NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9

[Hatfield]

I'm not sure how to bold or paste someone's comment yet. In response to the scoring on the outside surface of pipe, could that possibly be a cut all the way through from the inside and not necessarily a score on exterior?

I don't know much about cutting steel pipe so I'm just curious. Also, does anyone know what the diameter of the pipe is in relation to the size of the cut out. I don't recall seeing any dimensions given but if there were, I apologize!

I don't believe a hacksaw could have done that cut anyway. I first saw it and thought torch. I work in the plastic fabrication industry and when the guys cut through hdpe plate, it isn't tends to veer one way or the other, straight is very difficult even with plastic (1" thk).

I'm also curious - Hatfield, wouldn't using a hacksaw on metal be pretty loud sawing? And what about blades...how many blades would one go through to do something like that?

Re BBM
There was previous articles that said the cells were always noisy because of loud music playing by inmates or loud singing and yelling all the time so noise they may have been able to cover but.....

Yea on the hacksaw blades. Everyone is correct that they do get dull pretty quick and especially going through that kind of tough pipe. It would have taken many blades to make any kind of good progress on the hole.

Im thinking more and more it was some kind of Acetelyn Torch cutting tool or some other kind of major electric cutting tool. I bet the workers on the prison had generators they would have close by for power. Unless there is electric sockets close by.

 

[Abigail]

They shoot to kill because they may not get a second chance and they are aiming for the largest target which is center mass. That means usually your heart/lungs/chest area. jmo

That's right. Usually not head unless close. I find it curious that they shot him in the head.

 

[Hatfield]

I increased the size of the picture of that hole and that scoring mark on top left is definitely on outside of pipe. It is just a score going partially through the edge of the pipe so it proves from outside.

Also another proof it was done from outside is the location of the hole. Notice the wall in the picture. If they were on inside of pipe there is no way they would know they were exactly less than 1 foot just outside of that wall.

Yeah, this was an "outside job". LOL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ionals-help-cutting-cell-wall-steam-pipe.html

 

[Abigail]

CBP Statement on the Agent Involved Shooting near Malone, New York


http://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/speeche...statement-agent-involved-shooting-near-malone

One of the agents came up on an individual who was lying down behind a fallen tree. Agents verbally ordered the individual to put his hands up. An agent observed the individual fail to comply with the verbal commands and aim what was determined to be a 20-gauge shotgun at him. The agent discharged his service-issued M-4, striking the individual, who died at the scene.

OK, well that explains a lot! If Matt were lying on the ground, facing LE, and pointing his gun at them -- of course, they would shoot if he didn't put up his hands. And, because of his position on the ground -- his head would get hit rather than center mass. But...bullets in back of head...could that be exit wounds? One appears to have brain matter coming out, which would seem more likely with exit than entry wounds...so...was he shot in the face?

 

[Hatfield]

Sorry so many posts about the hole. 1 last one.

They could not have even held onto the blade because it gets too hot too quick. Those hacksaw blades get extremely hot with just a couple strokes of metal on metal. I suppose they could have used heavy duty gloves but its just not making sense.

I am finally at a point where I would bet serious money that someone else cut that hole for them. And no matter who cut it, I can guarantee it was done from outside. LOL

 

[epiphany]

This really creeped me out about Palmer. Why would a benefit for Matt be the movement of other inmates!!! Wouldn't that be a benefit for Palmer? But that's not how Palmer's statement (from court docs) reads:

<snip>

"Matt provided me with elaborate paintings and information on the illegal acts that inmates were committing within the facility," the statement said. "In turn, I provided him with benefits such as paint, paintbrushes, movement of inmates, hamburger meat, altering of electrical boxes in the catwalk areas."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/corrections-officer-gene-palmer-arrested-ny-prison-escape/story?id=32009973

 

[epiphany]

Have a great holiday weekend & stay safe all!

 

[Hatfield]

This really creeped me out about Palmer. Why would a benefit for Matt be the movement of other inmates!!! Wouldn't that be a benefit for Palmer? But that's not how Palmer's statement (from court docs) reads:

<snip>

"Matt provided me with elaborate paintings and information on the illegal acts that inmates were committing within the facility," the statement said. "In turn, I provided him with benefits such as paint, paintbrushes, movement of inmates, hamburger meat, altering of electrical boxes in the catwalk areas."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/corrections-officer-gene-palmer-arrested-ny-prison-escape/story?id=32009973

Great question. Why in the world would Matt be interested in where inmates got moved to?

 

[Abigail]

This really creeped me out about Palmer. Why would a benefit for Matt be the movement of other inmates!!! Wouldn't that be a benefit for Palmer? But that's not how Palmer's statement (from court docs) reads:

<snip>

"Matt provided me with elaborate paintings and information on the illegal acts that inmates were committing within the facility," the statement said. "In turn, I provided him with benefits such as paint, paintbrushes, movement of inmates, hamburger meat, altering of electrical boxes in the catwalk areas."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/corrections-officer-gene-palmer-arrested-ny-prison-escape/story?id=32009973

Didn't Tillie ask Palmer to have Sweat and Matt moved to adjoining cells? Would that be "movement of inmates"?

 

[jking]

Great question. Why in the world would Matt be interested in where inmates got moved to?

Could he have meant if Matt didn't get along with someone, that person would get moved to somewhere that Matt wouldn't have to see him?

 

[Paulas88]

Great question. Why in the world would Matt be interested in where inmates got moved to?

Getting DS's cell moved adjacent to his own?

