NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9

[Cobra Jet]

How would you make the longer cut?

I agree that you would not be able to do that same thing on the top and bottom cuts because there is no curve on the pipe to help with the cut. Someone would likely just round the corners with the cut since that seems the easiest but the picture show a nice 45 degree cut. The more we get into the whole hacksaw blade thing the less sense it seems to make.

 

[BUF]

:gasp: lmao at title !!!!! Captured killer says husband slay plan was Shaw-*advertiser censored*’s idea http://nypost.com/2015/07/02/captured-killer-says-husband-slay-plan-was-shaw-skanks-idea/

LOL! Yep...the Post!

 

[Dr. Watson]

This story is starting to dry up now. Not much more info with Sweat. Gene was not implicated at all by Sweat, Tilly was in a murder plot, and a bunch of things stolen from a bunch of cabins. The only real excitement is a back pack now? The only issue really left is going to be Tilly and her trial.

 

[Abigail]

Why might Clinton CO's and others in the lower-medium ranks of the DOC system-wide want to blame Albany (besides wanting to shift blame)? Maybe because they don't get paid well enough, the job is hellish, and......they may have fears about job security :



2014 NY DOC RESTRUCTURING AND CUTS RESULTED FROM DECLINE IN PRISON POPULATION, ESPECIALLY IN MEDIUM SECURITY FACILITIES.


(note: Earlier facility closures (2011-2014) were also prompted by a decade-long gradual decline in inmate population).

(paraphrasing from 2/15/2014 press release): http://www.doccs.ny.gov/PressRel/index.html

DECLINE IN OVERALL PRISON POPULATION

In the last decade, the crime rate fell by 13 percent in New York. The inmate population declined 25 percent, from an all-time high of 71,600 in 1999 to approximately 54,200 today.

(note: the all-time high inmate population was in large part due to implementation of the “War on Drugs).

DECLINE IN DRUG-OFFENDER POPULATION IN MEDIUM SECURITY FACILITIES

1996: 24,000 drug offenders in New York State prisons.

2013 (end of year): less than 6,700, a 72 percent decline.


INMATE POPULATION DECLINE LED TO RESTRUCTURING


**Over 5,500 prison beds were eliminated between 2011 through July 2014,

** 13 (or 14?) minimum and medium security facilities were closed down

** Staff from closing facilities were allowed to transfer to other prisons, other state agencies or retirement

** $50 million fund set up for affected communities where facilities were located (acknowledging the impact of lost jobs, etc. due to closures).

** Closures resulted in approx. $184 million savings in years 2011-2013

Correction officers in New York state make $39, 047 when they begin training, and, at the end of their first year, they make $46,990. From there, they get regular raises -- 10 years in, they're making more than $60,000. They DO get paid enough -- considering that the vast majority of COs have only a high school education. I don't make that much, and I have a masters degree.

They do have a highly dangerous job, and there is always the fear of job security -- especially in the far northern areas where there little other employment opportunities, and clearly none in the $50K range for those whose education has not progressed beyond high school.

 

[Abigail]

There are a couple of excellent comments to this article IMO, both made by the same individual, speaking to prison security.

I especially appreciated the one comment suggesting that the guards on night shift read mail coming in and out of the prison. That makes sense -- the night shift guards don't have a lot going on, except for the hourly checks. According to one news account that I read (pertaining the the suicide of an inmate at another prison) the night guards routinely are on the computer playing games or conducting personal business or simply chatting with each other.

 

[Abigail]

The two broke into only a handful of cabins. Only one of those cabins--the one leased by Clinton CO's, was close to any place that could be considered a resort area.

The cabins they broke into were isolated, deep woods hunter type camps most likely owned by locals. Local hunters aren't likely to haul stuff to a hunting camp in a $180 specialty backpack, much less to leave one behind in a cabin, IMO.

None of the cabins seems a likely destination for weekend hikers, and even if do, what hiker or backpacker is going to leave their backpack behind? Doesn't make sense.

