NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9

[screecher]

Your allegations about Cuomo were far more specific, and the above citations have zero connection to your specific allegations.

Discussion of budget cuts is political, and I'm not going there, not least because they are irrelevant to what happened at Clinton that allowed Sweat and Matt to escape.

Hah! Do you honestly think Cuomo would print, for the public, the changes he made in the directives given to the DOC employees? LOL. The links I provided are just the tip of the iceberg that he and Annucci mandated. Their mind-set.

I beg to differ his budget cuts are irrelevant, it is the reason Racette was denied total lock down and prison wide frisk, hence the ability of two scumbags to escape. Why you think there were no previous escapes out of CCF?

Cheers.

 

[epiphany]

Does anyone know the statistics
of how many men are in this prison? and how many women are in this prison?
and exactly how many men/women were on the honor block?

Clinton County Correctional Facility: Male Only

Village of Dannemora: population, about 4,000

Number of Inmates: about 3,000

<snip> With about 3,000 inmates, Clinton is the largest prison in the state and the third oldest. It opened in 1845.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/n...nd-violent-criminals-is-embraced-by-town.html

Number of Inmates: more than 2,700

<snip> Clinton Correctional was initially intended to house approximately five hundred inmates, and has since grown to hold more than 2,700, while employing over 1,400 officers.

http://www.villageofdannemora.com/#!history/c1fur


<snip> About three-quarters of the prisoners are black or Latino, while none of the 929 corrections officers are black and five are Hispanic, according to a recent report by the Correctional Association of New York, a nonprofit inmates&#8217; advocacy group authorized by the state to inspect prisons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/n...nd-violent-criminals-is-embraced-by-town.html


Read somewhere that there are between 800-900 inmates housed in the Honor Block, But I don't have link handy...soo Not Sure

Also, I have never bumped into the number of employees that work/assigned to the Honor Block: civilian and/or COs

 

[screecher]

Sources for that article by Press-Republican are COs:

Interviews with active and retired correction officers, who spoke on condition of anonymity, show that events at the maximum-security prison leading up to the escape may have played a significant role.

<snip>

Officers say the measure would have surely turned up evidence that an escape attempt was in the works.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news...cle_2d77d6dc-0fa2-11e5-852d-4b0f1ef044c3.html

Correct.

 

[epiphany]

<snip>

Some security posts were no longer filled, despite modest increases in personnel over the last decade.

<snip>

Correction: June 21, 2015
...An earlier version of this article also misstated the change in personnel at the prison [CCF]. There has been a modest increase, not a reduction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/n...ape-an-array-of-oversights-set-the-stage.html

 

[screecher]

Whether or not Cuomo denied a lockdown isn't a matter of opinion. He either did or did not. You've said several times Cuomo denied permission for a lockdown. He did not.

I understand why Clinton CO's and officials want to duck responsibility for their prison "security" failures becoming a dangerous joke, but tough luck. Their job, their failure, their responsibility.

BBM

You have a link for that?

And I totally understand Cuomo and Annucci using the guys in the prison as pawns/scapegoats. It'll all come out in the wash. Just as the cause of the previous week's fight in the yard will. And it's gonna be a pretty dirty wash.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I've cut quite a bit of sheet metal with a hacksaw and even with a regular handled hacksaw and thin sheet metal there is no way I could keep that straight of a line.

What happens when cutting is the saw starts to go off at an angle and then you have to keep correcting the cut to go back the other way and you end up with a horrible looking cut. There is no way that was done with just a blade in someones hand. Nah No way.

Also to even start the blade through the metal you do need a drill to drill a large enough hole to get the blade into the hole to start sawing. So he is not mentioning about the drill part. You cant just start cutting without getting the blade through a hole.

I agree 100%. Keeping a hacksaw blade straight would be hard even if you were on the outside of the pipe in a comfortable position. Inside of the pipe, lying on your side and presumably with the blade over your head since I would think there would be very room to move the bade back and forth anyplace near your body, that seems impossible. Also, if you look at the pictures of the cut pipe with the “Have A Nice Day!” sticky note on it you will see a scratch line on the upper left part of the cut. This scratch looks like it is lined up with the left hand cut and is on the outside of the pipe.