 

[Caffeine]

Matt was a convicted murdered who escaped prison, had a shotgun with him and refused to comply with verbal commands...that's why he was shot in the head.

The border agent probably has a family he'd like to go home to. Shooting for center mass isn't always instantly incapacitating, even with a rifle. Several rounds to the head is pretty much an instant stop.

I doubt anyone present would have given him the opportunity to fire a round with the shotgun.

 

[Caycee]

I can't seem to find pictures of both holes that were cut into the pipe. Isn't the one with the note the one they crawled into? Where is the one that was cut that they crawled out of? I want to see the outside of that hole.

For some reason I am still hung up on the magnet holding that sticky note. Who brings a magnet? I think there had to have been a series of those notes marking their path or another purpose for that magnet.Can you detect a magnet with another magnet through the pipe?

 

[Hatfield]

Didn't Tillie ask Palmer to have Sweat and Matt moved to adjoining cells? Would that be "movement of inmates"?

Getting DS's cell moved adjacent to his own?

Yes. I bet that was it.

It was Matts pre-planning to find out when he could get 2 cells close together so him and Sweat could plan their escape together and be along the same wall.

Being together like that allowed verbal contact for planning. That is huge. Made the escape planning much easier since they could just talk together whenever they wanted.

 

[shannahg]

In regards to the method of escape, is that pipe an air duct?

Also, when they crawled out of that one, they were out of the bldg and standing outside on the grounds, right? So did they go back underground via a manhole and follow the pipe to a manhole further away from the prison?

I guess those were storm water drainage and not sewer manholes, otherwise I can see why RM got sick.

Whoever helped them on the outside (cutting the hole) would have been taking a HUGE risk of being seen. I would think the area is well lit at night. That person had to have an extremely good incentive to risk being caught cutting into a max security prison. That's a little above and beyond friendship expectations. This entire breakout just amazes me. I just can't grasp the fact that these 2 guys would have pulled this off OR that someone would be willing to put their job and their freedom on the line for 2 convicts who had the urge to escape.

 

[shannahg]

@ Caycee, good point on the magnet. How does one acquire that item without raising suspicion. They must have lived on hamburgers!

 

[screecher]

It appears that there were numerous infractions that allowed these two guys to escape, starting with guards asleep when they were supposed to be checking on the men on an hourly basis.

Why hasn't more information come out on the drug trafficking of heroin in there?
Why hasn't more information come out about the Warden being asleep on the job?
Why hasn't more information come out as to WHERE DID TILLIE GET THE HACK SAWS TO GIVE THE GUYS?
(Where is the video of her at the local K-MART on line AT THE REGISTER- purchasing the hack saws???)
Why hasn't more information come out as to
WHO DID THE 2 MEN (S&M) CALL ON TILLIES PHONES?
originally - they (the press) said that calls were made on Tillie's phone - by the two guys, but
WHO was called?

Why are we, the public, being left out in the dark!!!

Just for my own two cents, I don't think Cuomo will be in office come labor day. I really don't.
<modsnip>

Yeah. I can see PB doing that. Trouble is, PB doesn't have the backing of the people with the power. Specifically, most of the judges. I just don't seeing Cuomo resigning, especially after this farce of sanctioning the prisons workers. This was supposed to be his saving grace. lol. But certainly another thing for PB to delve into. Cuomo won't be able to sweep this under the rug, as there were multiple agencies involved and those agencies are wanting to know the hows and whys this could happen.

 

[Abigail]

Looks like Sweat told investigators where all their pit stops were? Or maybe these locations were noted on a map he and/or Matt had on them.


New York State Police continue to investigate Matt and Sweat's escape

PRESS RELEASE

The New York State Police continue to follow up on the investigation regarding Richard Matt and David Sweat, including areas they are believed to have traveled between June 6, 2015, and June 28, 2015. The State Police request anyone who owns seasonal homes, camps, or vacant structures in the following areas check their properties and contact the State Police if they discover items on their property that may have been left and/or discover their items are missing:

• Hugh Heron Road and Clark Hill Road in the town of Saranac

• Standish Road between Piney Ridge Road and the hamlet of Standish

• Wolf Pond Road in the town of Bellmont

• County Route 41 in the town of Malone

• Webster Road in the town of Malone

• State Route 30 in the town of Malone in the area of County Route 41 and Lake Titus

• East of County Route 25, from the hamlet of Chasm Falls north to the area of Badore Road in the town of Malone

• Perham, Pikeville, Vincent, Finney, Fleury, Spencer and Coveytown Roads in the town of Burke

Anyone who finds items left at their property or discovers items that are missing is asked to call the New York State Police Bureau of Criminal Investigations at (518) 897-2000.

https://www.nyspnews.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=46457

Here's sort of a map of their progression from cabin to cabin
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cli...f1525d4213!2m2!1d-74.1693397!2d44.9047681!3e0

 

[shannahg]

So if investigation shows the pipe was cut from the outside, there goes Sweat's brownie points for leverage on the 23/7. That proves he is lying. Perhaps he's giving them info behind the scenes that we aren't privy to. (About helpers). It depends on how claustrophobic he is and how badly he wants to shorten that isolation time as to whether he would give up the roles of any of the others, I guess. If they confront him with facts about lying, he's going to be looking at a pretty bleak picture for his near future unless he starts using some of those bargaining chips.

 

[bestill]

Here's sort of a map of their progression from cabin to cabin
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cli...f1525d4213!2m2!1d-74.1693397!2d44.9047681!3e0

This is great, now I understand the backtracking, and remember the searches around Wolf Pond Road, Tiitus, Malone, etc...thank you for doing this!