey_TU 13m13 minutes ago

Gene Palmer is still on for 4pm today at the Plattsburgh Town Justice Court #PrisonBreakNY

 

[Abigail]

Plan Scapegoat IMO

Or Plan Red Herring. All they had to do with give her lots of false info to pass along...like Vermont, and 7 hours away, etc.

Of course, if she HAD showed up with a vehicle, they probably wouldn't have complained.

 

[GGE]

I guess I was thinking that their first priority would have been to get to Canada. I don't understand the plan to hang around northern NY going from cabin to cabin. I was assuming that they wanted Tillie to drive them to the border where they would somehow sneak across.

Tilile had been told by Matt that she was going to be driving them 7 hours away to a wooded area where her 4wd jeep would be needed.

They lied to Tillie IMO so she would be a diversion that would not help LE to find them JMO, she was plan nothing IMO

 

[human]

I know. It must be heart-wrenching. She said in one article that apparently his violence started when he was being bullied in school. He took a knife to school and go in trouble for that. She also said in a recorded interview that he was diagnosed with a "chemical imbalance" around 9 or 10, which was sort of a euphemism back then for mental illness (I wonder if he was being treated for whatever it was while in prison?). But there may have been other troubles in the home, or perhaps one of his sister also had some behavior issues/mental illness because both of them were in foster care for part of their childhood. And his educational background seems a bit sketchy -- none of the elementary schools in the area where he lived has a record of his attendance. But he does seem to have acquired at least an adequate education. His letter shows excellent grammar (unlike Matt) and beautiful handwriting, and he must have been trained in art at some point (someone posted a painting on twitter that HE had done -- a little girl with a horse -- that was really quite good). I also noticed from that letter that he wrote to the reporter that he has an interesting blend of politeness, along with frankness in the way that he declined her request for an interview.

I wonder if he wrote that letter? He may have had a female volunteer or Tillie write it. There is no way, IMHO, that someone with his lack of schooling could have composed such a letter

 

[GGE]

Why would Sweat have a lack of schooling? Our schools here in Broome County are fantastic. I was taught in sixth grade the writing skills that took me throughout middle and high school in advanced english placement and served me beautifully in college throughout both of my degrees, keeping me a teacher's aide and getting one of my degrees awarded to me for writing despite me not even trying for that particular degree initially.

Just because people are illiterate morons now who use text-shorthand and think it's okay does NOT mean we were all taught poorly JMO.

We KNOW he wrote it already anyway. The handwriting matches the Have a Nice Day note. I see nothing in that writing that indicates a graduate level of writing skill required, nor even a high school level. That is just plain normal communication for anyone who isn't lazy or dyslexic IMO. Hrumph!

 

[bestill]

Tilile had been told by Matt that she was going to be driving them 7 hours away to a wooded area where her 4wd jeep would be needed.

They lied to Tillie IMO so she would be a diversion that would not help LE to find them JMO, she was plan nothing IMO

I'm wondering about that. Those first hours were so critical to the success of their plan. The surprise visitor to the first cabin really was a gift to LE. I remember the frenzied searches along the Pa/NY border, LE having no idea that they were still so close to the prison. It's really amazing that they were caught at all, imo.

 

[Dr. Watson]

Let's use our imagination for a minute and think of five questions for David Sweat assuming he really wants to talk......What would you ask him? Here are mine:
1. How did you cut that second hole in the pipe?
2. Who at the prison helped you escape?
3. What was you're biggest mistake in the planning?
4. Did you leave Matt because he was a liability?
5. Did other prisoners know you were escaping?

 

[MinnesotaMary]

So...does that mean Tillie was plan A or plan B???

IMO: From what'all unfolded, I think Matt & Sweat TOTALLY RELIED upon Tillie to show up at the sewer lid around midnight. Tillie's tale (not tail....LOL) about her 'chickening out' when Matt talked about off'ing her hubby was IMO near-total baloney. IMO, maybe that part 'shaking Tillie up' a tinch was true - I am guessing that Tillie maybe did get rattled when it came time for her to off her hubby. HOWEVER, IMO, for sure Matt & Sweat just wanted Tillie's car so they could get to some Vermont hideaway/cabin which they'd described to her. The part that Tillie didn't know is that once Matt & Sweat got in the car with Tillie, Matt & Sweat would use her & do whatever was best for THEM, chew that dyed blonde up & then spit her on out.
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As to the person who doesn't understand WHY prison staff (one or more MEN, not women, IMO) would aid Matt & Sweat, IMO you don't understand cuz' you're too kind and innocent. The one or more additional Clinton staff who were a part of this caper did it most likely out of hatred for their boss at Clinton, rage at the Clinton staff 'pecking order', hate of their fellow workers & life. Call it years of 'simmering desire for REVENGE !!' lol - It's the exact same principle as when we had years & years of all those postal workers would 'go postal' on their coworkers & bosses, and IMO, helping Matt & Sweat out was a perfect dream come true for the twisted one more man or two at Clinton (staff) who pulled the strings on what happened.

 

[human]

Why would Sweat have a lack of schooling? Our schools here in Broome County are fantastic. I was taught in sixth grade the writing skills that took me throughout middle and high school in advanced english placement and served me beautifully in college throughout both of my degrees, keeping me a teacher's aide and getting one of my degrees awarded to me for writing despite me not even trying for that particular degree initially.

Just because people are illiterate morons now who use text-shorthand and think it's okay does NOT mean we were all taught poorly JMO.

We KNOW he wrote it already anyway. The handwriting matches the Have a Nice Day note. I see nothing in that writing that indicates a graduate level of writing skill required, nor even a high school level. That is just plain normal communication for anyone who isn't lazy or dyslexic IMO. Hrumph!

There is a citation here not too long ago that states that he was in foster homes and no record has been found of him attending any schools.

I am a retired teacher and can tell you when children move around a lot and are in foster care with "chemical issues" their education is intensely affected. A child who is under severe stress would be worried about his very being, not educational issues.

He is removed from his parent(s). That is one of the most basic of a child's needs.

 

[Foxfire]

Looks like Sweat is alive because he had a backpack containing pop tarts, just saying. Maybe they saved his life? If he is talking, I am sure people are sweating.

I stand by my theory that someone else cut that hole in the pipe, would have been near impossible from inside on the second one. In regards to Sweat, he spent three weeks traveling and was only a half hour from entering the wilds of Canada. Not leaving the area in those first 5 crucial hours was also a mistake. Maybe his planning needed work.Their B plan was destined to fail.

<BBM for Focus>

Pun intended?