I think it's entirely possible it was bought for the escape. Say it was bought in Plattsburgh at DSG. DSG isn't a backpacking store and options for backpacks would be limited, especially large backpacks the size of the one Sweat had.

Someone unfamiliar with backpacks or that kind of recreational gear wouldn't have any reason to know it isn't a common brand.

They broke into about a dozen cabins, accdg to a posting with link earlier on this thread -- LE listed all the locations (apparently based on what Sweat told them) but weren't apparently sure of the exact location of the cabins, so were asking people who had cabins in those areas to check them for missing items, or items left there by an unauthorized person. I do agree that the brand and expense of this particular backpack raises some eyebrows. As mentioned, it's not something likely to be left behind in a cabin. At the same time, it seems unlikely an accomplice would put out that much money on a backpack, unless the desire was for a camoflouge pattern, and that was all available. I almost fear for the original theory, that some hiker (or cabin occupant) may have been killed for it (and the food and supplies that would have been inside). Perhaps a hiker that had already set out before the escape became known.

 

[Abigail]

Swimteam Mom and former swimteam member from VT just chiming in to say that TYR is very popular in this area as well. All our swimsuits and gear are TYR. I'd say of those who have actual swim backpacks 90% are tyr. Ours are lol. Most people I know of purchase them online though.

OK, stupid question -- what exactly is a swim backpack? Obviously, one isn't going to swim with a backpack, so why a backpack designed for swimmers? Wouldn't any old sort of pack do? Or, maybe for teams, everything has to coordinate?

And Happy 4th of July! :happy4th:

 

[Abigail]

NY is a very big state. . I've only looked into where TYR backpacks are sold in northern NY.

TYR has a store locator for all retail shops selling that specific backpack, and the 2 stores I listed are the only 2 stores in a radius of under 90 miles from Dannemora.

The zipcode there is 12929 if you keep looking...


ETA- looks like REI doesn't sell TYR backpacks anyway...though they do sell lots of TYR swim stuff.

Superb sleuthing here. You should pass along to LE.

 

[watergirl62]

OK, stupid question -- what exactly is a swim backpack? Obviously, one isn't going to swim with a backpack, so why a backpack designed for swimmers? Wouldn't any old sort of pack do? Or, maybe for teams, everything has to coordinate?

And Happy 4th of July! :happy4th:

It would likely be designed with a fair amount of mesh fabric for air circulation for a wet swimsuit, fins, paddles, goggles, pull buoy, swim towel, etc.

 

[Mountaingazer]

It would likely be designed with a fair amount of mesh fabric for air circulation for a wet swimsuit, fins, paddles, goggles, pull buoy, swim towel, etc.

Exactly this. They are made with a quick dry fabric and lots of mesh to help air circulate. They also usually have a waterproof compartment for valuables. I love them! We use them for our beach trips, hiking, and of course swim practice/ meets.

 

[Abigail]

Sweat lawyered up...

Sweat spilled his guts for several hours late Sunday and early Monday while being treated for gunshot wounds he suffered while trying to run from a state trooper into the woods near the Canadian border. The trooper shot him twice in the torso.

Sweat has since gotten a lawyer and has not been questioned further.

More...

http://nypost.com/2015/07/02/captured-killer-says-husband-slay-plan-was-shaw-skanks-idea/

Quite frankly, I doubt Sweat's denial of sex with Tillie. She said it happened, another prisoner said it happened, and a female CO reported her for doing it -- even though proof could not be found, that's why Sweat was transferred out of the tailor shop. That's 3 to 1. There would be no reason for Tillie to admit to such wrong-doing if it never happened. And there would be good reason for Sweat to deny it -- saving face, for one thing, when he gets back to prison. And pay-backs for Tillie, who first dumped him for Matt, and then, failed to pick them up. I think he followed enough of the news reports while on the run to realize that Tillie was singing like a bird, but nothing had yet been pinned on the CO's, other than Palmer. And more pay-backs by accusing her of being the one who wanted her husband dead -- which doesn't seem as logical as him needing to be killed to give the escapees a 2 day head start with the Mitchell's vehicle.