Here is where I saw the picture I was referring to:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ionals-help-cutting-cell-wall-steam-pipe.html

 

[hoot owl]

Hah! Do you honestly think Cuomo would print, for the public, the changes he made in the directives given to the DOC employees? LOL. The links I provided are just the tip of the iceberg that he and Annucci mandated. Their mind-set.

I beg to differ his budget cuts are irrelevant, it is the reason Racette was denied total lock down and prison wide frisk, hence the ability of two scumbags to escape. Why you think there were no previous escapes out of CCF?

Cheers.

It appears that there were numerous infractions that allowed these two guys to escape, starting with guards asleep when they were supposed to be checking on the men on an hourly basis.

Why hasn't more information come out on the drug trafficking of heroin in there?
Why hasn't more information come out about the Warden being asleep on the job?
Why hasn't more information come out as to WHERE DID TILLIE GET THE HACK SAWS TO GIVE THE GUYS?
(Where is the video of her at the local K-MART on line AT THE REGISTER- purchasing the hack saws???)
Why hasn't more information come out as to
WHO DID THE 2 MEN (S&M) CALL ON TILLIES PHONES?
originally - they (the press) said that calls were made on Tillie's phone - by the two guys, but
WHO was called?

Why are we, the public, being left out in the dark!!!

Just for my own two cents, I don't think Cuomo will be in office come labor day. I really don't.
<modsnip>

 

[Hatfield]

Im still not convinced it was even a hacksaw that made the cut. I was thinking more perhaps an acetylyn torch or some sort of torch cutting tool.

I would like to see a closeup of the edges of the cuts on the metal but I dont think there is any pictures of that.

Lets assume hacksaw blade was used for now. Then I want to hear about the drill because here is what has to happen. A hacksaw blade is roughly 1/2 inch wide. So you need to first drill 1/2 inch hole in the pipe to put the blade into the hole so you can start sawing up and down.

Now heres the thing. Its pretty darn tough to use a typical electric drill and use a 1/2 inch drill bit. So what is normally done is you use 1/4 drill bit and then just drill about 3 holes all close to each other and then finally use the drill in a sawing action to connect the holes. That allows you to get a hole big enough for the 1/2 wide hacksaw blade to fit into so you can begin sawing.

So somebody needs to ask Sweat all about the drill that he would have had to have been used.

IMO, someone on the outside of that pipe cut that square hole for him. I dont think he did it himself. Because there is no way Sweat had an electric cord to go all the way to that pipe hole and you have to have a drill to get started.

 

[Cobra Jet]

IMO, someone on the outside of that pipe cut that square hole for him. I dont think he did it himself. Because there is no way Sweat had an electric cord to go all the way to that pipe hole and you have to have a drill to get started.

I think he said he didn&#8217;t use any power tools so he would have had to drill the holes by hand.

 

[Paulas88]

It appears that there were numerous infractions that allowed these two guys to escape, starting with guards asleep when they were supposed to be checking on the men on an hourly basis.

Why hasn't more information come out on the drug trafficking of heroin in there?
Why hasn't more information come out about the Warden being asleep on the job?
Why hasn't more information come out as to WHERE DID TILLIE GET THE HACK SAWS TO GIVE THE GUYS?
(Where is the video of her at the local K-MART on line AT THE REGISTER- purchasing the hack saws???)
Why hasn't more information come out as to
WHO DID THE 2 MEN (S&M) CALL ON TILLIES PHONES?
originally - they (the press) said that calls were made on Tillie's phone - by the two guys, but
WHO was called?

Why are we, the public, being left out in the dark!!!

Just for my own two cents, I don't think Cuomo will be in office come labor day. I really don't.
<modnsip>

Really good post. Seems everything is politics. I don't believe that tool box was left
by a contractor... that's absolutely ridiculous. I also would like to know how Joyce
had the power to have RM and DS have adjacent cells? Crazy.

 

[BUF]

Although an escape has not happened in many years, there were actually some at Clinton Correctional. This is an interesting read if anyone is interested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/10/n...on-was-neither-the-first-nor-the-boldest.html

 

[Paulas88]

IMO
That was probably the deal she made. This is why it was called murder-for-hire plot. She probably asked Matt...

"Hey, If I give you a ride will you kill Lyle for me?"

