NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9

[Cobra Jet]

David Sweat spent hours cutting 16-inch escape pipe by hand, source says

"A source close to the prisoner escape investigation says convicted murderer David Sweat cut the pipe he and Richard Matt used to escape by hand.

[...]

The source said investigators asked him questions about how Sweat made the cuts in the prison pipe. He said the cuts were made by hand and he used hacksaw blades.

The source said Sweat did not use a jigsaw, torch, drill or sawzall to cut through the pipe. He believes Sweat could have worked between 16 and 18 hours a day for four weeks to make the cuts needed to escape.

[...]


The pipe was 16 inches wide, 14 feet long and three-eighths of an inch thick.

After crawling through the pipe, investigators said Sweat and Matt reached a 6-by-7-foot tunnel where they could stand and walk to a manhole."

http://m.wptz.com/news/david-sweat-...gn=wptz&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it


He was unaccounted for for 16-18 hours a day??!!! For four weeks?!!!

In the pictures that I have seen the cuts look to good to have been cut by hand laying on your side inside of a pipe.

 

[Hope4More]

Yeah, Cuomo and Annucci would like the general public to believe they put these 'changes' in place lol. Truth is, and not just in Clinton, these 'changes' were always in place, until the past few years when Cuomo ordered cut backs due to budget.

In fact, a week before this escape, there were 50+ inmates fighting in the yard, Cuomo denied request for lock down and prison wide frisk. BTW, he also stopped cat-walk duty years ago.

Pfft. Links please, about Cuomo making specific prison policies? Cuomo doesn't micromanage prison management decisions. Political finger pointing always follows this kind of event, and fingers are pointing like crazy this time around, especially those who didn't like Cuomo to begin with.

 

[BUF]

So it looks like Matt's son is the one who claimed it...

Lois Clermont
6h6 hours ago
Lois Clermont ‏@EditorLois
Richard Matt's body is released to a Plattsburgh funeral home, after his son claims it. #PrisonBreakNY

 

[Abigail]

Whew! FINALLY finished reading the last thread, and now only 163 on this new one! I WILL catch up one of these days! I did think that a lot of you had some insightful thoughts and theories on various aspects of this case, and I did enjoy reading and thinking about them.

I think I agree with GGE that Sweat is probably telling the truth, for the most part. He really has nothing to lose, except perhaps some repercussions from CO's -- so he may be glossing over any aid that came from them (I did note that Palmer suddenly decided to admit to selling Matt/Sweat's artwork AFTER Sweat was captured alive, and think perhaps he may suddenly remember some other details he failed to divulge in his investigation).

Getting back to Tillie and the plot to kill Lyle -- you guys have hashed this over a lot, and I think I agree with the general consensus among many that the reason Lyle had to die was to give them more time to escape. I think they chose Friday night as the optimal time to escape, because Tillie and Lyle (probably) wouldn't be scheduled to work over the weekend. So, I think they were hopeful that if she picked them up around midnight, they would then have all day and all night Saturday and Sunday to drive before Tillie and Lyle failed to show up for work on Monday morning. (and they could switch out driving and cover a lot of territory in 54 hours or so of travel time. Well, even less than that, because it only takes 34 hours driving time to reach the border of Mexico from the prison. But, the problem was that even if they drugged Lyle on Friday night, he would eventually wake up, and then report his missing wife and car to police, and then there would be an all-points bulletin out.

A lot of us were thinking that it would be a waste of time to drive an hour west to the Mitchell home in Dickinson Center to kill Lyle. But it really wouldn't be out of the way if their destination was Mexico (rather than Vermont, as Tillie was saying). From Dickinson Center, they could get on Rte 11, and then that would take them right to I-81 and then it would be smooth sailing from there on out. They wouldn't even have to worry about driving on interstates, because no one would know that Tillie was missing for 2 days. (Of course, they'd monitor the news just to be sure). And, while killing Lyle, they could kill Tillie right then and just leave her there.