I do find it interesting, though, that Sweat reported Tillie was having sex with the COs. I kinda believe that -- given Tillie's past. Maybe Palmer could be manipulated with baked goods, but some of the other COs needed a little more.

I wonder why Sweat was so accommodating about all the details of the escape, and then suddenly got a lawyer? I mean, it's not like they could add on any more time to life in prison. It makes me wonder if he really did kill someone for that backpack, and he clammed up when they started asking about it. Maybe he doesn't want to be known as the killer of an innocent citizen? Or...maybe they were questioning him as to whether a CO gave it to him?

:happy4th:

 

[LinasK]

OK, stupid question -- what exactly is a swim backpack? Obviously, one isn't going to swim with a backpack, so why a backpack designed for swimmers? Wouldn't any old sort of pack do? Or, maybe for teams, everything has to coordinate?

And Happy 4th of July! :happy4th:

BBM. To hold your gear: multiple goggles, caps, towels, sunscreen, sweats, flipflops, dry clothes, shampoo, even multiple suits. Our team did offer customized ones for sale. We used a few tote bags.
And FYI, I'm of the theory it was left behind in a cabin by a hiker.

 

[Abigail]

That backpack is a triathlon gear bag. It has many compartments for triathletes to organize their gear in. Check the reviews: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product//B004GA346W/ref=twister_dp_update?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There's an IRONMAN race in Lake Placid in a couple of weeks. Are any Clinton COs triathletes by any chance? http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/americas/ironman/lake-placid.aspx#axzz3esIAEARn

Judging from the waistlines of the ones pictured, I sort of doubt it. But that's good to know that it's for a tri-athlete. Gives some food for thought.

 

[Abigail]

:gasp: lmao at title !!!!! Captured killer says husband slay plan was Shaw-*advertiser censored*’s idea http://nypost.com/2015/07/02/captured-killer-says-husband-slay-plan-was-shaw-skanks-idea/

Ha ha! I heard one of the news agencies was toying with the idea of "Sweating Bullets" for a headline after the capture. And, I think there really was a headline, "Blood, Sweat, and Cheers"

 

[Ray_of_hope]

OT But just read on CNN that an inmate fathered several children while in Maryland prison (all with employees)! http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/07/03/baltimore-jail-scandal-kaye-dnt-ac.cnn Inmate used sex and relationships in order to gain power and control. A couple of the baby mama's even fought over him. Some DNA needs to stay imprisoned too.

 

[BUF]

If Sweat had a radio in his possession as reported & they were reporting how Matt was the one to be most afraid of & Matt this & Matt that...do you think that maybe Sweat felt a bit jilted? Is that maybe why he had been boasting that the escape was all his idea?

 

[Bobbywoo]

Am I mistaken or did Tillie deny having sex with anyone at the prison excluding her husband? I knew I should have learned how to bake, the world would be my oyster, lol!

 

[MsFacetious]

Am I mistaken or did Tillie deny having sex with anyone at the prison excluding her husband? I knew I should have learned how to bake, the world would be my oyster, lol!

Another reason I am grateful I didn't learn how to bake.
I don't want anything to do with those oysters. :snooty:

 

[Abigail]

If Sweat had a radio in his possession as reported & they were reporting how Matt was the one to be most afraid of & Matt this & Matt that...do you think that maybe Sweat felt a bit jilted? Is that maybe why he had been boasting that the escape was all his idea?

I think it WAS his idea. Always have. At least the planning aspect of it. Sweat was known in the past for his elaborate, detail oriented planning of crimes and such.

 

[Abigail]

Am I mistaken or did Tillie deny having sex with anyone at the prison excluding her husband? I knew I should have learned how to bake, the world would be my oyster, lol!

That's what she told her husband Lyle, who apparently believes her. She told LE that she had an affair with Sweat first, and later with Matt. She didn't mention any COs.