Then she panicked when things became real. And she didnt tell anybody about anything. She just freaked and went to hospital. If he ends up dead, so be it. She didnt care about anyone but herself.

And she sure didnt tell anyone anything till LE started asking her questions. Then after that first meeting with LE she kept coming back in voluntarily each day to talk with them more and more. The whole time she was thinking she wasnt going to be charged because in her mind she was helping LE and she only did minor things wrong. She thought they would just tell her not to ever do that again. LOL

I wonder if the LE did a search on her home immediately.... wouldn't they have found her belongings packed (she had to have something packed) and she must have had the pills.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree 100%. Keeping a hacksaw blade straight would be hard even if you were on the outside of the pipe in a comfortable position. Inside of the pipe, lying on your side and presumably with the blade over your head since I would think there would be very room to move the bade back and forth anyplace near your body, that seems impossible. Also, if you look at the pictures of the cut pipe with the “Have A Nice Day!” sticky note on it you will see a scratch line on the upper left part of the cut. This scratch looks like it is lined up with the left hand cut and is on the outside of the pipe.

Here is where I saw the picture I was referring to:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ionals-help-cutting-cell-wall-steam-pipe.html

Re BBM

ABSOLUTELY!!!

I totally missed that. You are exactly right. Those scoring marks are done on the outside to help whatever cutting tool was used from the OUTSIDE to cut that hole.

Also, look at the size of that hole. It is way larger than needed. There is no way Sweat would take the time to cut that big of a hole when you only need to squeeze through.

And it would most likely be round hole for body shape and not a square. The reason it is square is whatever tool was used from the outside is good at cutting straight lines.

Yeah, that scoring mark in top left is all the proof we need that the cut was done from outside.

Now the big question. Who helped the prisoners by cutting that hole.? LOL

 

[bestill]

Any thoughts that the hole has been there for sometime, maybe other inmates know about it, but no one has taken advantage of it?

 

[epiphany]

IF and that's a big IF, Sweat did not use any power tools as he is claiming, then there must have been more than one drop-off of hacksaw blades to his cell. Tillie can't walk on the block and hand packages over to Matt or Sweat:

<snip>

Clinton County Sheriff David Favro finds that unimaginable but said "anything is possible."

If Sweat's statements to police are true, Sweat must have had extraordinary patience as he carried out his escape plan because it likely would have taken him months to cut through his steel cell wall, pipes and the manhole cover, he said.

"I doubt that it's just that one package of meat that came in with a couple blades in it" would be enough, Favro added.

It could have taken 100 blades to do the job, he said.

Wylie wouldn't say whether he believed it was possible for the escape to be executed without power tools.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news...cle_81ec0f4b-6d6b-5a66-844c-82d545c0db9a.html

 

[hoot owl]

This is one movie on Lifetime TV that I definitely want to see.

 

[shannahg]

I'm not sure how to bold or paste someone's comment yet. In response to the scoring on the outside surface of pipe, could that possibly be a cut all the way through from the inside and not necessarily a score on exterior?

I don't know much about cutting steel pipe so I'm just curious. Also, does anyone know what the diameter of the pipe is in relation to the size of the cut out. I don't recall seeing any dimensions given but if there were, I apologize!

I don't believe a hacksaw could have done that cut anyway. I first saw it and thought torch. I work in the plastic fabrication industry and when the guys cut through hdpe plate, it isn't tends to veer one way or the other, straight is very difficult even with plastic (1" thk).

I'm also curious - Hatfield, wouldn't using a hacksaw on metal be pretty loud sawing? And what about blades...how many blades would one go through to do something like that?

 

[shannahg]

Lol Epiphany wrote the same thought on the blades. I wasn't sure how many but I do know they would have dulled pretty quickly trying to cut through steel.

 

[Hope4More]

About complaints by some former Honor Block inmates that they are being mistreated while being questioned about the escape.

One article I read said the ex- Blockees have been transported out of Clinton and dispersed to other prisons.

Just a guess, but if that's true I can imagine CO's elsewhere assume at least some of those inmates heard Sweat and Matt hacking through walls and said nothing, and that many more became way too accustomed to privileged treatment by Clinton's CO's.

Maybe some corrective correctionals going on, then, appropriate or not.

 

[shannahg]

I assume they don't make a super duper high performance diamond encrusted tri-clad turbo blade lol