I also changed my mind about Mexico. Originally, I was thinking it was unlikely that Matt would want to return there, since he was tortured so badly in the Mexican prison. But then I remembered that he alluded to learning Spanish while he was in prison down there (and he was down there for what, 7 years? 9 years?). So, he would be able to speak the language, and with his dark looks, even fit in a bit. Maybe that's why Sweat agreed to have him come along. Matt already knew the area, and the language. Of course, they wouldn't have to stay in Mexico, they could head south from there. And probably have a little business selling paintings to tourists (and probably some other stuff as well).

Where did the maps and all come from? I guess that must have been plan B.

 

[cady]

Well, gee Sweat makes it sound like he did all the work....what was Matt good for? Just diddling Tillie for favors? JMO

 

[bestill]

So it looks like Matt's son is the one who claimed it...

Lois Clermont
6h6 hours ago
Lois Clermont ‏@EditorLois
Richard Matt's body is released to a Plattsburgh funeral home, after his son claims it. #PrisonBreakNY

Who's paying for the funeral expenses? I doubt that young man has the funds, he said he was taking care of his sick mother too, so she probably doesn't have the funds either.

 

[cady]

Who's paying for the funeral expenses? I doubt that young man has the funds, he said he was taking care of his sick mother too, so she probably doesn't have the funds either.

Cremation without fanfare is around $2,000, I think. JMO

 

[Abigail]

On the prior thread I suggested that the LE who shot Matt might have been in a tree. The LE was with a tactical unit. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but when I think of tactical, I think of more unconventional methods than is used by regular LE units.

That's right. I remember reading that he was a sniper, and that's precisely what a sniper would do -- try to find a high point, somewhere. Perhaps a hunting stand in a tree. Or perhaps just a ridge or something. That would explain the shots in the top of his head (if he were standing; he may have been sitting, or slumped over drunk, for all we know).

 

[Caffeine]

It's tough to tell from the picture but based on how Matt was slumped over I don't think he was standing upright. Perhaps sitting or crouching in hopes of not being detected.

 

[Hatfield]

In the pictures that I have seen the cuts look to good to have been cut by hand laying on your side inside of a pipe.

I've cut quite a bit of sheet metal with a hacksaw and even with a regular handled hacksaw and thin sheet metal there is no way I could keep that straight of a line.

What happens when cutting is the saw starts to go off at an angle and then you have to keep correcting the cut to go back the other way and you end up with a horrible looking cut. There is no way that was done with just a blade in someones hand. Nah No way.

Also to even start the blade through the metal you do need a drill to drill a large enough hole to get the blade into the hole to start sawing. So he is not mentioning about the drill part. You cant just start cutting without getting the blade through a hole.

 

[kaen]

That's right. I remember reading that he was a sniper, and that's precisely what a sniper would do -- try to find a high point, somewhere. Perhaps a hunting stand in a tree. Or perhaps just a ridge or something. That would explain the shots in the top of his head (if he were standing; he may have been sitting, or slumped over drunk, for all we know).

When it was reported that Matt was told to raise his hands, it was not reported that the same officer who commanded him to raise his hands was the same officer that shot him. If he was surrounded, one officer might have been in front of him while others were behind or perpendicular to him. If he did not comply, one of the other officers could have had the clear shot and fired.

 

[cady]

CBP Statement on the Agent Involved Shooting near Malone, New York


http://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/speeche...statement-agent-involved-shooting-near-malone

One of the agents came up on an individual who was lying down behind a fallen tree. Agents verbally ordered the individual to put his hands up. An agent observed the individual fail to comply with the verbal commands and aim what was determined to be a 20-gauge shotgun at him. The agent discharged his service-issued M-4, striking the individual, who died at the scene.

This is from this morning. JMO

 

[mrsobrien]

Not to be morbid, but where can pic(s) of Matt be seen? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

[cady]

Not to be morbid, but where can pic(s) of Matt be seen? I feel like I'm missing something.

Maybe Daily Mail or just google...JMO

 

[Hope4More]

Honor block inmates, with the exception of Matt and Sweat, were already pissed off before the escape, hence the fighting in the yard a week before. Cuomo and Annucci denied a lock down and a prison wide frisk. JMO, of course.

Whether or not Cuomo denied a lockdown isn't a matter of opinion. He either did or did not. You've said several times Cuomo denied permission for a lockdown. He did not.

I understand why Clinton CO's and officials want to duck responsibility for their prison "security" failures becoming a dangerous joke, but tough luck. Their job, their failure, their responsibility.

 

[Greater Than]

Not to be morbid, but where can pic(s) of Matt be seen? I feel like I'm missing something.

http://wivb.com/2015/06/30/graphic-photo-obtained-of-richard-matts-body-after-shooting/

 

[screecher]

Pfft. Links please, about Cuomo making specific prison policies? Cuomo doesn't micromanage prison management decisions. Political finger pointing always follows this kind of event, and fingers are pointing like crazy this time around, especially those who didn't like Cuomo to begin with.

This absolutely has to do with micro-management. The bolded above would be hilarious, if not for the chaos and extreme danger that has ensued and placed on everyone who walks through those doors. It is all about the budget. Savings.

Just a few links.

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2010/Consolidations2010.html

http://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-closure-seven-state-prison-facilities

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2013/Prison_Closure_Announcement.html

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2014/Governor_Cuomo_Grants_Pardons_3.pdf

Pfft.

 

[Hope4More]

Sources for that article by Press-Republican are COs:

Interviews with active and retired correction officers, who spoke on condition of anonymity, show that events at the maximum-security prison leading up to the escape may have played a significant role.

<snip>

Officers say the measure would have surely turned up evidence that an escape attempt was in the works.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news...cle_2d77d6dc-0fa2-11e5-852d-4b0f1ef044c3.html

Yep, a real lockdown might have "turned up evidence" of the escape plans and prevented the escape. Right. What else might have prevented the escape that was entirely within Clinton employees' routine discretion ? Hmm..

1. Following routine policy and doing required bedchecks, including the use of light, despite inmates complaining of being "bothered by the light."

2. Not allowing inmates to cover their cell doors with sheets for weeks at a time. Gee, maybe a CO would have seen the post-it notes on their cell walls - the notes they now say held evidence and clues about the escape.

3. Not allowing convicted murderers the ridiculous privilege of being promoted to an "Honor Block, especially those with a history of prison escapes.

4. Not violating security procedures by allowing CO's to bypass all screening and security checkpoints.

Etc. Etc. Etc., Yada yada yada. Sheesh.

 

[Hope4More]

This absolutely has to do with micro-management. The bolded above would be hilarious, if not for the chaos and extreme danger that has ensued and placed on everyone who walks through those doors. It is all about the budget. Savings.

Just a few links.

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2010/Consolidations2010.html

http://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-closure-seven-state-prison-facilities

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2013/Prison_Closure_Announcement.html

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/2014/Governor_Cuomo_Grants_Pardons_3.pdf

Pfft.

Your allegations about Cuomo were far more specific, and the above citations have zero connection to your specific allegations.

Discussion of budget cuts is political, and I'm not going there, not least because they are irrelevant to what happened at Clinton that allowed Sweat and Matt to escape.

 

[screecher]

I cannot imagine why he would deny the request for lock down and/or prison-wide frisk or why they would even have to ask him. Must have been related to an expense request, as in: "can we have some money to spend on ....."
But who in their right mind would say no to such a request?

BBM

Every prison superintendent in NYS must make a request to Anthony Annucci for a prison wide lock down and prison wide frisk. This last one, a week before the escape, requested by Steven Racette, was denied. At one time, it was the superintendents call. Alas, that has changed, among other thing.

Bolded above...someone who has never worked inside a prisons.